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Old 01-26-2012, 09:54 PM   #1
Brian9379
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Default My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

I have never really had a problem with my Saturn. Now it won't start. The thing is it is very random about not starting. It will drive well for days and then suddenly it will not start. If the car sits for a few hours, it starts back up. New Battery, the cables have been tightened, and the altenator has been checked as well as the starter.

A friend of mine says it could be that my key is old and worn. Any one heard of this? The mecanic seems to think it could be the fact that my tumblers are loose so that could be causing the problem.They have been loose for years though. The key feel out while I was driving about 4 years ago, car was still on. That is all I can think about to describe the problem. Please help.

Thank you
Brian

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:02 PM   #2
Oilonly
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

If it's a physical interlock problem with your key (won't turn, won't engage, etc.) then *possibly* ignition wear is the cause. You don't mention whether the car is cranking over but not starting.

It sounds more to me like a crankshaft sensor problem - if the car cranks but won't start when it's hot, but will start after the engine cools down some, it may be that solid state sensor. The sensor is located at the rear of the engine, up and behind the starter motor. There's a Richpin video about replacing it. It's not an expensive part, but installing it can be something of a pain - you need to remove the starter to do so.

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

What year? Auto or manual? Mileage?

...
*The CPS is the heart of the entire EFI system. No cps = dead EFI system*
*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

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Old 01-27-2012, 12:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

It is a 2002 and it is standard. The Key will turn, lights and air come on...(no radio as it was stolen) but it will not start. No clicking. Once it sits for a while it will start again.

It seems to cycle through where it will start after I have driven it and then it will not. This has been going on for about three months...

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Old 01-27-2012, 12:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

milage aron 125,000 (over that)... but not much over.

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Old 01-27-2012, 12:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

A more thorough description of the problem would be helpful since we don't have the car in front of us.

Does the key fail to turn? Does the key turn but no warning lights come on? Does the key turn, the warning lights come on but the engine does not turn over? Does the engine turn over but slowly? Does it turn over normally but not start? There are a myriad of possible problems and resultant solutions fitting the minimal description we have to this point. Throwing parts at all these possibles will be expensive, frustrating and largely futile.

My $0.02 cheap.
-LR

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Old 01-27-2012, 12:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Does it turn over but not start, or no respoonse at all? Does the car have remote keyless entry? Random problems with the module is possible though not a high probability. Starter in the process of failure sounds more likely esp. if it is just not cranking during the fail episodes.

-LR

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

This is a no-crank issue. It's not the key (since it turns normally), or the CPS (since the engine isn't even cranking).

Does it ever fail to start after the car has been parked for a while? Like the first time you use it on a given day? Does it seem to fail _after_ driving it for a while, then shutting off, then trying to start it again right away? If no to the first and yes to the second, then it's sounding like your starter is failing when hot, not an uncommon problem. The trick is in catching it in the act. You have to be able to check to voltage at the purple wire on the solenoid right when it fails. If you have voltage there, but no crank, then it's def. the starter. You might also try whacking the starter with a stick to see if that gets it going. If it does, that's not a fix, just another confirmation that the starter is done for. If it's the original, at 10 years and 125,000 miles, it's just about at the end of its useful life.

You should get a new key cut. DON'T make a copy of your existing worn key, get a new one cut from a little-used key, or based on the VIN. It isn't related to your no-crank issue, but you'll have other problems down the road related to your ignition switch if you continue to use a worn-out key.

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
you should get a new key cut. Don't make a copy of your existing worn key, get a new one cut from a little-used key, or based on the vin. It isn't related to your no-crank issue, but you'll have other problems down the road related to your ignition switch if you continue to use a worn-out key.
^^^^ + 1

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Old 01-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Battery, battery, cables, starter. Check in that order beginning with the battery to be sure its holding a charge and both terminals aren't corroded with loose cable connections. Check cables for corrosion and loose connections including ground at the chassis and engine block. Last check and most difficult is the starter after ensuring power and connections are capable of carrying large currents for the starter to run. With mileage comes wear and tear on long life parts; battery, cables, alternator, serpentine belt, belt tensioner, and starter. The starter can sometimes be difficult to troubleshoot if not familiar with its quirks.

