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Old 08-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #1
SACTOWNMOM
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Reflash Computer

What exactly is reflashing my car's computer and does it erase items that "supposedly" need to be replaced by a "stealership"? The stealership did not reflash my car's computer after find P1811 or P1011 (not sure which) as they did not look for TSB reports. But my old mechanic has found TSB reports on the P1811 and believes the computer needs to be reflashed. Also, the old mechanic's cost (with manufacturer parts) is 1/2 the cost of the dealership -how is that possible. What a rip off they dealers are!

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Old 08-08-2011, 02:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

Also, mechanic called stealership and found that they had not reset the computer when bulletins where issued. Typical I guess.

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Old 08-09-2011, 08:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

P1811 Maximum Adapt and Long Shift, with the the 4T45E transmission in the V6 L's this is normally associated with Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS) failure.
I don't ever recall a TSB for reflashing the tranny computer (TCU).

Basic description of "flashing". Systems in newer cars are all run by computers, most cars have multiple computers that talk to each other via buss. The computer itself has a chip called a Programmable Read Only Memory (PROM) that has the instructions on how it's supposed to run burned or flashed on the chip by a special machine. Some chips are write once (PROM) and if you want to change the computer instructions, you have to replace the chip with a new chip with the new instruction set on it. Some chips can be Erased and re-written (EPROM) so the write machine can be hooked up to the cars CANBUS and the chip can be reprogrammed (or flashed) on the fly.

...
Jerry N

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies."

Groucho Marx

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Old 08-09-2011, 09:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

reflashing the specfic module in your case the tcm usulaly involves eraseing a set of code and rewriteing it and in some extream cases like the cts/sts the ecm/tcm operating sys was completly cleared and rewriten.... there is a reflash for the 4t65e for 06 and up but not a retrograde for the 4t65 trans.. when the 4t45 goes out there is usualy a bushing wear or a cluchpiston failure.. a competant trans tech with a tec 2 should be able to tell you what gear your trans is going long by looking at the shift adapts.. anything over 0.65 seconds is too long to control for the pcm/ecm.. my guess is the direct cluch or forward cluch piston seal is leaking..i'm sorry you have had a bad experence at your dealer.. and not all of us are bad!!!!i will try not to be offended by your calling me a stealership guy.but i am trying to help you for free so i guess it's my fault.i'm only encourageing the if it's not free it's not for me attitude...

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Old 08-09-2011, 09:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

this is the tsb your guy is thinking of and it's the only p1811 in the 94-2012 data base




#09-07-30-013A: Intermittent Harsh Upshifts or Downshifts, DTC P1811 (Maximum Adapt and Long Shift) (Reprogram TCM) - (Aug 6, 2009)







Subject:

Intermittent Harsh Upshifts or Downshifts, DTC P1811 (Maximum Adapt and Long Shift) (Reprogram TCM)






Models:

2005-2008 Buick LaCrosse/Allure






Equipped with 3.6L Engine (RPO LY7) and 4T65 Automatic Transmission (RPO M15)






2007 Buick Terraza






2007-2009 Chevrolet Uplander






2007-2009 Pontiac Montana






2007 Saturn Relay






Equipped with 4T65 Automatic Transmission (RPO M15 or M76)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to change the labor time information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-07-30-013 (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition

Some customers may comment on harsh or firm upshifts or downshifts. These conditions may be intermittent. Diagnosis may indicate that DTC P1811 (Maximum Adapt and Long Shift) has been set. This condition may also include intermittent harsh upshifts at low speeds when lifting out of throttle, and harsh downshifts at 2-1 coast down, or harsh shifts when rolling to a stop and stepping into the throttle before completely stopped.

