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Old 05-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #1
imseanross
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Dizzy Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

2003 Saturn Vue VT25E VTI to 4T45E Transmission Swap

Here's what I have so far.

Parts Needed:
What GM Said
"They say the 2003 Saturn Vue cannot accept any other transmission, and no dealer or independent shop will put any other transmission in"
I'm sorry, but that is false information GM.

What I can Guess
4T45E Transmission
Transmission Wiring Harness
Drive Axles
Wheel Hubs
Drivetrain Control Module will need to be flashed (Cobalt)

I'm getting this together for whatever mechanic I end up taking it to as I really don't have the time (or skill level) to really do this on my own.

Any help would be great! Thanks.

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Old 05-29-2012, 09:43 PM   #2
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2006 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Need to find a wrecked 2006-2007 Vue with 2.2L auto.
Pull harness for trans and all related parts. Get a wiring diagram for your vue and one for vue that you borrowed parts from. Remember GM can't program TCM without vin and don't know of any one or any way TCM can be programmed. Maybe look on some racing sites that have a computer reprogrammer that will let you set shift points your self. Why you need diagrams of both vehicles is so all signals needed from motor to trans will be there. If you get TCM with trans it should be already programmed but if something go wrong then you might need ecm as well. I do know bcm will not work.

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Old 05-30-2012, 08:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

@tiger862 - Thanks for the input, I think that is probably the best way to go about it.

Now I just need to find one!

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Old 05-30-2012, 10:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by imseanross View Post
@tiger862 - Thanks for the input, I think that is probably the best way to go about it.

Now I just need to find one!
According to GM parts book - TCM part number for 03-04 TCM is 24222126 - this would be VTI (you might confirm by looking at yours).

Parts book lists 05-07 TCM (4T45-E) with part number 24232808.

You can Google to locate possible sources.

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I rarely visit forum but respond to private messages (PM). PM creates email to phone & please include email address with question. Avoid using Visitor Message feature ... I almost never check those.

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Old 08-18-2012, 10:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

I just did a complete swap on my 2004 vue from cvt trans to the 4t45e transmission it is possible for all of you guys out there that are wondering i did do it and it does drive.there is alot of work involved, i had to do alot of modifications cutting the cradle to fit the new trans i had to make all of my transmission mounts except for the front one which is the only one that you can buy you need a complete harness motor and inside the car from front to back because the whole wiring is completly different. the axles i ended up mking myself because i used a 2005 malibu transmission if you do do this sway get a vue trans that way the axles will work and no modifications will be needed. i didnt need to get new hubs because i used the old axles and just modified them so im not sure if you would need to buy them or not. i had to get the engine module reflashed for a 2006 because the transmission module that i got was an 06 and my ecm would cause the car to run ritch and throw engine codes. the local saturn deal can reflash its just an hour of labor the trans will work without a reflash and shift just fine the engine just wont. i can go into more depth if anyone has any questions i would gladly help you out the best i can on here but it is possible.

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Good news to all those having endure the CVT/VTI transmission failures in the Saturn Vue/Ion from 2002 to 2005 and missed the GM recall. There is a valid solution to your problems, i.e., Transmission swapping from CVT/VTI to a 4 Speed Automatic or 5 speed manual, depending if you want to do the work or have someone do it for you. Most recently, I swapped by CVT out of my 2003 Saturn Vue 2.2L 4 cyl ecotec engine for a 4 speed automatic 4T45-E, which was mated also in the 2005 and up Saturn Vue. I went to Picknpull and retrieved a 2003 Alero 4 speed transmission after some research of the Ecotec engine in cars with those engines. I boought the Transmission, Wiring Harness, mounts and Transmission Control module, for I anticipated there would be some difficulty mounting the transmission. The transmission bolted to the engine, but not the engine/transmission cradle. There are 3 mounts to be concerned with. The front, back and side. After mounting the 4t45 transmission, I had tyo change the wiring harness which leads to the valve body. The harness on the CVT valve body is rectanglar, while the one on the 4t45-e is round.
The miner differences is the input speed sensor is located on the outside, verses inside the cvt or at the wheel hub. The complete wiring harness that lead to the ECU/ECM to the TCU/TCM and to the speed sensor and fuse mount must be obtained for a successful connection. The gear ratio and/or setting is already programed in the TCM from the 03 Alero. Cars that are compatible to Saturn Vue or Ion are, Chevy Malibu 04/08, Cobolt, cavalier, Saturn L200, Alero and etc. You can reflash the CVT 0 Transmission Control Unit, or obtained the TCM from the car you obtain the transmission from. Also, on the axles, you can use your own cv half joint by removing the extended axel and carrier bearing.
The ideal for swapping the tranny came from this forum.

