SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-16-2012, 02:57 PM   #1
edefisio
New Member
edefisio is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Default changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

I just changed the engine coolant temperature sensor on my 2002 SL2, due to intermittently not starting and based on several posts here. After i changed it, the SES light came on and now the temp guage is not moving at all, though the car did start and seems to be running normal enough. The connector looked to be in good shape, in fact i didn't see any visible problems with the original ects upon removal. Any ideas?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to edefisio's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help edefisio reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
edefisio is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-16-2012, 05:27 PM   #2
campus189
Member
campus189 is on a distinguished road
 
campus189's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 397

1997 SL1
1997 SL2
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

Quote:
Originally Posted by edefisio View Post
I just changed the engine coolant temperature sensor on my 2002 SL2, due to intermittently not starting and based on several posts here. After i changed it, the SES light came on and now the temp guage is not moving at all, though the car did start and seems to be running normal enough. The connector looked to be in good shape, in fact i didn't see any visible problems with the original ects upon removal. Any ideas?
I take it you visually inspected the connector well?
Are the wires spliced or have electrical tape on them?

...
1997 Saturn SL2 144,000 Miles
1997 Saturn SL1 254,000 Miles
1997 Saturn SL1 157,000 Miles
1996 Saturn SL1 97,000 Miles

Also known as FiremanCV on YouTube

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to campus189's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help campus189 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
campus189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 06:07 PM   #3
edefisio
New Member
edefisio is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

Hi, thanks for the reply...

yes the connector looked fine. no corrosion or anything abnormal.

no electrical tape or signs that it has been replaced before.

The first time I started the car after replacing the sensor, the temp guage pegged all the way to the right for about 15 seconds, then it dropped all the way to the left and the "service engine soon" light came on. and that is where it is stuck at.

is it possible that i got a bad sensor from the auto parts store? I also tried flipping the connector 180 degrees in case that was a problem, and it seemed to snap into place fine, but no change in the gauge.

thanks for any ideas you may have.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to edefisio's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help edefisio reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
edefisio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 07:11 PM   #4
magtec
Advanced Member
magtec will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 807

1995 SW2
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

Quote:
Originally Posted by edefisio View Post
is it possible that i got a bad sensor from the auto parts store?
yeah.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to magtec's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help magtec reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
magtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 07:15 PM   #5
dakota1820
Member
dakota1820 will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: st clair mo
Posts: 492

2002 SL
1995 SL2
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

could have broke the tip loose from the brass portion of the sensor

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to dakota1820's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help dakota1820 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
dakota1820 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 06:22 AM   #6
DonP
Master Member
DonP will become famous soon enoughDonP will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 3,582
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

You also could have received the wrong sensor (not an ECTS).
The 2002 should have had the brass tip ECTS and that is an unlikely failure.
What codes are set?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DonP's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DonP reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DonP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 03:32 PM   #7
edefisio
New Member
edefisio is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

yes the original was a brass tip and didn't appear damaged. I changed it figuring it would be a low cost way to see if that would solve my intermittent problem of turning over but not firing. A mechanic had changed the crank position sensor for this same issue a few weeks ago but it started doing it again a couple weeks later. Hopefully I can put my old sensor back to get the temperature guage working again. I will try and post the codes later. Thanks for the input.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to edefisio's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help edefisio reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
edefisio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 04:14 PM   #8
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,003
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

Examine the original sensor and carefully inspect the two pins to be sure they're straight and the wiring harness connector isn't damaged. Now connect the old sensor back on without putting it back into the cylinder head. Just let it hang somewhere. Pull the pcm B+ fuse for a minute to reset the pcm and replace the fuse. Now turn on the ignition and observe the temperature gauge. Hopefully the needle pegging was a simple short that didn't do any harm and resetting the pcm clears any stuck electrons not wanting to move until all power is disconnected.

An electrical short here would be electronically interpreted by the temperature circuit in the pcm as the engine being extremely HOT as in volcano hot. The thermistor would be mistakenly sensing extremely hot temps as very low resistance or a short is the equivalent of a melting engine - the temperature gauge needle pinned all the way to the right even though the engine is cold. Electronically the short is seen as a HOT HOT engine. If no electronic damage occurred internally to the pcm then removing pcm power should allow a nice reset to calm it down for reuse with a correctly connected coolant sensor. The original sensor wasn't the cause of your hard starting problems. Its something else.

Fix this issue first and then continue with troubleshooting other sensors.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 10:33 PM   #9
edefisio
New Member
edefisio is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

OK, i re-connected the "original" sensor without inserting it into the cylinder head, reset the PCM as you suggested, and turned the ignition on and the temperature gauge came up to about 1/4, so that is a good sign and I guess would imply that i got a bad sensor or wrong sensor from the parts store?

