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Old 01-05-2013, 04:40 PM   #1
BigSexy
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2001 SC2
Default Parameter settings after valve body swap

The first few times of shifting (1-2 2-3) it felt a little better but after driving about 5 mins everything went back the way it was, like I never changed the valve body. I did the learn in process for less than 10 miles. Would the parameters come back to normal after driving the car a few hours/days? Should I disconnect the battery and try again or is it another problem besdies the vavle body?
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Maybe starting from the beginning might help (before replacing the valve body).

Why did you decide that a valve body was the answer? Start with the symptoms that brought you to valve body replacement.

Disconnecting the battery will reset the pcm parameters and make the xmission shift points go to factory default - beginning another learning cycle. Leave the battery connected unless you're sure relearning engine/xmission parameters will fix this otherwise you may be caught in an endless loop without passing the mileage requirements for the pcm to relearn emissions and xmission shift points.
It shouldn't take more than 50 miles of driving with a mix of street and highway cycles. If the xmission repairs didn't change anything then its likely the valve body didn't correct the original problem.
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Hard bang shift from 1-2 and 2-3 with no other problems. Did a scan and found 4 valve body solenoids were bad. I replaced all 5 then the shift was a little better but not what it should be.
2 weeks ago I was in traffic at idle speed for 1 hr. When I gave it throttle it chugged like it didn`t know what gear to take off. Once I got up to speed past 2nd gear everything was fine. Next day after driving it for a few miles it did it again and also didn`t want to go like something was slipping or no fluid or no pressure to build up.
Those are the reasons for changing the valve body. The previous owner drove it for years with the hard shift, like over 10,000 miles!
Could it be I need a new pcm?

Last edited by BigSexy; 01-05-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Perhaps starting with the engine and how it runs overall can help build a picture of your circumstances. On start up, what's idle rpm for a cold engine and after warming up? Are there any engine issues?

Have you searched threads for xmission issues for background info? Was the pressure control solenoid one of the faulty ones? Xmission fluid replaced? With the xmission valve body out, was there any measurements done to the other sensors on the xmission to eliminate them from possibly causing this problem? If the vehicle speed sensor or xmission speed sensor isn't outputting then feedback signals to the pcm would make the pcm not know when to command shifts. It may help to check every sensor used on the xmission.

There may be an intermittent sensor similar to crank position sensors posted many times here; engine heat causes some cps' to fail and kills the engine until a cool down period before the cps would allow another engine run, only to repeat as soon as the engine warms up again. Cps' failing this way are found by bench testing; measured for resistance cold, the again while immersed in boiling water, and one more time after rapping against the table a few times. Each test revealed a faulty cps when resistance values changed dramatically. Heat, cold and vibration are the real world engine environment that sensors operate in. While a sensor may read fine on a cold xmission, no one considers if the same sensor will still operate after heat and vibration of a running xmission changes one in a dynamic setting. Bench testing has limited value if ignoring the operating environment - heat and vibration.

Pcm's are blamed for many problems when its more likely that one or more sensors failed. A pcm is only as good as all the operating sensors needed to feed correct signals for a pcm to make the correct commands. While its easier to find and try another pcm, its your choice to troubleshoot by throwing parts at the car or trying to understand EFI systems and electronically controlled xmissions. Xmissions are controlled by the pcm but any faulty xmission sensor besides solenoids can cause faulty info to feed the pcm that causes incorrect shifts. Poor xmission shifts are not just valve body related. The valve body contain the solenoids that control shifts. The xmission sensors are needed for feeding crucial information so the pcm knows what speed the xmission is turning, temperature for compensating shift points, and when to command the next solenoid to shift from one gear to the next.
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Last edited by fdryer; 01-05-2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Motor is perfect! Purrs like a kitten, starts up all the time and the rpms are right. I didn`t notice what they are at but I know they`re not high or low of normal.
I just did a scan, only the air intake temp sensor comes up. Makes me wonder if the pcm is bad, the car was in a accident at one time because I notice the body panels don`t line up right and some mechanical parts were changed. If I can buy a pcm for cheap, I`d take the chance and do it.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSexy View Post
Motor is perfect! Purrs like a kitten, starts up all the time and the rpms are right. I didn`t notice what they are at but I know they`re not high or low of normal.
I just did a scan, only the air intake temp sensor comes up. Makes me wonder if the pcm is bad, the car was in a accident at one time because I notice the body panels don`t line up right and some mechanical parts were changed. If I can buy a pcm for cheap, I`d take the chance and do it.
Is this the 2001 Saturn from your profile, or an earlier pre '96 OBD1 car? I ask because intake air temp is engine code 23, where trans code 23 is no third gear.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

