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Old 08-04-2011, 02:14 AM   #1
surreptitious77
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Dizzy SC1 issues.

I've got a 2000 SC1 and it's having some issues.

At first, it was just when driving more than about 30 miles in one trip but then it didn't want to go across my small town. It died on me when I stopped at lights/stop signs and has progressed to trying to die when I'm going down the road. It doesn't idle when parked for long either.

When I park the car and turn it off and leave it off for a little while, it starts up and goes fine for a while and does the same thing.

I replaced the EGR valve this morning and it idled for about 5 mins before it died. I decided to drive it and it got me across town and what not but towards the very end of my short trip it bogged down and tried to die while I was going down the road again...

I don't know what to try now... maybe the cord that is connected to the EGR valve?


I took the car to Pep Boys a few months ago and they told me that I had a pay-box thing in the car that "Buy Here, Pay Here" places install to be sure whoever bought the car finished paying for it. They said that it was wired extremely badly and could be causing the car not to run right... I am open to suggestions on how to take it out efficiently.


And the last thing, I don't think it's idling right. It's not a steady idle, and after a few seconds the rpms drop. There's also a skip in the idle sound... The idle problem may be related to one of the other issues, I don't know.

Thanks

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Old 08-04-2011, 04:41 AM   #2
fdryer
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

I don't know whether your car has this mystery black box that disables the engine if payments aren't made as a lock out device but your Saturn does have a factory theft deterrent system, Passlock, that works with the remote keyless entry fobs. If there's an aftermarket alarm system you're not aware of and possibly interfering with engine running then you'll have to find out for sure as it may mislead everyone here with repair advice. Factory remotes will have GM embossed on the back cover.

The first thing to check is our How-to library about the infamous coolant sensor. If yours is still the original faulty plastic round nosed one, replace it immediately with the flat nosed brass one. This sensor will cause hard starting with rich fuel mixtures, engine flooding, poor mileage, high idling and transmission issues.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surreptitious77 View Post
I took the car to Pep Boys a few months ago and they told me that I had a pay-box thing in the car that "Buy Here, Pay Here" places install to be sure whoever bought the car finished paying for it. They said that it was wired extremely badly and could be causing the car not to run right...
Did they show you this box, and can you take pictures of it? You'll have to host the picture offsite and paste a link or use IMG tags as you won't be able to directly upload a photo for a while.

edit: I did some searching and couldn't find much info on these. Did see one reference that suggests it is only a starter disable so should not affect the idle or car while running. Seems that when a dealer uses something, they tend to go with GPS locators. Having the car not start does not help the dealer if they don't know whre the car is, whereas knowing whre the car is means they can repo it.

I suspect the Pep Boys mis-identified an aftermarket alarm or remote start kit like fdryer is suggesting.

...
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Last edited by alordofchaos; 08-04-2011 at 08:30 AM..

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Old 08-04-2011, 08:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

If you have a remote aftermarket alarm box, just cut it out and resolder the wires.

I had to do this when I bought my HCE (HomeComing Edition)...

...
Bryan

94SL2 HCE, "Pearl"

99 SL

94SL2 260K Miles
1/15

97SW2 266K Miles
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Always
94SC1 340,501 Miles
Org. Engine/Auto Trans
2/97-10/08
Gone 3/12

92SL1
05VUE
91SC

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Old 08-04-2011, 09:50 AM   #5
surreptitious77
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

They didn't show me the box, only told me that it had one and was wired horribly. I'm going to go attempt to find it.

And also check that coolant sensor.

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Old 08-04-2011, 10:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

Look up underneath the dash, where the hood latch is...most likely it is mounted up underneath and near the PCM....with wires running through the firewall to the UHJB (Underhood Junction Block).

The ECTS is the 2 Wire Sensor that is on the driver's side of the engine block underneath the EGR Valve. It is mounted with a deep socket 13MM.

...
Bryan

94SL2 HCE, "Pearl"

99 SL

94SL2 260K Miles
1/15

97SW2 266K Miles
2/15

Always
94SC1 340,501 Miles
Org. Engine/Auto Trans
2/97-10/08
Gone 3/12

92SL1
05VUE
91SC

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Old 08-04-2011, 11:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

Ok, found black box...

It's hanging underneath my dash on the drivers side...

I can't post urls on here until I have 15 posts or more though.

The only words on it are a white label that says warranty void if removed.

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Old 08-04-2011, 11:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

Literally hanging, it's not mounted to anything. Just hanging by the wires. It gets in the way so I tried to tuck it away but it doesn't stay.

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Old 08-05-2011, 07:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

If i cut the wires that go to it and solder them back will that still make the car run as if the box were never there?

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Old 08-05-2011, 08:45 PM   #10
silvergagt04
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Attention Re: SC1 issues.

I have removed many a aftermarket alarm and remote starts from used cars at the dealer I worked for but never ran into a pay or stay box before. I would ASSUME that if you cut it out and resoldered the wires together (by matching colors and wire sizes) it will run as though the box is disconnected and the wiring was never molested.

Having said that I don't know what other components are also related to a system like that. Is it hooked into the ignition system or the fuel system? Is it hooked into the theft system? Only you will know when you cut it out.

A world of advice, solder the wires as you cut them out in small batches. Maybe 4 matching wires at a time, that way there should be not possibility of mixing them up when reconnecting them.

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Old 08-06-2011, 12:35 AM   #11
surreptitious77
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

Before I attempt to take the box out, would that even affect my car dying after five mins of idling or trying to die going down the road?

And how hard/expensive would it be to fix it if resoldering the wires didn't work?

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Old 08-06-2011, 02:01 AM   #12
silvergagt04
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Default Re: SC1 issues.

As I said before, I have never experienced one of these devices before if that is what it is but the standard thing to do when diagnosing a running problem, atleast for me is to remove none factory add-ons. Could it cause a running problem? In my opinion, anythings possible. But no one can guarantee.

As far as how much it is going to cost if removing the device doesn't cure your concern. Well running problems are usually fuel or ignition related. It could be a fuel pump on its way out, or an ignition module that is intermittently shorting internally, or even a loose or bad ground somewhere. It is hard to say when there is more then one possible cause.

If you want to check other things first, go right ahead. I would start with letting it idle until it dies and then taking all the plug wires off of the coils. Remember to mark them before removing if they are not. Then crank the engine and see if your coils are throwing spark. It should be powerful enough to arch off each other. If they don't it is ignition, more then likely a ignition module or crank sensor. If they do then seeing if you have fuel pressure. Check the fuel pressure with the key on and when cranking. If there is none, more then likely if is the fuel pump. That is enough to start with if you don't want to remove the "black box".

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