The last check to make on the starter is measuring the small gauge purple wire on the starter; disconnect it to measure for 12v when the ignition switch is held in the START position - as long as the switch is held to START, 12v should be on those two wires to indicate the starting circuit is fine and the starter has failed. Intermittent starter failures can be difficult to determine when its time to replace it. What's described is one way to determine a worn out starter.

...
*The CPS is the heart of the entire EFI system. No cps = dead EFI system*
*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Went through this last night and today. Turn key and no click, no start. Lights, radio and fan worked. Popped clutched and it started so in my mind meant not a spark or fuel problem.

Checked battery/alternator with multimeter and was good.

Banged on starter and car started.

Watched Richpin's video and changed it literally 2 hours ago.

Good as new.

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Battery, battery, cables, starter. Check in that order beginning with the battery to be sure its holding a charge and both terminals aren't corroded with loose cable connections. Check cables for corrosion and loose connections including ground at the chassis and engine block. Last check and most difficult is the starter after ensuring power and connections are capable of carrying large currents for the starter to run. With mileage comes wear and tear on long life parts; battery, cables, alternator, serpentine belt, belt tensioner, and starter. The starter can sometimes be difficult to troubleshoot if not familiar with its quirks.

The last check to make on the starter is measuring the small gauge purple wire on the starter; disconnect it to measure for 12v when the ignition switch is held in the START position - as long as the switch is held to START, 12v should be on those two wires to indicate the starting circuit is fine and the starter has failed. Intermittent starter failures can be difficult to determine when its time to replace it. What's described is one way to determine a worn out starter.
Thanks. You just taught me how to test a starter. I changed mine today by just guessing and process of elimination. Now I know how to do it right.

Many thanks Sir.

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
This is a no-crank issue. It's not the key (since it turns normally), or the CPS (since the engine isn't even cranking).

Does it ever fail to start after the car has been parked for a while? Like the first time you use it on a given day? Does it seem to fail _after_ driving it for a while, then shutting off, then trying to start it again right away? If no to the first and yes to the second, then it's sounding like your starter is failing when hot, not an uncommon problem. The trick is in catching it in the act. You have to be able to check to voltage at the purple wire on the solenoid right when it fails. If you have voltage there, but no crank, then it's def. the starter. You might also try whacking the starter with a stick to see if that gets it going. If it does, that's not a fix, just another confirmation that the starter is done for. If it's the original, at 10 years and 125,000 miles, it's just about at the end of its useful life.

You should get a new key cut. DON'T make a copy of your existing worn key, get a new one cut from a little-used key, or based on the VIN. It isn't related to your no-crank issue, but you'll have other problems down the road related to your ignition switch if you continue to use a worn-out key.
Got 285k miles out of my starter and just changed it. Used the ole hit it with a stick trick since I was not wise to measuring purple wire with multimeter. Now I know.

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Personally, I like banging the starter first before I trust anyone turning the ignition key to START and forgetting to pull the START wire off, possibly resulting in a sudden starter taking off and engine starting while I'm under the car!? Disconnecting the START wire ensures no possible starter operation unless (a third and most hazardous trick) the large starter terminal is shorted to the START terminal via jumper wire, screwdriver, needle nose pliers, etc.. Bridging the 12v battery terminal to the small terminal will power the starter immediately if the starter is in good condition. Not a safe way to test for a worn out starter but it can be done with a cautious attitude........................to troubleshoot wiring.

...
*The CPS is the heart of the entire EFI system. No cps = dead EFI system*
*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

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Old 01-28-2012, 08:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Here is what I know about what is happening with my car.

It started after I got the battery changed, which is why I sarted with the cabels. After the mechanic looked around he told me that the starter was fine, the altenator was fine and that he tightend the cabels.

It seems to be after driving that it will not start. It is not always, but seems to be happening more.

The key does turn, the air comes on as do the lights. (my radio was stolen so it does not come on). There is no clicking, there is no sound. It seems like the message to turn on is not getting anywhere. If he car sits for a while, it will start again. It drives just fine. The EGR Valvue does need to be replaced, but I need to figure this out before I can get that taken care of.

I have had two garages test the altenator and starter as well as Discount Auto parts. Battery is only 3 months old.

I have tried to give you all the information I can, I just really do not know a lot about cars. 123,000 miles on the car, bought in 2002. I am the only owner.

