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Old 07-28-2013, 01:04 PM   #61
jimmie504
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

You have the wrong information. That is a J1 and J2 connection The J1 connector go to the TCM, the J2 64 pin connects to the ECU. You have the wrong information.

The other diagram is correct. You do not have the Engine Control Module that that schematic matches.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:10 PM   #62
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Correction, Malibu. It has a Powertrain System, which is a combination of both, TCM and ECU combined. You are place a module on top of a module. look in your engine and on the front between the radio and motor, sitting next to the throttle body you will find the Vue's engine control module. Man, I am sorry you didn't see that.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #63
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

It says right at the top of the diagram Saturn ION and they match the parts I pulled for a Saturn ION.

I sent the "Ion 4T45E Connectors.pdf" and "Ion C100.PDF" both Saturn Ion documents.

hopefully I didn't click the wrong ones when I sent them??

Joe

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:20 PM   #64
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

My ECU for the motor is bolted on the motor on the 2003 Vue I have, It has two large connections like the old TCM did.

The TCM (now and old) was bolted over near and above the Steering column. Just behind the fuse box BS thing they created. What a pain it is to get that thing in and out btw, who ever came out with that idea should be roughen up a little.

I know some cars (based on all that looking in salvage yards) keep the ECU and TCM real close together, like how the Saturn Ion does. They were right next to each other.

Joe

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:25 PM   #65
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmie504 View Post
this diagram is a 2005 saturn Ion 4t45

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znet...3f80242c8c.gif
Thanks but I'm not sure how this helps, no pin outs and it has only half the wires I have on the TCM connector, none of the ones going to the transmission, and only shows one set of LAN wires (which I have two).

So maybe I'm seriously miss-reading this.

Joe

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Old 08-08-2013, 08:23 PM   #66
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hi I did what you said but i was wanting to know if i use j1 on the original 03 tcm or do i take it out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03vuevti2af23 View Post
I have done a couple of these swaps and have never used an Alero PCM.

These vehicle communicate with GM LAN data wires that exchange information between the modules and the BCM.

I have used 05-07 Saturn Ion TCM in my applications. I have also done the swap numerous times with the Aisin AF-23, (you need to use the 02-03 Vue V-6 TCM for that one). Essential what I did was get a complete 2005-2007 Saturn Ion engine wiring harness. You have to carefully split the harness and isolate the wires for main trans plug, neutral safety switch plug, speed sensor plug, GM LAN wires, (two sets circuit 1500 and 1501 tan and tan with white stripe), and the wires associated that plug into the fuse block connector.

With this you must remove the CVT wiring from the Vue harness in the same manner. The wires at the fuse block connector C2 are the ones that power the TCM, neutral safety, and starter crank signal. You must look at the pinout and place the wires from the replacement harness in the Vue fuse block connector corresponding with the appropriate circuit. The circuit numbers are slightly different between the Ion and Vue, but the color and function are the same. The two GM LAN wires, (Tan and Tan/white), from the VUE ECM connect to The TCM and exchange data between them, and the second set go from the TCM through the ABS module and onto the BCM. The connector pins at the TCM suck and are very brittle, so I have cut, spliced, soldered, and heat shrank the GM LAN wires with no problems.

Once completed properly the whole set up works with no warning lights. The only issue is in the way the Keyword Serial Data circuit operates on the Vue Vs. the Ion. On the Vue that circuit travels through the TCM and the Ion does not. I simply bypassed the wiring through the ECM to ABS and BCM and have not had an issue.


So to answer everyone's questions yes you can use the TCM from an ION, Cobalt, G5, etc. No PCM,s here.



This information is offered as-is with no warranty or guaranty it will work for you. I am not responsible for damage to you vehicle, yourself, or your marriage. Good luck.

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Old 08-08-2013, 08:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

I just done the swap with an 01 saturn L series 4t40e and ion tcm and hhr wiring harness,I've got it all done except for some wires coming out of the j1 plug from the 03 vue harness,I have 2 blk w wht stripe,1 red 1 orange,1 blue and 1 brown w wht stripe,don't know if they connect to the following wires or not that come from the big plugin on trans on the pnp,they are 1 grn,1 pink,and 1 is black with white stripe,also i have a bunch of red wires forgot how many 1red wire is pos voltage and a brown acc wire,i can probably figure all the reds and the brown,but i need some help on the others , any help would be much appreciated.

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Old 08-13-2013, 01:35 PM   #68
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quick question.... Now that there's a solution available, how much is it all the work and parts worth? I mean, is it cheaper and a much better solution than having a transmission rebuild??