Last edited by jimmie504; 10-06-2012 at 06:40 PM..

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmie504 View Post
Good news to all those having endure the CVT/VTI transmission failures in the Saturn Vue/Ion from 2002 to 2005 and missed the GM recall. There is a valid solution to your problems, i.e., Transmission swapping from CVT/VTI to a 4 Speed Automatic or 5 speed manual, depending if you want to do the work or have someone do it for you. Most recently, I swapped by CVT out of my 2003 Saturn Vue 2.2L 4 cyl ecotec engine for a 4 speed automatic 4T45-E, which was mated also in the 2005 and up Saturn Vue. I went to Picknpull and retrieved a 2003 Alero 4 speed transmission after some research of the Ecotec engine in cars with those engines. I boought the Transmission, Wiring Harness, mounts and Transmission Control module, for I anticipated there would be some difficulty mounting the transmission. The transmission bolted to the engine, but not the engine/transmission cradle. There are 3 mounts to be concerned with. The front, back and side. After mounting the 4t45 transmission, I had tyo change the wiring harness which leads to the valve body. The harness on the CVT valve body is rectanglar, while the one on the 4t45-e is round.
The miner differences is the input speed sensor is located on the outside, verses inside the cvt or at the wheel hub. The complete wiring harness that lead to the ECU/ECM to the TCU/TCM and to the speed sensor and fuse mount must be obtained for a successful connection. The gear ratio and/or setting is already programed in the TCM from the 03 Alero. Cars that are compatible to Saturn Vue or Ion are, Chevy Malibu 04/08, Cobolt, cavalier, Saturn L200, Alero and etc. You can reflash the CVT 0 Transmission Control Unit, or obtained the TCM from the car you obtain the transmission from. Also, on the axles, you can use your own cv half joint by removing the extended axel and carrier bearing.
The ideal for swapping the tranny came from this forum.
Good! I'm about to do this swap I have a 2003 awd 2.2 Vue. Why did you go for the Alero tans. Is there any difference to other 2.2 4t45e? Is there any other advise or tip you can post to improve this project?

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HENRYPINKS View Post
Good! I'm about to do this swap I have a 2003 awd 2.2 Vue. Why did you go for the Alero tans. Is there any difference to other 2.2 4t45e? Is there any other advise or tip you can post to improve this project?
This swap won't work in your case. It is important to note that this swap works with FWD models, but not AWD models.

...
2007 Ion 2 Quad Coupe 5-speed manual 170K miles
2007 Chevy Equinox LT 155K miles

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Old 10-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Even an AWD Saturn Vue will work with modifications, i.e., you will have to remove the drive axel for the AWD and convert it to a FWD only. I used only the 03 Alero 2.2L 4 cyl ecotec engine transmission. I had to change on the side and back mounts. The transmission bolted perfectly to the engine, but not to the cradle. I used the wiring harness for the valve body (14 color coded wires for the 4t45-e transmission vs. 20 color code wires for the CVT, Pink wire which goes to the fuses, two(2) input speed sensor and (2) output speed sensor. Any 4t45-e unbolted from the 2.2L 4 cyl ecotec engine will do, it is simply the work involved.

