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Old 04-25-2011, 12:58 PM   #1
jeremu
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Default Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

I'm attempting to remove my SC2 DOCH engine with out removing the transmission. The car has a manual transmission.

I've see the wars for removing engine with or w\o transmission, but I have a specific question about the transmission to engine side of things.

1. After removing pulleys, electrical, etc from engine ... is there anything else to do other than unbolt the 4 transmission bolts to the engine? Do I have to mess with the axle or knuckle?

2. Manual transmission must be on jack after engine removed ... right?

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Old 04-25-2011, 08:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

There is a great video by richpin removing a 99 Saturn SC SOHC with an automatic transmission.

He goes through in great detail everything that needs to be removed. I would recommend watching the video below.

youtube.com/watch?v=GwoOXEX1jrE

...
1998 SL1 Manual Transmission 153 K Miles
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremu View Post
1. After removing pulleys, electrical, etc from engine ... is there anything else to do other than unbolt the 4 transmission bolts to the engine? Do I have to mess with the axle or knuckle?

2. Manual transmission must be on jack after engine removed ... right?
That's why I pulled just the engine by itself.. no need to mess with the axles or alignment. Yes, the transaxle was supported with a jack/block of wood.

Mine was an automatic so I can't comment on the manual specifically.. I'm not positive but, you will also need to remove the pressure plate/flywheel bolts for sure.. IDK if it can just hang there or if the clearance are any different? With the automatic it was really no big deal.

...
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

You can pull an engine and leave an automatic in the car but you are very tight with a manual as the input shaft has to clear the pressure plate unless you remove it and to remove it you have to move the trans as far left as it will go after disconnecting axles. If you separate the tie rod the wheel will turn to the opposite side from the axle far enough to let the axle come out of the hub without separating the lower ball joint. Be careful to not cut the axle boot when doing this.

This is what has to be disconnected to remove the engine and transaxle as a unit. Modify as needed. Write up from Low Saturn.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn1998SL1 View Post
There is a great video by richpin removing a 99 Saturn SC SOHC with an automatic transmission.

He goes through in great detail everything that needs to be removed. I would recommend watching the video below.

youtube.com/watch?v=GwoOXEX1jrE
Thanks Saturn1998SL1.
I've watched this video 10 times. Big BIG help.
I've removed everything except the starter and the sensors back there.
The only thing is I've heard that the manual transmission needs much more clearance.
THANK YOU RICH PIN!

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Old 04-26-2011, 11:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

The transmission input shaft sits at the face of the flywheel and must clear the back of the clutch cover. About an inch and the engine will clear the automatic but you will need 3 to 4 inches with the manual so measure your engine to frame clearance on the right side.

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Old 04-26-2011, 12:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The transmission input shaft sits at the face of the flywheel and must clear the back of the clutch cover. About an inch and the engine will clear the automatic but you will need 3 to 4 inches with the manual so measure your engine to frame clearance on the right side.
I'll measure tonight. I think if I remove the water pump I'll have enough clearance. I'll measure for 4in tonight! THANK YOU. That was the answer I needed.

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Old 04-26-2011, 12:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
You can pull an engine and leave an automatic in the car but you are very tight with a manual as the input shaft has to clear the pressure plate unless you remove it and to remove it you have to move the trans as far left as it will go after disconnecting axles. If you separate the tie rod the wheel will turn to the opposite side from the axle far enough to let the axle come out of the hub without separating the lower ball joint. Be careful to not cut the axle boot when doing this.

This is what has to be disconnected to remove the engine and transaxle as a unit. Modify as needed. Write up from Low Saturn.

Thank YOU! This is great!

Here is what I did so far. Maybe it will help someone else out.

Rich Pins video very correct and not much different from DOHC.
youtube.com/watch?v=GwoOXEX1jrE

I put all the bolts back where they came from so I wouldn't lose any.
Also penetrating oil is your friend. You may want to have a set of bolt extractors and hope you don't have to use them.
GET A MARKER AND TAPE TO LABEL ALL CONNECTIONS.