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Old 08-16-2013, 07:23 PM   #69
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Yes it is well worth it, considering the cvt will cost you thousands just to rebuild and then you cant trust it to go anywere mine had only 900 miles on it and was working perfectly then all of a sudden the belt broke leaving my wife and 2 grandsons stranded in the middle of a busy intersection,when the belt breaks its like just sitting there in neutral,all you need is a transmission, wiring harness,tcm,ecm,driver side axle from a 05 thru 07 ion,cobalt,cavalier,G5,L200,and you can get all this from pick-n=pull or pull-a-part for less than 300 dollars then talk your son in to swithing it all out for you and you got a dependable 2.2 and 4t45e trans that you can drive anywre withuot having to worry about walking back home.

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:02 PM   #70
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hi all ,I've been doing some research on the 05 and 06 saturn ion tcm's and found that their totally different,the 05 has a keyword serial data wire and the 06 does not, that's why I could not get the 06 ion and wiring harness to work with my 03 vue ecm and bcm,what a waste of time and money,now I will have to start all over with an 04 or 05 tcm and matching wiring harness,and another thing i found that saturn changed, in 01 the L series transmission has an N wire on the round plug were the 06 does not, oh well maybe I'll have to change the transmission too to a newer one but I'm not giving up I'll drive that thing or die trying.

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Old 09-06-2013, 08:02 AM   #71
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hi, jimmy504,what is required to be able to reprogram the tcm,ecm, or bcm, do you have to have a lot of equipment to do this,Just wondering because a man could make some money doing this because GM dealership's do not have a clue, all they can do is reinstall original software specific to vin number's?

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Old 09-27-2013, 07:00 PM   #72
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

You will need to change the ECM, BCM, and TCM to work in there. It is a lot of work because in the way the connections from one module to the next is routed.
The TCM runs to the ecm and the ecm connects to the bcm. Not as in a saturn vue operation ecm, tcm, then bcm. There is no reprogramming that. It all involves your serial data and CAN data connections which communicates between the module.

Last edited by jimmie504; 09-27-2013 at 07:09 PM..

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Old 10-01-2013, 10:49 AM   #73
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hi all here is what i have done so far i used a 4t40e transmission out of an 01 L series an 06 ion tcm and an 05 hhr wiring harness, car starts and runs and shifts through all the gears,, if i run the rpms up around 33 35 hundred rpms ,the rpms gauge works, the speedometer does not work anymore and the low power light,check engine light,and the one with the wrench is on,I could not get the dealership to even hook it up to their machine to check or do any programming, so i went to pull-a-part and bought the complete wiring harness from headlight to tail light,bcm,tcm, and pcm and installed it,checked for codes and there was none,tried to start it and all i got was a series of clicks,jumped the starter solinoid wire to battery and it started right up ran perfct for 3 seconds every time ,done the passlock thing several times no change, the security light would go out 3 to for seconds after key on,no flashng so that was'nt the problem,the radio worked some times ,the wisheild wipers come on somtime by themselfs lots of weird things,i quess i got a bad bcm,so i pulled it all back out,putting the 06 tcm and hhr wiring harness,with the original vue bcm ,ecm,so at least i can drive it to find some place or some body to do the programming,Jimmie what needs to be programmed, the ecm, tcm,or bcm.would you charge me to do this if i take the module out and mail it to you,I used 03vuevti2af23,s instructions to do the swap because he made it sound so simple but he want answer me back on any questions

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Old 10-22-2013, 07:54 AM   #74
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03vuevti2af23 View Post
I have done a couple of these swaps and have never used an Alero PCM.

These vehicle communicate with GM LAN data wires that exchange information between the modules and the BCM.

I have used 05-07 Saturn Ion TCM in my applications. I have also done the swap numerous times with the Aisin AF-23, (you need to use the 02-03 Vue V-6 TCM for that one). Essential what I did was get a complete 2005-2007 Saturn Ion engine wiring harness. You have to carefully split the harness and isolate the wires for main trans plug, neutral safety switch plug, speed sensor plug, GM LAN wires, (two sets circuit 1500 and 1501 tan and tan with white stripe), and the wires associated that plug into the fuse block connector.

With this you must remove the CVT wiring from the Vue harness in the same manner. The wires at the fuse block connector C2 are the ones that power the TCM, neutral safety, and starter crank signal. You must look at the pinout and place the wires from the replacement harness in the Vue fuse block connector corresponding with the appropriate circuit. The circuit numbers are slightly different between the Ion and Vue, but the color and function are the same. The two GM LAN wires, (Tan and Tan/white), from the VUE ECM connect to The TCM and exchange data between them, and the second set go from the TCM through the ABS module and onto the BCM. The connector pins at the TCM suck and are very brittle, so I have cut, spliced, soldered, and heat shrank the GM LAN wires with no problems.

Once completed properly the whole set up works with no warning lights. The only issue is in the way the Keyword Serial Data circuit operates on the Vue Vs. the Ion. On the Vue that circuit travels through the TCM and the Ion does not. I simply bypassed the wiring through the ECM to ABS and BCM and have not had an issue.


