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Old 10-24-2011, 03:10 PM   #41
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1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

The exhaust manifold is different for all years 96-99 for the SOHC and DOHC. the outlet flange position/orentation may be identical in some cases though. That would be determined by the headpipe and the parts book shows a different part number for those also.

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Old 10-24-2011, 03:50 PM   #42
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

The SOHC did not get the precat until either thew actual 2000 model or those cars of model year 99 built in 2000.

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Old 10-26-2011, 11:10 AM   #43
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Just an update - I got the car back yesterday and its running great. I need to put the correct downstream O2 sensor back in, but aside from that I believe everything is peachy. THANKS ADAM. Also, big thanks to off-track for finding him for me!

My car feels... lighter and zippier. Probably just because I've been driving an 87 Volvo boat in the meantime though

I need to diagnose and figure out WHY the cat failed in the first place, though, so this doesn't happen again soon.

I dont know much about exhausts, but it seems to me that running with a rich mixture would make the cat run a lot hotter. Do you think thats it?

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Old 10-26-2011, 12:26 PM   #44
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

An air leak in the headpipe causes a rich condition in the CAT and much higher operating temperature. That materially shortens the life of the CAT.

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Old 10-26-2011, 01:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
An air leak in the headpipe causes a rich condition in the CAT and much higher operating temperature. That materially shortens the life of the CAT.
When I pulled the front pipe off initially, there was hardly anything left of the gasket. Did that really cause all of this? I think I still have it at home so I can get a picture up.

The flex pipe also wasnt in terribly good shape, but not too bad either, it seems. (Note that the cut in the pipe is where I started to use a hacksaw but later decided to cut it elsewhere).

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Old 10-26-2011, 02:22 PM   #46
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

The outer braid is cosmetic rock protection, non structural.

Yes, a failed or ,leaking manifold to headpipe gasket will result in reduced mileage, reduced performance, increased CAT temperature, and most importantly potential CO poisoning.

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Old 10-26-2011, 02:27 PM   #47
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The outer braid is cosmetic rock protection, non structural.

Yes, a failed or ,leaking manifold to headpipe gasket will result in reduced mileage, reduced performance, increased CAT temperature, and most importantly potential CO poisoning.
bet that was it then. Funny how a failed $3 part turns into a multi-hundred dollar repair job.

I think you will be appalled at the state of this gasket when I get a picture up here.

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Old 10-26-2011, 09:24 PM   #48
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Glad it worked out so well! Your situation was exactly what he was looking for in his post. Hopefully it will help others keep their Sat's on the road as well as get the aftermarket parts right?

From the support you've gotten I'd say that Eastern definitely deserves the kudo's? It's good to know that there are still some companies that actually are concerned with customer service/satisfaction and a quality product these days. Just from the outcome of this thread I'd say that they have earned our support?

Now.. to get RA to carry their direct fit line..

...
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Purchased 114k 10/07
Added OEM CC

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Old 10-26-2011, 10:27 PM   #49
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

RA will carry the line as long as they are not getting kickbacks from customers because it does not fit. That is what causes many lines to be dropped at RA.

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Old 10-27-2011, 09:49 AM   #50
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by off-track View Post
Glad it worked out so well! Your situation was exactly what he was looking for in his post. Hopefully it will help others keep their Sat's on the road as well as get the aftermarket parts right?

From the support you've gotten I'd say that Eastern definitely deserves the kudo's? It's good to know that there are still some companies that actually are concerned with customer service/satisfaction and a quality product these days. Just from the outcome of this thread I'd say that they have earned our support?

Now.. to get RA to carry their direct fit line..
Yeah, agreed. Eastern definitely deserves the credit for this, and I think Adam said they will start selling it in a couple of months. Glad to know they are putting in the effort.

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Old 11-01-2011, 08:38 AM   #51
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by dah97765 View Post
Yeah, agreed. Eastern definitely deserves the credit for this, and I think Adam said they will start selling it in a couple of months. Glad to know they are putting in the effort.
Thanks everyone for the good feedback. If I can make a small request to have a thread started as a sticky for all of these concerns. I already received another call from a member who was in a similar situation. I would like to have it clearly visible so we don't get repeat threads. Admin chime in??

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Old 11-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #52
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Just for completeness for future visits to this post: Here is a picture of the gasket that I mentioned. Its pretty beat.

Also, Adam said in our email conversations:

"The O/2 was definitely the cause of the failure. Your fuel trims showed the O/2 not switching so that was the cause of the fuel getting in the exhaust and burning it up"

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Old 11-10-2011, 09:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Yes, a non switching O2 sensor will drive the system either rich or lean and cause much problems. The OBD-2 does continuously monitor that but it can not monitor any lower flange gasket leakage. This leakage adds oxygen that is detected by the O2 sensor which results in the O2 sensor driving the system way rich to compensate. The O2 is probably functioning fine but the gasket is not and that will cause those kinds of problems.