Cause

These conditions may be caused by the TCM setting a DTC P1811. This may not be observable on the Tech 2. With a P1811, the SES light is not illuminated, but the transmission defaults to maximum line pressure. While the code is active and at maximum line pressure, all shifts may be harsh including upshifts, downshifts and shifts out of PARK. When the code is not active, most shifts may seem normal. However, the customer may comment on intermittent harsh upshifts and harsh downshifts, and a delay with harsh shifts when rolling to a stop and stepping into throttle before completely stopped.

Correction

An updated TCM calibration has been developed to address this condition. If the Service Information for the conditions described above do not isolate a fault, reprogram the TCM with the latest calibration available. Verify that the multiple diagnostic interface (MDI) that is being used is configured to the PC that will be used

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Old 08-09-2011, 10:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

and i see yours is an 03 saturn l series the 4t45E requires a trans fluid&filter change at 2yrs or every 60k did you do that? also let me clear up another issue.. we do not"they had not reset the computer when bulletins where issued" when a car is in new or powertrain warr we are prohibited from reflashing the ecm/tcm willy nilly for a bullitin unless the car exibits a symptom.. we also do not do it if it is out of warr due to you would not be happy if i asked you for an aditional 45$ for updateing all the calibrations in your car cuz there are at least 15 modules in yours and 15x 45$ each you do the math.. now we will do recall that are a platform specific like 07cts with the 3.6L and 6l80 trans... if global connect lists it as an open campaign.. as for why he is cheaper well all i can say is did you see the gm bagged parts? i'm one of 2 trans/engine guys at my dealer and i see the results of a/m tranny guys..it's not always pretty and you get what you pay for.. he can buy you a serta trans for about 1500 or so depending on the reagon and it will have a 5yr 100k warr on it.. hope the best for you.. this STEALERSHIP TECH out......

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Old 08-10-2011, 12:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
reflashing the specfic module in your case the tcm usulaly involves eraseing a set of code and rewriteing it and in some extream cases like the cts/sts the ecm/tcm operating sys was completly cleared and rewriten.... there is a reflash for the 4t65e for 06 and up but not a retrograde for the 4t65 trans.. when the 4t45 goes out there is usualy a bushing wear or a cluchpiston failure.. a competant trans tech with a tec 2 should be able to tell you what gear your trans is going long by looking at the shift adapts.. anything over 0.65 seconds is too long to control for the pcm/ecm.. my guess is the direct cluch or forward cluch piston seal is leaking..i'm sorry you have had a bad experence at your dealer.. and not all of us are bad!!!!i will try not to be offended by your calling me a stealership guy.but i am trying to help you for free so i guess it's my fault.i'm only encourageing the if it's not free it's not for me attitude...
Thanks for the feedback. When I say Stealership it is because they cost 2 - 3 times as much as other mechanics. They tried to tell me my oil cap was cracked and they wanted $40 for a $5 part. That is how they steal money. And to top it off, they are the last ones to touch my oil cap when they replaced the oil. When I called them on that, they didn't say anything else about it to me. No record of replacing it, no record of a damaged oil cap......crazy to me.

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Old 08-10-2011, 12:45 PM   #8
SACTOWNMOM
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
and i see yours is an 03 saturn l series the 4t45E requires a trans fluid&filter change at 2yrs or every 60k did you do that? also let me clear up another issue.. we do not"they had not reset the computer when bulletins where issued" when a car is in new or powertrain warr we are prohibited from reflashing the ecm/tcm willy nilly for a bullitin unless the car exibits a symptom.. we also do not do it if it is out of warr due to you would not be happy if i asked you for an aditional 45$ for updateing all the calibrations in your car cuz there are at least 15 modules in yours and 15x 45$ each you do the math.. now we will do recall that are a platform specific like 07cts with the 3.6L and 6l80 trans... if global connect lists it as an open campaign.. as for why he is cheaper well all i can say is did you see the gm bagged parts? i'm one of 2 trans/engine guys at my dealer and i see the results of a/m tranny guys..it's not always pretty and you get what you pay for.. he can buy you a serta trans for about 1500 or so depending on the reagon and it will have a 5yr 100k warr on it.. hope the best for you.. this STEALERSHIP TECH out......
Yes I did have the transfluid filter changed 3 months ago and that is when the hard shifting started, sporadically, and only when the engine go too hot. They (dealership) declined to detech an engine coolant leak, brought it to my attention more than once but did nothing about it. Now there is further damage. I would never buy a Saturn again, even if they were still in business. My mechanic talked to the dealership's head saturn tech and he said they should have reflashed the computer but didn't. there are 3 TSB reports out there that GM or Saturn should have taken car of, but didn't. I have taken my vehicles to my new mechanic in the past. But since I was fighting with GM to get them to agree that there is a problem with the intermmediate shaft, steering rack, gear assembly etc (replaced 4 times in a 3 yr time period), I continued to take it to the dealership. All for nothing - they (GM) will not agree that it is a problem.