So to answer everyone's questions yes you can use the TCM from an ION, Cobalt, G5, etc. No PCM,s here.



This information is offered as-is with no warranty or guaranty it will work for you. I am not responsible for damage to you vehicle, yourself, or your marriage. Good luck.
Hi, 03vuevti2af23 i was wandering if this will work with a 4t40e transmission in an 03 vue?

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Old 10-23-2013, 08:21 PM   #75
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

I must say I am not impressed (more like dissapointed) with a few members in this forum; specifically with members that have succeeded at doing this swap but hesitate to share with others; There are some of you here that just boast on being able to do this swap but do not give clear instructions on how to do this. I have been a mechanic for over 30 years and I am not opposed to thinking outside the box and performing modifications on vehicles and experimenting with them in order to make some repairs simpler and faster. I have written several STEP-BY-STEP write ups on how to do various repairs and modifications on many other brands and models of cars I have worked on. I have helped countless people with their problems and questions without expecting monetary compensation. I have gained lots of knowledge and avoided many a headaches, thanks to members of other forums; for that reason, I always share my successes and experience with anyone that needs it. I purchased 2 VUE's with dead CVT's, but I swapped them with stickshift transmission by simply purchasing two wrecked, but complete, standard Vue vehicles and using them as donors, so the swaps were straightforward and I did not require any help from this or any other forum. So I joined this forum to do a write-up on a manual swap, but found that someone had already done this. Since I keep finding Vue's with the infamous dead CVT's, I decided to check this forum to see if I could find any info on swapping in an automatic transmission from another Vue, Ion, Cobalt, Malibu or a combination of vehicles that share the 2.2L4 engine. But what I have found, are just people that claim how easy and straightforward this swap is, and will only give vague details, and will not post a complete write up with parts lists, step-by-step instructions, etc; But rather use this forum to advertise their services or information for a price. That is NOT what this forum is intended for, there are other sites for that. After searching and lurking for a couple weeks now, I have not been able to find such a write-up; if one does exist, then I apologize in advance.
I will not attempt this swap until I find some definitive information on the subject from someone that is actually willing to share with the rest of us, without expecting monetary compensation; That is, after all, the main purpose of a vehicle-specific forum such as this one. For now, in case I decide to buy another VUE, I will just make them into working 5-speed manual vehicles.
I have lots of information and write-up for solving major engine problems on plagued Mazda 6, Mazda Tribute engines, Ford Escape problems and solutions, I have a complete write up on overhauling the notorious Nissan Altima 2.5L engine, Nissan Maxima, Lexus RX300, Mercedes Sprinter, Mercedes ML320, Chrysler 3.5L, Toyota 1.8L, and information on several other vehicles that many people have been able to use, and have expressed deep gratitude for the FREE information I was able to provide; and for the extensive research and time I spent on posting numerous pictures and write-ups.

If anyone has successfully done this swap, because at this point such a write-up I cannot find, please take some time to go ahead and post a write-up, with pictures so others can benefit from your efforts; especially for the sake of the members I am reading about, that have used some hard-earned money, and spent many hours away from their family, just to have a non-working VUE paperweight sitting in their driveway.

To me, a sincere and heartfelt "Thank you" is much more gratifying than a few dollars I could get for selling this information or for offering my services; If you want to advertise your information or services, please do it at another site, not on a forum. I have gained many true friends through car forums, and have gained lots of knowledge from other members; I only hope that I've been able to contribute to forums as much as I have gained from them, at the very least.

Last edited by bigbluebus; 10-23-2013 at 08:31 PM..

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Old 10-25-2013, 12:32 PM   #76
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Great first post...

I think I like you already

...
2007 STS-V
2006 STS 1SC
2005 STS 1SE MRC, ACC, HUD

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Old 10-26-2013, 10:08 AM   #77
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

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Originally Posted by 3RedLines View Post
Great first post...

I think I like you already
Thanks. I felt someone needed to point things out, even though it may not make a bit of difference.

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Old 12-07-2013, 09:47 AM   #78
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluebus View Post
If anyone has successfully done this swap, because at this point such a write-up I cannot find, please take some time to go ahead and post a write-up, with pictures so others can benefit from your efforts; especially for the sake of the members I am reading about, that have used some hard-earned money, and spent many hours away from their family, just to have a non-working VUE paperweight sitting in their driveway.
bigbluebus, I was trying to do that when I also followed 03vuevti2af23's instructions, but my vehicle does not have the ABS, where I believe he found a "backdoor" for the serial data link. That was why my posts had pictures of cooler mods and wiring harnesses and such. As said in previous posts, I've gotten lots of help off this site. Without far2grumpy's input, I wouldn't have made it as far as I did. I have a blue paperweight in the driveway, as you state, and am at the point of trying to get a complete harness/PCM/BCM from '06-'07 Vue. I did do the Ion harness and TCM, and the engine starts, trans does shift but only at 3000 RPM, and of course the unit is in power reduction due to lack of communication between the TCM and BCM. I've put 20 miles or so on it around town, can't really tell you for sure, as neither the speedo nor the power steering works due to previously stated no communication between TCM and BCM. I truly considered adding a GPS and driving as is (myself only), but thought better of it as I do not know if all of the trans pressures are being applied properly, and really don't want to wreck the trans as an experiment.