It`s my 01 sc2. All my gears are fine. You think the air intake sensor is causing the hard shifts?
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

I went to the parts store to do the scan. I couldn`t get a good look but I thought it was 112 but I could be wrong. I`m going back tomorrow and scan again when there is somebody that knows more. The guy that scanned it wasn`t too bright and I needed to get back home,
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

112 is the IAT and if it is set then you will get hard shifts. Possibly bad connection between connector and sensor. If you have disconnected the battery then you must have a functioning IAT before relearn will commence.

The specific code is IAT high temperature which is low resistance detected. So pinched wiring or wet connector.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
112 is the IAT and if it is set then you will get hard shifts. Possibly bad connection between connector and sensor. If you have disconnected the battery then you must have a functioning IAT before relearn will commence.

The specific code is IAT high temperature which is low resistance detected. So pinched wiring or wet connector.
I`ll do that tomorrow.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

The code was 113 IAT. I replaced it and TRIED to clear the code. Check engine light still on even after I erased the codes with a scanner. Scanner says erased with car off but when I turn it on it shows 113 agian! I also did the 50 turn on/off ignition cycles and still no luck. I have a feeling I need a PCM, they`re expensive and because it`s electrical I can`t return it if thats not the problem.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSexy View Post
The code was 113 IAT. I replaced it and TRIED to clear the code. Check engine light still on even after I erased the codes with a scanner. Scanner says erased with car off but when I turn it on it shows 113 agian! I also did the 50 turn on/off ignition cycles and still no luck. I have a feeling I need a PCM, they`re expensive and because it`s electrical I can`t return it if thats not the problem.
PCM failures are EXTREMELY rare, and given the symptoms, I wouldn't even be looking into a PCM problem until you have ruled out the more obvious/likely causes.

The circuits are tested as soon as you turn the key on, so the code will often reset immediately.

You most likely have a problem with the IAT circuit, and while replacing the IAT does rule out the IAT sensor itself, the sensor isn't the most likely cause of the problem, anyway. You need to check the condition of the circuit (wiring and connector).
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

I just pulled the PCM B fuse and still nothing. I`ll probe the IAT wire, what should it read?
All this work and I`m not putting my old valve body back in even if the valve body isn`t the problem. I realy don`t mind the hard shift, I`m just worried about it chugging or slipping like it did before I swapped the vavle body. The more throttle I give it, the harder the shift but I do notice it doesn`t shift hard as I`m coming out of a turn. The fluid does look to be normal.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

I thought you said it was code P0112 (which is set by a short circuit). P0113 sets for an open circuit, so it's a lot more likely. In short, either a wire is broken or the connector is damaged (or both). Start with the connector, then move on and check the wiring (there are only two wires, so it shouldn't be that hard, although following them may be difficult). Throwing a PCM at it will not fix anything, but will cost a lot of money, and may cause other issues.

I checked into the parameters for setting the code: it will reset as soon as the engine has been running for 10 seconds, if the reported air temperature is lower than -22 degrees F (an open circuit indicates -40 degrees F or colder). It is possible for this code to be set by driving in extremely cold temperatures, but that's not very common (especially if it's reoccurring--I doubt it's been below -22 every time you started the car.).

