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Old 10-12-2012, 12:01 AM   #1
dougalldc3000
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1999 SL2
Default 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Hey everyone-

I have a '99 SL2 5spd that doesn't start up right away after driving awhile and turning off. I have to turn key off and on multiple times and floor the accelerator pedal to eventually start. After a couple repetitions it starts up normally with just clutch in. So it's definitely fuel delivery. I have replaced every part of the starting system (yes, every part), ignition module, coils, spark plug wires, spark plugs (need to replace again soon though), starter, alternator, battery (eventually needs replacement as well), crankshaft position sensor, etc etc. I also have replaced the fuel filter. So i think its the fuel pump b/c it's definitely a problem with delivery, but when the key is turned to the on position (not engine on) I can hear the pump start up... Is it in fact the pump? What do I need to do here? I wouldn't think it has to do with the injectors or lines...

Thanks for your help.

...
'99 SL2 5-spd DOHC 1.9L 4 cyl w/ lots of mods
'13 Dodge Dart 6-spd 1.4L MultiAir Turbo

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Old 10-12-2012, 05:00 AM   #2
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Flooring the gas pedal may be the only hint of flooding issues - an issue if your engine still uses the original coolant sensor that failed. If the original round nosed plastic sensor is there, replace it immediately with a flat nosed brass one to correct flooding issues.

The faulty one causes rich and/or flooding issues during cold start up. Holding the gas pedal down tells the pcm to shut off injectors while starting to clear the engine of excess fuel and allow a sputtering start up.

The fuel pump runs for 2-seconds at ignition ON time but does not flood the engine - the pump is pressurizing the fuel lines.

Starting/engine running allows the EFI system to pulse the injectors to feed fuel into each cylinder.

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Old 10-12-2012, 06:42 AM   #3
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1995 SL2
Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

^+1.
Hard starting with a warm engine is a classic symptom of a bad ECTS. If it has not been replaced it shoudl be, even if not yet failed, as a preventive measure. Many threads onthis. See the first few sticky threads in the How-to Library forum. With the failed ECTS the PCM foten thinks the engine is cold and feeds too much fuel to give a reliable start.

Another sometimes indication of a bad ECTS is that the temp gauge tehds to run low, even in when stuck in very slow/not moving traffic with the A/C off.

If the ECTS is known to be good, then move on in the diagnostuics proccess.

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Old 10-12-2012, 10:26 AM   #4
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1999 SL2
Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Funny you say all say that because I replaced it maybe a year ago or so (it turned out it didn't even need replacement as well...) What's next? I definitely still think its fuel. I mean, for example, I drove home for 3.5 hours, stopped at home, then later on I went to turn on the car, and nothing happened. No response, no cranks, no turns, nothing. Then I turn it off and on a couple times (flooring it at first but usually getting nothing) then eventually I can turn it on normally with just the clutch in... What's going on?

...
'99 SL2 5-spd DOHC 1.9L 4 cyl w/ lots of mods
'13 Dodge Dart 6-spd 1.4L MultiAir Turbo

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Old 10-12-2012, 11:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Descriptions can be misunderstood and/or misleading, depending on how an issue is described.

Are you describing an engine running issue with the engine already running or a starting issue with silence or 'clicking' sounds from the engine but not starting at all? These are two different issues.

If you are trying to describe a no-start, no starter sounds, dead silence issue when the ignition switch is turned to the START position then this is a; battery, battery cables, connections, and starter problem. A silent no-start issue can be anything related to the starting system that begins with troubleshooting from the battery and ending at the starter with everything in-between.

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Sorry if it's a lil confusing. What I'm saying is that I'll stop the car after driving awhile, then a short period after I'll try to start up the car (clutch in, trying to start normally) and there is absolutely no noise whatsoever from the engine or battery or anything, not even a click I don't think - maybe that is a battery problem after all...? After a couple times still trying to start it, I turn the key to the off position, then back to the ON position (no engine running). Usually after a couple times doing this, I am able to hear the engine trying to start (but not starting) or I can turn it on without flooring gas pedal or anything but just normally. I thought that might be a fuel issue because maybe the pressure would be down and the more I start it the more the fuel pressure eventually builds up and starts the car... Any thoughts?

...
'99 SL2 5-spd DOHC 1.9L 4 cyl w/ lots of mods
'13 Dodge Dart 6-spd 1.4L MultiAir Turbo

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Sounds like a starter heat-stroke problem or a charging system problem.

Was your starter new, or a rebuilt unit? Inspect your engine and chassis to battery negative connections and verify that there is minimal corrosion.

What is the state of your alternator? >13V at idle with lights, blower motor and defroster (if applicable) on?

If you don't have any troubles while the engine is already running (sputtering, jerking, trouble codes), I would rule out your fuel problems.

...
Cables and wires almost never fail; the terminations do. -- www.prussianmotors.com

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:54 PM   #8
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1999 SL2
Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

I think my starter was re-manufactured, so yes I presume that means rebuilt. I'll check it out now, I'll see too if there's a battery problem. I also replaced my alternator so I don't think that's an issue but how do I check to see if it's bad? Engine diag tool? Voltage meter?