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Old 01-23-2013, 08:44 PM   #10
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Thumbs Up Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

This is an update to the VTi/CVT swap for a 4t45-e transmission in a saturn vue. After some extensive modifidications, I will provide the following.
The 4t45 will bolt up to the 2.2L ecotec. What needs to changed is the TCM control module. Rather than simply changing the TCM, you will have an option, that is, change the ECU and TCM, to a Powertrain Control module, even though some of the term ECU and powertrain (PCM) or interchangable. I will explain why. The TCM on the saturn vue (03) has a number of features that would be confusing. The Saturn TCM wire harness contains the following;

Pin/cavity wire color circuit no. function
1 - - -
2 ye 657 Trans fluid pressure sensor sig.
3-5 - -
6 pur 401 OSS low signal
7-10 - - -
11 pur/wht 5506 Ratio Contr. Motor B1 low control
12 - - -
13 D-Grn 5507 Ratio Control mtr. A2 low control
14 L-grn/wht 5505 Ratio Control mtr. A1 low contrl
15 --------
16 D-blu/wht 5502 TCC Enable Solenoid Valve low ctl
17 --------
18 blk/wht 771 Trans range switch sig A
19 -----
20 OG/blk 586 TFT senor low
21-28 ----
29 blk 452 low ref
30 PK/blk 5501 TCC Enable solenoid valve high
31 OG/blk 5504 Ratio Vontrl B2 low
32-43 ----
44 ye/blk 5500 TCC Pressure Contrl solen vav low
45 BN 418 TCC Press. Contrl Sol. vav high
46-48 --
49 wht 776 Trans. Range Swtch sign P
50 wht 5503 line press. contrl sol val low
51 d-blu 1530 line press contrl sol val high
52 gray 773 trans. range swtch sig. C

The 4t45 transmission contrains:

function pin

Shift sol. 1-2 A lt-green
Shift sol. 2-3 b yel/blk
line pressure High c red/blk
line pressure low d lt-blu/wht
+12 volt ign. e pk
Not Used f-k
TFT high l yel/blk
TFT low m blk
Trans. fluid press swt. A n pnk
Trans fluid press swt C p red
Trans. fluid press swt B R dk-blu
Input SS high S red/blk
TCC PWM t brn
TCC Release swtch, u yel
TCC Speed v dk-blu/wht
not used w

The Ratio Control Motor A and B is low circuit references. Thereofore you will have to obtined a TCM stand alone and have the module flashed and reprogramm to the 4t45 specification.

If you connect the vues tcm, it do not have the lockup mechanism to lock the Torque converter and the results would be a code in reference to Solenoid B circuit open or short. It will not allow it to shift and will be stuck in first gear. You will have to add resistors to the ratio control motor circuit which will provide the correct ratio for the gears. Initially I obtained a 2003 alero PCM and then a 2002 sunfire. These modules contains IAC coil circuits wire color blue/wht - blue/blk - grn/whit and grn/blk. however on the 2003 saturn there is not connections. Better to obtain a 2005 or above PCM. You can obtain diagram pinouts on the Ecotec forum, CobaltSS.net or scrib.com for diagrams on CVT, ecotech engines and etc. Hope this information will be helpful.

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Old 01-27-2013, 02:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hi, I'm making the swap, I did all the mechanic part, I'm about to buy the wire harness, I have some questions:
1-Should I buy the hole engine alero harness Or I will only need transmission harness?

2-Will I need the alero TCM or can I use my vue TCM and reprogram it?

3-You said you can buy the front transmission mount, where can I find it?

Thanks a lot! I will post pictures of the hole project.