And yes, this definitely explains problems with the automatic transmission shifting. It is not necessarily the problem, but you won't know until after you fix it (and more than likely it is the problem).

Once you find and fix the problems, it wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the PCM fuses (or disconnect the battery cable) to reset everything. This will reset the emissions monitors, so it may cause problems if you have an emissions test coming up very soon, however, with the IAT problem you wouldn't pass emissions testing in most places, anyway.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

I`ll follow/check the wires for the IAT. I`m in Florida, we don`t have inspections. Thats why there is POSs on the road.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Quote:
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I just pulled the PCM B fuse and still nothing. I`ll probe the IAT wire, what should it read?
One wire should be ground, and the other should have (nearly) 5 volts with the key on (it may be a bit lower, depending on the internal resistance of your meter). As long as you have something close to 5V, the wire isn't broken.

Check both wires with a voltmeter first. One should have 5V (key in the run position). Then turn the key off and check the other one with an ohmmeter (check between that and a good ground, such as the ground terminal on the battery or a clean spot on the engine--it should show very low resistance). If you have power and ground, the connector is the issue. If not, check the wire that isn't doing what it's supposed to.

Note: it's very easy to damage the terminals of the connector by sticking multimeter leads in there (which would make this 10x harder to diagnose, because fixing the original problem still won't fix it). It's usually better to use a thin sharp pin to probe the connector from the back, where the wire goes in.

If you have access to a scantool with live sensor data (better than the cheap code readers most parts stores use), Saturn made a flowchart you can use to diagnose this (PM me, and I'll email it to you). However it won't be much help without a scantool, and it's often easier to just test it with a multimeter, anyway.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

The IAT is direct to the PCM, just like the ECTS. A 113 is high resistance as stated and that really points to a failed connector.
A 220 ohm 1/4 w resistor can be inserted into the connector and that will clear the code for test purposes. Live data is the best bet. Check sensor resistance at the sensor, pin to pin.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

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that really points to a failed connector.
That has been my experience, as well. There doesn't seem to be an aftermarket source for those connectors (which is odd--NAPA sells connectors for many other components). However, they are easily sourced from a parts yard. A dealer may be able to order one (although it may only be listed as an ECTS connector (same thing)).

You can use a two-pin connector from many computer motherboards (for the front panel buttons), as a temporary solution, but those are not sealed so corrosion will effect the readings sooner or later and can cause odd driveability problems (which can be hard to diagnose, because high resistance only sets a check engine light when it gets very bad).
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSexy View Post
The code was 113 IAT. I replaced it and TRIED to clear the code. Check engine light still on even after I erased the codes with a scanner. Scanner says erased with car off but when I turn it on it shows 113 agian! I also did the 50 turn on/off ignition cycles and still no luck. I have a feeling I need a PCM, they`re expensive and because it`s electrical I can`t return it if thats not the problem.
I just finished changing the valve body and input and output shaft nuts on the 2000 Saturn I just bought and other than a few mildly harsh shifts in the learn in phase it is shifting great. To bring this back to this discussion I am also pulling a P0113 code at the moment but again I had no problem with the learn in. (not sure if it has anything to do with the spectre air filter that the previous owner installed thus bypassing the original air intake or not) . I also have a 301 and 507 likely pointing to a bad intake manifold gasket, but that is another issue all together.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Parameter settings after valve body swap

Since you did not mention that you changed the input shaft nut and that the previous owner had driven it with the slam for some time I would think that that would be a distinct possibility that the ISN has gotten loose. Should still make sure but if you decide to go that route (it isn't too difficult, few hours if your mechanically inclined, couple days if you are highly cautious). Here is the page where you can find the input shaft holding tool that user Hein made : http://www.saturnfans.com/classified...uct/3767/cat/6
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