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Old 01-28-2012, 08:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

As I have said before, your symptoms sound like mine with the starter issue.

How did he test the starter? With a multimeter?

Next time it doesn't start take your jack handle, lay down on the ground and hit the starter a few times. See what happens.

If they tested everything and it "checks out" then why does it not start? They missed something, had to. I have had those places test alternators at least 3 times and be wrong.

How long since you changed batteries did this start?

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Old 01-29-2012, 12:01 AM   #17
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian9379 View Post
........ I have had two garages test the altenator and starter as well as Discount Auto parts. Battery is only 3 months old...... I just really do not know a lot about cars. 123,000 miles on the car, bought in 2002. I am the only owner.
Did both repair shops remove the starter to test it? If not, how did they test it?

I'm certainly not an expert on cars and can always learn something new. As far as my knowledge goes, a starter cannot be tested on a car or on a bench to determine whether its brand spanking new or totally worn out. The only sure way to determine the difference between a new starter and worn out one (not from outward appearances) is to completely disassemble them to examine the parts that wear. There is no other way to say a starter is good or bad unless you are willing to bang the starter with a steel rebar or 2x4 piece of lumber (old school method) when another no-start situation occurs. Another member above has already learned this simple technique. Experience counts here, on determining a worn out starter.

Experience; car mileage, number of trips a day, trips done locally with many engine start ups and shut downs or driven twice a day as in daily work driving, The number of times a starter is used per day, per week, month, against overall car mileage is used to roughly calculate how long a starter can last. And even with this rough calculation, some starters last for years and well over 250k miles and still work while most give up long before a quarter of a million miles.

At 120k+ miles your starter is suspect based on your descriptions. Eliminating the battery, battery cables, and their connections tends to leave the starter for last. Unless the ignition switch suffered unusual wear and tear that would possibly cause an intermittent no-start issue or the starting circuit and associated wiring suffered major corrosion or damage, the starter is most likely worn out.

A perfectly good repair shop can troubleshoot a worn out starter easily. I've already described how, many times in these forums and almost anyone that can crawl under the car and measure voltages can perform the same test. I won't describe how until you answer my question above as I suspect there are lazy mechanics/techs that are more than willing to take your money for little service. I call this "lip service".

...
*The CPS is the heart of the entire EFI system. No cps = dead EFI system*
*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

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Old 02-04-2012, 09:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

I do not know how they tested the starter and the altenator,

When I had the battery changed in October the Auto shop tested my starter and my altenator just to check things out for me. (The manager there is a customer of mine). At the garage I do not know what they did. They just told me that they had tested the cables, the battery, the altenator and the starter and that they were all fine. Only charged me 30.00 as well.

I have noticed that it seems to not start when the engine is hot. Seems to be fine when it is cold. Tonight is the only time it has not started after sitting for three hours or more.

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Old 02-04-2012, 11:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

Well, based on more information, it seems to me your starter is worn out. The suggestion to reach under and bang the starter a few times with a piece of 2x4 lumber can narrow it down to the starter when it won't run. As another member has mentioned, his starter went to about 285k miles - starters can last almost forever if the car is highway driven for many miles between starter use or as short as 75k miles when a car is driven on many short trips around town. While mileage is not the only factor in determining starter wear, car history and useage are.

You always have choices to make and one way to define starter wear is by banging it a few times, the old school way, when it decides not to work. And whether the starter will run from banging it is not certain but unless you find another shop or someone a little more skilled at starter troubleshooting, replacing it is the most likely choice at this time.

...
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*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

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Old 04-21-2013, 06:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: My Saturn SL2 Randomly will not start

2002 SL2 Saturn that just suddenly dies while the vehicle is in motion or stopped and different intervals of distances. After the repair shop replaced various components of the engine without fixing the problem ($785 in shop charges and 3 trips), I was able to narrow the problem to the "DRL" Relay located in the "FUSE AND RELAY CENTER". "DRL" stands for the Daylight Running Lights. Removing the "DRL" Relay until you can replace the relay should be the first step when the Saturn suddenly dies on the road. Just pull up on the relay and it should come out. If it is difficult to remove, an option is to remove the "30A IP BATT" in the "FUSE CENTER" and putting it back in will provide a temporary fix to get you home where you can use a small screwdriver to pry loose the relay (you might have to do this a couple of times to get you home).

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