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

You will have to format the TCM module on the saturn vue and place the new data for the 4t45-e transmission. That means, THE PCS function/GM function, viz:

Shift Solenoid (1-2) or A (1-2 shift solenoid valve control)
Shift Solenoid (2-3)B (2-3 shift solenoid valve control)
Line Pressure Hi (PCs solenoid valve high)
Line Pressure Low (PC solenoid valve low)
12 volt
TFT postive Trans. fluid temp
TFT neg trans. fluid temp
Trans Fluid Pressure Switch Signal A
Trans Fluid Pressure Switch sig. C
trans fluid Press. switch B
Input Speed sensor signal Hi
TCC PWM TCC PWM solenoid Valve control
TCC Release Switch TCC release switch signal
TCC Speed neg. (ground.

You have to also remember the correct gear ration
1st. 2.957
2ns 1.623
3rd 1.000
4th 0.683
Rev. 2.143

Your wire harness may need to be modified, removing the "ratio control motor (stepper motor) wiring since they will not be used." The Ratio control motor is like PWM - Pulse width Modification. If you get an Alero PCM Powertrain control module, then splicing or replace the entire wire harness, that means, that pcm will control the whole engine, including the transmission and that is a headache in itself.

You can download the 4t45 software/firmware or you can have someone at a transmission repair shop or dealership to do this. as for as the Body control module, I had no problem, providing I did not use the PCM.

"OR" you will have to find a stand alone Transmission Control Module and place it in there including the wiring harness.

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

PSS Picknpull or automotive wrecking yard is a good cheap source for the mount, but it will need to be modified. I drilled hole in the mount and place extension bolt with center peices to tighten it. Make sure the transmission drain pan do not hit rub against the craddle or you will have a leaking transmission to repair below. Good luck.

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Old 02-24-2013, 12:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hi, I'm still confusing about how to connect the 4t45 trans wires to the VUE's harness, can you provide a diagram or explain how to connect them, I will buy you some beers. Thanks in advance.

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Old 02-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #15
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Post Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hey Henry, Let me give you an update on your connecting the wiring harness and TCM module. First thing first/

The 4t45 wiring harness connector, see attachment. shift 1-2 and 2-3; line pressure control high/low, Initial 12V+ - TFT high/low, TFP A,C,B - PWM speed, PWM Engage, TCC Pressure control high/low and Input Speed Sensor.

Get a stand alone transmission TCM to save time office a Saturn ION 04-05
Option, if you use a malibu, alero or any other control module which combines ECM/TCM it is called a Powertrain Module, that means replacing you ECM and TCM and your saturn vue engine must be a 2.2L L6. If it is 2.2L L4 that a stand alone is sufficient. Let me reiterate that:

2.2l L6 will adopt a Powertrain Control Module i.e., Engine and Transmission control module combined.

2.2l L4 will adopt a stand alone TCM.

Additional Option, Formatting and Re-Write Transmission Control Module on Saturn Vue to reflect the 4t45 OS, which will include pinout connection.

TCC Engage is shift 1-2/2-3, but it will not shift becuase the TCM is a continuous variable, so there is not second gear. TCC Pressure Control, Line Pressure Control, Trans-fluid temp, and Stepper Motor or ratio control. Delphi and GM permitted the TCM to be rewritten.

Hoping this information is helpful in which direction you will take. It is more insight than I started with.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

PS here is the 4t45 pinout diagrams. In addition, your Output speed sensor is attached to the rear of the transmission and it controls your speed odometer and your Input speed sensor is located in the transmission, it controls your RPM. Depending on your 2.2L ecotech engine, wheather it is a L4 or L6, one comes with ABS/traction control that attaches your vehicle speed sensor (VSS) located at the front passenger wheel while the L4 do not have the ABS, must merely the pump.

The common codes thrown using the Saturn TCM or P0964, 0966, 0842, 1882-1885 and 1888, as well as standard code 0700, 0701 all related to TCM malfunctioning.