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Old 08-10-2011, 12:49 PM   #9
SACTOWNMOM
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Reflash Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
this is the tsb your guy is thinking of and it's the only p1811 in the 94-2012 data base
#09-07-30-013A: Intermittent Harsh Upshifts or Downshifts, DTC P1811 (Maximum Adapt and Long Shift) (Reprogram TCM) - (Aug 6, 2009)
Subject:
Intermittent Harsh Upshifts or Downshifts, DTC P1811 (Maximum Adapt and Long Shift) (Reprogram TCM)

Models:
2005-2008 Buick LaCrosse/Allure
Equipped with 3.6L Engine (RPO LY7) and 4T65 Automatic Transmission (RPO M15)
2007 Buick Terraza
2007-2009 Chevrolet Uplander
2007-2009 Pontiac Montana
2007 Saturn Relay
Equipped with 4T65 Automatic Transmission (RPO M15 or M76)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to change the labor time information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-07-30-013 (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Condition
Some customers may comment on harsh or firm upshifts or downshifts. These conditions may be intermittent. Diagnosis may indicate that DTC P1811 (Maximum Adapt and Long Shift) has been set. This condition may also include intermittent harsh upshifts at low speeds when lifting out of throttle, and harsh downshifts at 2-1 coast down, or harsh shifts when rolling to a stop and stepping into the throttle before completely stopped.

Cause
These conditions may be caused by the TCM setting a DTC P1811. This may not be observable on the Tech 2. With a P1811, the SES light is not illuminated, but the transmission defaults to maximum line pressure. While the code is active and at maximum line pressure, all shifts may be harsh including upshifts, downshifts and shifts out of PARK. When the code is not active, most shifts may seem normal. However, the customer may comment on intermittent harsh upshifts and harsh downshifts, and a delay with harsh shifts when rolling to a stop and stepping into throttle before completely stopped.

Correction
An updated TCM calibration has been developed to address this condition. If the Service Information for the conditions described above do not isolate a fault, reprogram the TCM with the latest calibration available. Verify that the multiple diagnostic interface (MDI) that is being used is configured to the PC that will be used
I did not have hard shifts when down-shifting. Only upshifting. And if the Dealership was supposed to update the TCM Calibration, why then did they attempt to tell me that the pressure control solenoid is bad and must be replaced at a cost of close to $800. Shouldn't they have calibrated the TCM at a much lower cost? See - stealership!

Thanks for this post. I am going to talk to my mechanic about it and get his feedback.

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Old 08-10-2011, 12:57 PM   #10
satlite440
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