Both the original sensor and the connector looked good with no bent pins or visible signs of damage.

I will need to wait until the car cools down to put the original sensor back into the cylinder head.

As an FYI... The code with the "NEW" sensor is P0117 - "engine coolant temperature circuit" - Low Input.

Thank you very much for the advice!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to edefisio's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help edefisio reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
edefisio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 11:06 PM   #10
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,003
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

Hey! You did good! I do things like that. We call this type of mistake 'destructive testing' to inadvertently see how far things can go bad without breaking anything. Since you didn't break anything like the pcm, back to the problem you started with. Forget the coolant sensor saga. Move on.

There was a recent post about two different sensors, one for the coolant, the other for air temperature and a member was given the air temperature sensor resulting in incorrect readings when used as the coolant sensor.

Intermittent starting needs more background info; last time plugs were replaced, ignition system cleaned of corrosion, spark tests, fuel pressure test, etc..

Last edited by fdryer; 09-17-2012 at 11:12 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 07:00 AM   #11
DonP
Master Member
DonP will become famous soon enoughDonP will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 3,582
 

1995 SL2
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

P0117 - This DTC detects a continuous short to ground in the ECT signal circuit or the ECT sensor.

Could be youlgot a bad sensor, or a temp gauge sender (used in '95 and earlier models) which is just that, but can be installed as if it were an ECTS. Do you still have the make/part number of it?

Any other driveability symptoms beyond occasional hard starting?

When you say not starting, I presume you mean it would crank but not start.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DonP's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DonP reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DonP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 09:03 AM   #12
magtec
Advanced Member
magtec will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 807

1995 SW2
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

Quote:
Originally Posted by edefisio View Post
...intermittent problem of turning over but not firing. A mechanic had changed the crank position sensor for this same issue a few weeks ago but it started doing it again a couple weeks later.
the new crank sensor may have failed.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to magtec's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help magtec reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
magtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 12:03 PM   #13
edefisio
New Member
edefisio is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

OK, i have the ECTS issue behind me as it didn't help and only made matters worse with the shorting problem. I am back to the original sensor.

So the original problem is that the engine will crank and it sounds like it starts to run but immediately dies (just wont idle up). It happens randomly. And if you try enough times and maybe wait a little bit, it will eventually fire up.

Maybe the new crank position sensor went bad? It did go 2-3 weeks without a problem after the new crank sensor was installed, would there be something else causing the sensor to fail?

The car had a complete tune up from the (used to be) Saturn Dealer about 20K miles ago at which time the plugs were changed. I don't know if the ignition would have been cleaned or not and I dont think any fuel pressure tests have ever been performed.

When the car does finally start it seems to run just fine, no idle issues.

thanks everyone for all the input.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to edefisio's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help edefisio reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
edefisio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 12:42 PM   #14
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,003
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed ECTS now temp guage not woorking

Well, a fuel or ignition issue are left to troubleshoot. Ignition can be as simple as a spark test; check for spark on each plug while cranking the engine. Remove the fuel pump fuse or pump relay to prevent flooding the engine with multiple starts. When plugs are removed, check them for raw fuel - this serves to tell you whether or not fuel is injected. If spark is consistent then the cps is fine. Replace the fuse or relay for a fuel test.

Intermittent spark can mean failure of the cps (not likely if new) or ignition control module. Coil failure affect only two plugs at a time. Junk yard ignition parts are cheaper than new and work just as well.

A fuel pressure check is needed (fuel filter replaced?); turn on the ignition and listen for the fuel pump running for 2-seconds (faint hum/hiss sounds), locate the fuel rail test valve, remove the cap to reveal the schrader valve, cover loosely with a rag while depressing the valve stem expecting fuel to spray out. No fuel or a dribble means a fuel issue; fuel filter, fuse, relay, wiring to pump, pump, pump ground wire. Fuel spray means fuel and pressure are available to the injectors.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Temp Gauge Was In The Red Today...Just Changed ECTS BassHypnotist S-Series General 11 03-30-2012 10:07 AM
06 2.4L, temp guage at zero briansnoopy Ion Tech 7 04-19-2006 08:49 PM
wiring outside temp guage 94SL2ndOwner S-Series Tech 8 05-14-2005 03:42 PM
Outside Temp Guage 94SL2ndOwner S-Series General 0 05-06-2005 01:02 PM
HELP!! Glow face guage install! Temp guage error! SpeedySL1 Suggestion Box 2 04-01-2004 03:05 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:22 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.