The flash update, depending on the module you use will correct the setting, including the BCM. Otherwise, the car/truck will run shaky.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

attachment
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

Hi, This is what a GM experience programmer said about all this:

"i don't know why jimmy talks confidently about reflashing the VUE TCM for a 4T45E transmission. it is quite impossible. there are no aftermarket tools for modifying the programming in this oddball TCM, only factory GM flash for a VIN that this TCM was used for. but this TCM only came in saturn VUEs. so the only calibrations available from GM to flash into it are based on VUE VINs, and none of them have 4T45E transmissions.

the T42 will not work. it is not a standalone unit and requires a functioning ECM (E38, E67, etc) on the CAN bus.

your only options is to (1) use an aftermarket standalone TCM (expensive)...

...or (2) use the P11 alero PCM. you can try to (a) run the engine and trans with it, getting rid of the VUE ECM/TCM pair completely, or (b) try to wire in the P11 somehow just to control the trans as i suggested and let the VUE ECM control the engine.

(a) will probably get you into trouble with the VUE BCM. (b) will require remapping both the VUE ECM ($300) to disable all the transmission codes bc the original VUE TCM and transmission are gone and the ECM will look for them, and the P11 alero PCM ($225) to disable the VATS and other stuff. (b) may be possible, but tricky."

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Old 04-04-2013, 04:27 PM   #19
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

I have done a couple of these swaps and have never used an Alero PCM.

These vehicle communicate with GM LAN data wires that exchange information between the modules and the BCM.

I have used 05-07 Saturn Ion TCM in my applications. I have also done the swap numerous times with the Aisin AF-23, (you need to use the 02-03 Vue V-6 TCM for that one). Essential what I did was get a complete 2005-2007 Saturn Ion engine wiring harness. You have to carefully split the harness and isolate the wires for main trans plug, neutral safety switch plug, speed sensor plug, GM LAN wires, (two sets circuit 1500 and 1501 tan and tan with white stripe), and the wires associated that plug into the fuse block connector.

With this you must remove the CVT wiring from the Vue harness in the same manner. The wires at the fuse block connector C2 are the ones that power the TCM, neutral safety, and starter crank signal. You must look at the pinout and place the wires from the replacement harness in the Vue fuse block connector corresponding with the appropriate circuit. The circuit numbers are slightly different between the Ion and Vue, but the color and function are the same. The two GM LAN wires, (Tan and Tan/white), from the VUE ECM connect to The TCM and exchange data between them, and the second set go from the TCM through the ABS module and onto the BCM. The connector pins at the TCM suck and are very brittle, so I have cut, spliced, soldered, and heat shrank the GM LAN wires with no problems.

Once completed properly the whole set up works with no warning lights. The only issue is in the way the Keyword Serial Data circuit operates on the Vue Vs. the Ion. On the Vue that circuit travels through the TCM and the Ion does not. I simply bypassed the wiring through the ECM to ABS and BCM and have not had an issue.


So to answer everyone's questions yes you can use the TCM from an ION, Cobalt, G5, etc. No PCM,s here.



This information is offered as-is with no warranty or guaranty it will work for you. I am not responsible for damage to you vehicle, yourself, or your marriage. Good luck.

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:07 AM   #20
jimmie504
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Post Re: Swapping the VT25E for the 4T45E transmission!

The 4t45-e is a harder swap as far as the TCM which drives the module. The only viable solution - which of course is much simplier, is to use both the saturn Ion 05-06 TCM and ECM, but this will also have an affect on the BCM, which would have to be changed also. Standalone will remedied this confusion. Reflashing or programming it (TCM) gets into the data aspects of the module. Formatting and re-install an Operating system is an easy task, whether it be on a desktop, lab top, game station, vehicle, or CPU central processing unit. Leave that at that.
For all individuals wanting the easy route for a transmission swap, acquire an af23 transmission, Af33 TCM from 02-03 Saturn Vue and front and rear mounts, and on the TCM add pin 35 and 36 Serial Data Wire to your wire harness.

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