the reason things cost more at the dealer is we pay a lot more costs then an indie building rent payroll my dealer has 80+ employees with benifits and inventory.. also we are limeted by what gm charges for parts.. i can and have recently rebulit a 4l65e trand for about 450 for a friend of mine with a reaction shell and sun gear....useing aftermarket parts.. the gm o/h kit alone runs 255 my cost and i pay list...i agree gm charges a lot of money for parts but if i told you my dealer only gets about 15$ on that kit and gets taxed quartly on it as inventory 4 times a year ,if it sits on the shelf for 3 quarters any profit is gone in taxes.. also dealers are the only palces left who will make repairs right in my reagon.. out here in seattle if you go to and indie and he fixes it and it's still broke you have no recourse except to sue and there is a 75% chance the court will side with the shop... we have to make it right evan if it's not our fault... again i'm sorry your experence was bad at a dealer.. call gm cust assistance and ask them who has the best topbox scores for service and cust satifaction in your area.. and see them and see if your experence is better i think you will find it is... unfortuneatly there are many substandard dealers out there i get cars from another caddy dealer 35+ miles from us alot and we have customers who travel 150 mile+ and pass several dealers to get to us because we have that reputation and the box scores to prove it.. it's like mcdonalds there are some seedy resturants and you never go back evan if they are around the corner..... you feel me?

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Old 08-10-2011, 01:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

and i noticed you didn't ansewer the mantinace question??????????????? nor mention how many miles??????????

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Old 08-10-2011, 04:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
and i noticed you didn't ansewer the mantinace question??????????????? nor mention how many miles??????????
Actually I did answer the maintenance question if it was having my tranny fluid changed. See my post @ 10:45 am or here it is copied:
Yes I did have the transfluid filter changed 3 months ago and that is when the hard shifting started, sporadically, and only when the engine go too hot. They (dealership) declined to detech an engine coolant leak, brought it to my attention more than once but did nothing about it. Now there is further damage. I would never buy a Saturn again, even if they were still in business. My mechanic talked to the dealership's head saturn tech and he said they should have reflashed the computer but didn't. there are 3 TSB reports out there that GM or Saturn should have taken car of, but didn't. I have taken my vehicles to my new mechanic in the past. But since I was fighting with GM to get them to agree that there is a problem with the intermmediate shaft, steering rack, gear assembly etc (replaced 4 times in a 3 yr time period), I continued to take it to the dealership. All for nothing - they (GM) will not agree that it is a problem.

Mileage - 123,400 plus a few extra miles

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Old 08-10-2011, 04:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Reflash Computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by satlite440 View Post
the reason things cost more at the dealer is we pay a lot more costs then an indie building rent payroll my dealer has 80+ employees with benifits and inventory.. also we are limeted by what gm charges for parts.. i can and have recently rebulit a 4l65e trand for about 450 for a friend of mine with a reaction shell and sun gear....useing aftermarket parts.. the gm o/h kit alone runs 255 my cost and i pay list...i agree gm charges a lot of money for parts but if i told you my dealer only gets about 15$ on that kit and gets taxed quartly on it as inventory 4 times a year ,if it sits on the shelf for 3 quarters any profit is gone in taxes.. also dealers are the only palces left who will make repairs right in my reagon.. out here in seattle if you go to and indie and he fixes it and it's still broke you have no recourse except to sue and there is a 75% chance the court will side with the shop... we have to make it right evan if it's not our fault... again i'm sorry your experence was bad at a dealer.. call gm cust assistance and ask them who has the best topbox scores for service and cust satifaction in your area.. and see them and see if your experence is better i think you will find it is... unfortuneatly there are many substandard dealers out there i get cars from another caddy dealer 35+ miles from us alot and we have customers who travel 150 mile+ and pass several dealers to get to us because we have that reputation and the box scores to prove it.. it's like mcdonalds there are some seedy resturants and you never go back evan if they are around the corner..... you feel me?
All repair shops in California have a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. so if anything goes wrong with the repair my mechanic is doing, he has to fix it. GM Customer Service - they are a joke. Most don't speak good english and they sure as the heck did not help me when the intermmediate shaft was damaged for the 4th time - the gave me a courtesy fix at 50% of the cost - the other 50%, I had to pay. 4 times in 3 yrs - come on now. I take good care of my cars, take it to the dealership for repairs (until now), follow the maintenance requirements and this happens. Makes me wish for a horse and buggy! LOL Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate it.

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