I simply do not have the time and space available right now to tear the interior out, go to the junkyard, do that same on a donor, outlay MORE cash, and install and hope that it works. I am going to try this at some time, just because all of the drivetrain components are in place and "functioning", and I started with a $1600 car, and have stuck another $2700 so far into it, first fixing the original CVT, and now this. We drove it 6,000 miles. Not really a cheap second car as originally intended. The limit I have set for myself is $500. That is it.

I drive a manual Vue 135 miles per day, and it works fine, respectable MPG for the size/price, so I know what they are capable of, but the correct system must be in place for all to work properly.

If/when I get to it, I will be sure to document it.

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Old 01-19-2014, 01:14 PM   #79
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinewannabe View Post
bigbluebus, i was trying to do that when i also followed 03vuevti2af23's instructions, but my vehicle does not have the abs, where i believe he found a "backdoor" for the serial data link. That was why my posts had pictures of cooler mods and wiring harnesses and such. As said in previous posts, i've gotten lots of help off this site. Without far2grumpy's input, i wouldn't have made it as far as i did. I have a blue paperweight in the driveway, as you state, and am at the point of trying to get a complete harness/pcm/bcm from '06-'07 vue. I did do the ion harness and tcm, and the engine starts, trans does shift but only at 3000 rpm, and of course the unit is in power reduction due to lack of communication between the tcm and bcm. I've put 20 miles or so on it around town, can't really tell you for sure, as neither the speedo nor the power steering works due to previously stated no communication between tcm and bcm. I truly considered adding a gps and driving as is (myself only), but thought better of it as i do not know if all of the trans pressures are being applied properly, and really don't want to wreck the trans as an experiment.

I simply do not have the time and space available right now to tear the interior out, go to the junkyard, do that same on a donor, outlay more cash, and install and hope that it works. I am going to try this at some time, just because all of the drivetrain components are in place and "functioning", and i started with a $1600 car, and have stuck another $2700 so far into it, first fixing the original cvt, and now this. We drove it 6,000 miles. Not really a cheap second car as originally intended. The limit i have set for myself is $500. That is it.

I drive a manual vue 135 miles per day, and it works fine, respectable mpg for the size/price, so i know what they are capable of, but the correct system must be in place for all to work properly.

If/when i get to it, i will be sure to document it.

i got mine running and shifting (high rpm) too just the same way your vue does, no more speedometer and no tachometer. I never conected the brown wire (acc voltage) did you do it?

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Old 01-19-2014, 01:16 PM   #80
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinewannabe View Post
bigbluebus, i was trying to do that when i also followed 03vuevti2af23's instructions, but my vehicle does not have the abs, where i believe he found a "backdoor" for the serial data link. That was why my posts had pictures of cooler mods and wiring harnesses and such. As said in previous posts, i've gotten lots of help off this site. Without far2grumpy's input, i wouldn't have made it as far as i did. I have a blue paperweight in the driveway, as you state, and am at the point of trying to get a complete harness/pcm/bcm from '06-'07 vue. I did do the ion harness and tcm, and the engine starts, trans does shift but only at 3000 rpm, and of course the unit is in power reduction due to lack of communication between the tcm and bcm. I've put 20 miles or so on it around town, can't really tell you for sure, as neither the speedo nor the power steering works due to previously stated no communication between tcm and bcm. I truly considered adding a gps and driving as is (myself only), but thought better of it as i do not know if all of the trans pressures are being applied properly, and really don't want to wreck the trans as an experiment.

I simply do not have the time and space available right now to tear the interior out, go to the junkyard, do that same on a donor, outlay more cash, and install and hope that it works. I am going to try this at some time, just because all of the drivetrain components are in place and "functioning", and i started with a $1600 car, and have stuck another $2700 so far into it, first fixing the original cvt, and now this. We drove it 6,000 miles. Not really a cheap second car as originally intended. The limit i have set for myself is $500. That is it.

I drive a manual vue 135 miles per day, and it works fine, respectable mpg for the size/price, so i know what they are capable of, but the correct system must be in place for all to work properly.

If/when i get to it, i will be sure to document it.

I got mine running and shifting (high rpm) too just the same way your vue does, no more speedometer and no tachometer. I never conected the brown wire (acc voltage) did you do it? Where to?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

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