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Old 11-11-2011, 10:12 AM   #54
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Yes, a non switching O2 sensor will drive the system either rich or lean and cause much problems. The OBD-2 does continuously monitor that but it can not monitor any lower flange gasket leakage. This leakage adds oxygen that is detected by the O2 sensor which results in the O2 sensor driving the system way rich to compensate. The O2 is probably functioning fine but the gasket is not and that will cause those kinds of problems.
That makes sense. And it also sounds kind of cyclical - a bad gasket would lead to the O2 sensor compensating... and a bad O2 sensor causing the system to be rich sounds like it would contribute to burning out the gasket faster.

Does that make sense?

Either way, thanks for the insight. I'm glad that this is a learning experience for me, and hopefully anyone else that comes across this thread.

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Old 11-11-2011, 11:33 AM   #55
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Yes, the rich condition does increase the exhaust temperature in the pipe. The interaction of a lower manifold gasket leak and engine performance is considerably larger than is intuitively obvious. That gasket has failed at the 1:00 ->2:00 position and that looks like the point of leakage. One of the functions of the lower exhaust clamp at the engine-transmission stiffener plate is to prevent the pipe from vibrating and destroying the lower flange gasket.

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Old 04-25-2012, 04:50 PM   #56
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

I had a problem with the flange fit. With this thread info I contacted eastern & they gave me the proper direct fit CAT. Bellow is my info, it may help someone in the future.

2000 Saturn SL2 date of manufacture 10/99
Emissions Tag
Catalyst
AIR/EGR/O2S/H2OS/SFI
WU-TWC+TWC

Conforms to US EPA NLEV regulations and California regulations applicable to 2000 model year new LEV passenger cars

This is the part number EAST50384 for Catalytic Converter to 2000 Saturn SL2 Base 4 Cyl 1.9L .
This is the exact fit part for this vehicle

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Old 03-18-2013, 12:26 PM   #57
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

I too have had flange fittment problems with eastern catalytic pn 50326 for my 98 sw2 build date 5/98 federal emissions package. I have sent a pm to adam for a remedy to this situation.... until then my sw2 sits on jack stands while i 110 mile round trip commute for work.... my 18mpg jeep vs 37mpg sw2 is killing my wallet!

I will keep this thread updated

id post a picture but i don not have enough posts!

h**p://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab84/pmessineo/saturn/IMAG1057.jpg

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Old 12-27-2013, 10:43 PM   #58
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Thought I would give people an update on this issue......

I decided to change my entire exhaust because the flex pipe was leaking exhaust....seemingly going straight into the passenger compartment.....not good. The entire exhaust was so rusty I decided replacing the entire thing would be easier. I knew nothing of this flange issue until I tried to connect my new cat/flex pipe assembly(from Eastern, none-the-less.)

To keep this as short as possible I'll skip to the important stuff. Adam no longer works at Eastern. The person I spoke to at Eastern told me that specifically. I didn't ask why. I asked him what to do about my situation and if they could get me the converter I needed with the exact flange. He said no. He told me that in about 2 years Saturn used about 9 different configurations in the exhaust because of reasons already covered in the previous threads. It sounded like it would have been nearly impossible for Eastern to provide all the configurations. There would have been no return of scale with small numbers of each configuration. (Either that, or this guy didn't want to take the time to make a sale, which I doubt.) He told me to just take part and my car to an exhaust shop and have them cut and re-weld it to fit. I didn't ask him if my warranty would be voided because by then I had returned the Eastern cat and had a different one. I'm sure it would be voided though. I took it to a local one-man exhaust shop. The guy was great and seems to have done a good job.....all for $60. Not bad, considering he had to cut and re-weld in 3 places because of the rotation, angle, etc.

A note for those who want to do this themselves......keep the end of the pipe pointed down when grinding and welding because my exhaust guy said you can't let ANY dust, dirt, metal shavings, etc. get into the cat or it can wreck it.

Anyway, hope my struggles help someone else avoid them.

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Old 12-27-2013, 11:08 PM   #59
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Good feedback/update to an old thread!

...
1997 - SL2, barebones, 161k, Auto - Rebuild complete and.. burnt a valve 20k later Arrgh!
Purchased 114k 10/07
Added OEM CC

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Old 12-28-2013, 12:03 AM   #60
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Default Re: 99 SL1 - replacing exhaust - flange holes incorrect

Well, that is the end of Eastern then. As to metal in eh cat that is indeed true if you are DIYing this job. The secret is to find a shop that will cut off the misoriented flange and about 6-8" of pipe and build a new top piece to weld into place.

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