...
'99 SL2 5-spd DOHC 1.9L 4 cyl w/ lots of mods
'13 Dodge Dart 6-spd 1.4L MultiAir Turbo

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Old 10-12-2012, 01:00 PM   #9
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2001 SC1
Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

A digital multimeter (volt meter, more specifically) will do the job. You want to measure the voltage across the the battery terminals with the engine running and current-drawing devices on, like the blower motor and lights.

Depending on the quality of the remanufactured unit, it could be a starter problem. Hitting the solenoid with a 2x4 a few times sometimes coerces the connections to operate correctly for one start or so. If the whacking method works, you'll know it's your starter.

...
Cables and wires almost never fail; the terminations do. -- www.prussianmotors.com

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Old 10-12-2012, 02:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougalldc3000 View Post
Sorry if it's a lil confusing. What I'm saying is that I'll stop the car after driving awhile, then a short period after I'll try to start up the car (clutch in, trying to start normally) and there is absolutely no noise whatsoever from the engine or battery or anything, not even a click I don't think - maybe that is a battery problem after all...? After a couple times still trying to start it, I turn the key to the off position, then back to the ON position (no engine running). Usually after a couple times doing this, I am able to hear the engine trying to start (but not starting) or I can turn it on without flooring gas pedal or anything but just normally. I thought that might be a fuel issue because maybe the pressure would be down and the more I start it the more the fuel pressure eventually builds up and starts the car... Any thoughts?
Its understandable now. As mentioned, this is most likely a starting problem that's related to the battery, battery cables, connections, and starter. Begin with being sure it isn't battery, battery cable or their connections before concluding a starter fault. A battery over 4yr old should be load tested at any auto store selling batteries while battery cables should be examined for severe corrosion that interferes with power being distributed. Starters require the most current and relies on the best battery/cable connections otherwise a failing battery or corroded battery cable(s) will not allow any starter to run. Seeing lights and radio work means absolutely nothing since they don't suck current as much as starters do. Radios and light can work of a single strand of copper wire but this wire will burn up immediately when trying to supply 50-150 amps to a starter. The battery and cables work together to supply all the current a starter needs. Less than 10 amps are used for lights and radio.

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Old 10-12-2012, 04:28 PM   #11
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1999 SL2
Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Definitely not a battery problem. Battery was replaced a year ago with starter. I forgot to mention that my issue is episodic, sometimes I am able to start the car up again normally and sometimes I need to turn key off and on and floor gas pedal to start up again. Does that still mean a possible starter problem? I'm gonna get a volt meter ASAP and get back to you

...
'99 SL2 5-spd DOHC 1.9L 4 cyl w/ lots of mods
'13 Dodge Dart 6-spd 1.4L MultiAir Turbo

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Old 10-12-2012, 05:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

Yes, that is still possibly a starter problem. Heat-stroke is very intermittent.

...
Cables and wires almost never fail; the terminations do. -- www.prussianmotors.com

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Old 10-12-2012, 05:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: 99 SL2 not starting after driving awhile? (Fuel issue)

There's still some confusion from your descriptions.

1-When the coolant sensor was replaced, is the connector free of corrosion? This is important as corrosion on the very small connector pins/sockets can cause the EFI system to interpret this as a very cold engine (higher resistance than normal) and apply more fuel than necessary, sometimes causing a flooding condition with several starts.

2-A completely silent no-start condition that occurs randomly still points to the power circuits; battery, battery cables, their connections, and the starter. No one can assume anything and all these items must be addressed in logical order as listed. Unless you bought a 5/6/7/8 year warranted battery, anything less can be suspect and should be tested, either with a multimeter or from the store that sold you the battery. Standing voltage must be at least 12.1 volts before the engine is started, at least 13.3v with the engine running. Anything less means a battery or alternator issue (if the idling engine/alternator isn't outputting >13.3v.

3-Unless told otherwise, battery cables must be examined, disconnected from the battery if necessary to examine cable terminals up close for corrosion preventing electrical connections. Cables cannot be assumed to be in good condition by visual sight alone. The heavy insulation covering cable side terminals also cover hidden corrosion and cannot be seen unless these covers are peeled back to expose wiring. One member has already found a broken side terminal after many posts - only by physically disconnecting battery cables will anyone actually see the extent of hidden corrosion. Look in the Vue forum for a recent post with pictures of the broken Red side cable terminal showing a half broken battery bolt compared to the negative side terminal bolt. Discussing is one thing, actually performing physical maintenance sometimes reveals what discussions won't show until performing the suggestions given.

4-Once battery, battery cables and their connections are eliminated, attention can be turned to the starter. Any starter, rebuilt or new, is never assumed to be in perfect operating condition. New ones fail out out of the box, rebuilt ones fail too, the same way. Assuming anything will easily mislead anyone. "Trust but verify".

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