A. Started at the top left (driver's side) of the car.
1. Remove the air tubing from the throttle body and then every thing down from there (air filter box, snorkeler, ect.). Be careful because there is a sensor attached.
2. Remove the battery and tray. One of the tray battery bolts you remove from the wheel well. I remove the bolt with the tire on.
3. Remove Spark plug wires and coil packs. Not needed, but it's easy and less confusion on the left (drivers) side with all those wires.
4. Remove the bracket that holds the fuel lines on the engine. little bit of a pain to get the back bolt. Now disconnect the fuel lines. If you didn't depressurize the fuel lines fuel will come out. Move fuel lines and bracket aside.
5. Remove the ground wires that are on both of the top transmission to engine bolts. Move negative battery cable out of the way.

B. Now lets move to the front of the car
1. Remove the exhaust manifold. Could just disconnect the manifold from the exhaust pipe and the O2 sensor, but I wanted more clearance and less confusion. Probably same amount of work either way.
2. Remove radiator fan, top and bottom hoses and radiator. I removed the hoses from the engine as well along with the thermostat. (I stripped the thermostat bolt. OUCH)

C. Right side (passenger's side)
1. Remove hoses and connector to radiator fill tank.
- OPTIONAL Remove radiator fill tank (One bolt at top).
- ALSO OPTIONAL disconnect and remove windshield washer reservoir. EASY
1. Jack and support car from passengers side and remove wheel.
2. Remove the 2 plastic splash shields.
3. Remove Belt.
4. A/C - Disconnect and remove A/C from bracket and remove bracket. Don't disconnect hoses. Set A/C aside.
5. Power Steering Pump - Remove the connector and 5 bolts like in Rich Pins video. I removed the drain hose first. You are gonna want to drain the fluid or your gonna get oil everywhere. Now here is where I had some problems. First getting the pump to a place to be accessible is bit of a pain. With some finesse and brute force I got it on top of the engine, but scratched the cam cover a little. I attempted to remove the pulley with a pulley remover tool like the video, but it didn't work. so I just removed the 16mm bolt in the back and then called it a day. DO THIS IN THE DAY OR WITH LOST OF LIGHT.
6. Alternator - Remove the plastic shield (10mm bolt and then snaps off). Remove and unbolt the two connectors. Remove two bolts that hold alternator in place. remove top bolt first.
7. Water pump - Remove pulley. Video doesn't say remove pump, but I'm gonna for extra clearance.
8. Remove pulleys and tensioner. I haven't done yet. I'll update when I'm done.
9. With impact wrench remove crank shaft pulley. Not done yet. I haven't done yet. I'll update when I'm done.

D. Top of engine fire wall side
1. Disconnect throttle cable.
2. Disconnect the two connectors on throttle body.
3. On the other side remove the MAP sensor connector.
4. Remove all 4 fuel injector connectors.
5. Remove break booster hose in the very back. (I removed the hose from the break booster first to relive pressure.

E. Bottom of engine (Not done yet)
1. Starter
2. Oil pressure sensor.
3. Knock Sensor connector.
4. Crankshaft position sensor connector.
5. CCP solenoid vacuum hose.
6. Ground cable.
7. heater hose.
8. Drain oil.

Now on to removing the top and bottom (passenger side) engine mounts and transmission (If I have enough clearance. I'll be back!

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

All kinds of extra annoyance to save...$8ish & 3qt of ATF....

Don't forget the passenger side axle, where it bolts a brace to the block, and the engine/transmission brace. The brace will keep the engine/transmission together on you and the axle would pop outta the transmission thereby not saving you a thing.

I've never bothered the coolant & washer reservoir. I've also never bothered disconnecting the P/S pump, but it may be needed for your extra annoying way

...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)

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Old 04-26-2011, 02:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
All kinds of extra annoyance to save...$8ish & 3qt of ATF....
Is that it really? I'm sure taking the transmission out is a PITA right?
Axle, Shifter, Electrical, Etc.
I don't know. Transmissions are a complete mystery to me ... maybe it's easier than I thought. And maybe I might find out if I don't have the clearance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
I've never bothered the coolant & washer reservoir.
Completely optional. I know ... I justified it when I told myself I would paint the engine bay ... which I'll not do anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fetchitfido View Post
I've also never bothered disconnecting the P/S pump, but it may be needed for your extra annoying way
P/S pump ... What do you do then?

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Old 04-26-2011, 03:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

PS pump: Keep poking it outta the way as the engine come's forward & up.

Transmission: 2 cables on the transmission (clipped in with 4 clips), the VSS and the reverse light switch are the only sensitive things holding it in. Pop the ball joint & TRE and the axles come right out, no alignment necessary from my experience. Then, when lifting the engine out, raise the serp belt side ~12in high first and that should angle it enough for the transmission to bypass the brake master cylinder.
Oh, and try to keep the clutch slave cylinder lower then the clutch master cylinder...somehow reversing that allows air in (or so I'm told).

...
The proper way to fix a S-Series automatic is to replace it with a 5spd O:)

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Old 04-26-2011, 10:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The transmission input shaft sits at the face of the flywheel and must clear the back of the clutch cover. About an inch and the engine will clear the automatic but you will need 3 to 4 inches with the manual so measure your engine to frame clearance on the right side.
3in EXACTLY. That's a tight squeeze. Also, where the top idle pulley comes out has a cylinder that comes out about 1/2in. giving me little less room.

What to do what to do.

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Old 03-27-2016, 10:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

93 SL1 manual transmission:
I've got the engine, tranny, cradle, axles & steering knuckles out as an assembly. I'm attempting to separate the engine for rebuilding but I can't get it to break loose from the tranny. All four attaching bolts are out, and the bracket that holds the shaft to the engine block has been disconnected. I've disconnected the engine dogbone mount to the cradle and I've got the cradle wedged into the legs of a hoist while using a comealong (manual winch) to exert force to pull the engine away from the tranny. The best I've been able to achieve is a one inch gap between engine & tranny on one side of the tranny and nothing on the other. Even a prybar inserted into the gap isn't working to separate them. What gives?

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Old 03-28-2016, 10:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Many pulls later I always pull the engine and trans as a pair. It's only a few more steps but the time I save on aligning the trans later on and trying to seal it all up in the car is worth it. It also significantly reduces the amount of time spent under the car to just lowering the downpipe and jackshaft.

I'm pretty consistently under an hour to remove the pair when proper tools are around (not necessarily air but at least a cordless hex driver)

...
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1997 Saturn SC2 Turbo
sixthsphere.com/showthread.php/89737

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Old 07-30-2017, 10:31 AM   #15
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Did you actually manage to remove the engine without the transmission? I'm getting ready to attempt an engine swap and not having to figure out how to remove an axle would save me a lot of broken parts

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Old 07-30-2017, 01:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

If you are making reference to the post above by SC2Sick, he is recommending to pull both engine and trans together as a unit. You can pull the engine of an automatic trans car alone separate from the auto trans relatively easily. This is not the case for a manual trans car.

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Old 07-30-2017, 10:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

Thats concerning.. I don't know much about suspension work. I'm about 90% ready to pull the engine with most components unplugged and taken off. But if I'm going to take out the transmission also how hard is it to pop out the axles? What if I simply took off the timing cover to free up another 2in?

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Old 07-31-2017, 07:58 AM   #18
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

The right hand side comes right out of the intermediate shaft and then the shaft just pills out of the trans. The left hand requires a careful application of force at the back side of the inner CV housing without bending or destroying the seal. Use search for axle remove and you will get all the info/pix on disconnecting the lower ball joint. You can not jut pull the engine with a manual trans and you can not get the clutch and flywheel out of the way without separating the LCA ball joints on the left side. The crankshaft will never clear the right hand frame rail regardless of what you take off of the right hand end of the engine.

Search box at the top center of this page.....

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Old 07-31-2017, 08:23 AM   #19
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

I did this for the first time ever recently. Not a big deal. Page 4 of my rebuild thread.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=230898&page=4

...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, owned since new
5 speed manual
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!

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Old 07-31-2017, 12:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Engine Removal Clearance Manual Transmission

I remove the balancer as well as most of what is talked about above. It is tight but it will come out.

Highmile
"95 SL1 635k and counting

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