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Old 04-24-2011, 06:28 PM   #1
siasil
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2001 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default L300 will not idle, PO313, Need Help!

Hi All,
I'm at my wits end. My step son has a 2001 Saturn L300 V6 3.0L. About 3 weeks ago he called and said it was running rough and didn't trust driving it, so we had it towed home. The car was bought used about 6 months ago and his father had the timing belt replaced. So the repair began.

Knowing these cars have a timing belt, we took the engine apart and finally got down to the timing belt. I found that the timing belt was in good shape, but the person who had replaced it, had not replaced the pulley's and tensioner. I took the tensioner off after finding a bunch of shavings on the water pump. Sure enough, the tensioner was grinding itself apart. We ordered a new kit from the local auto parts store and two days later, I replaced all of the pulleys and belt again. Put it back together and started it up and it started, but there were backfires in the plenum when we tried to give it gas.

So, I tore it apart again, and double checked the sproket, and cam shaft marks again, reset everything and put it all back together. When we started it the second time, same thing, it would not hold idle. We kept getting PO300 codes, so my friend tried to block the intake to the throttle body with a book, and it would hold idle when we did this. So, Next step was to disassemble the plenum.

When I did, I found that the screws holding the EGR passage to the plenum were loose(someone was in here before), so I checked all of the boots, and cleaned the throttle body, bought a new gasket, and put it all back together. This time when we started it, it was a little better, but it still will not hold an idle, for the first 30 seconds after a cold start, it will jump to 1000-1200 RPMS, and quickly start dropping till the engine stalls. If we rev it up from a cold start, it will run, though you can hear it missing. Holding it at 2500-3000 RPMs will keep it running.

This time we pulled the codes a few times, and PO313 showed up, and a couple times we got a cylinder 3 misfire code (PO303), so, I thought, coil packs are a common problem, and went down and bought new spark plugs and replaced all of the spark plugs and 1,3,5 coil pack. The old plugs were black with carbon, and you can smell the gas on them.

So, Tried to start it again, and same behavior. I have checked the throttle body vacuum lines for bad connections, and replaced a couple hoses that were cracked or questionable.

So, I'm not sure what to try next. I'm pretty confident that the timing is correct after checking it twice. The plenum and throttle body should be good, though I can't remember if the o-ring under the plenum was there. Now that I have eliminated the rear coil pack, I'm not sure what would cause the p0313 error and the behavior I'm seeing. Whatever it is, it seems to kick in about 15-30 seconds after a cold start. Any advice is appreciated in advance!

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Old 04-24-2011, 07:52 PM   #2
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: L300 will not idle, PO313, Need Help!

P0313 Misfire Detected With Low Fuel

I'm not sure what this means unless very little fuel is being injected; low fuel pressure, clogged fuel filter, etc.. There may be an open somewhere on the intake air supply that's not allowing 100% air to flow through the maf sensor. The maf sensor is an air measuring sensor between the air filter and throttle body. The intake air tubing must be sealed as well as all the rubber flex couplings joining the two intake runners to the main intake manifold. Any vacuum leak will cause misfires.

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Old 04-24-2011, 08:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: L300 will not idle, PO313, Need Help!

Thanks for the reply, There are 4 circle clamps between the air intake and the throttle body. I have check to be sure they are tight. I'll take the MAF out and check it.

The interesting thing was that I unplugged the EGR and got a code. I unplugged the MAF and didn't get a code. But, but the same token, I unplugged the MAP and didn't get a code either. I'm scratching my head!

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Old 04-24-2011, 09:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: L300 will not idle, PO313, Need Help!

Let me add then when I start the engine, if I give it gas as soon as it starts, it will rev up to 3000 RPMs or better, if i wait a few seconds and then try to give it gas, I hear it trying to backfire in the plenum. So, it would seem that its getting too much fuel, and not enough air.

Besides throwing more money at the problem, I'm interested in ways to start eliminating possibilities. Since I have checked the timing at least twice, and I believe I've eliminated the leaks into the plenum, what would be the next item to eliminate? I have multi-meters and various tools to test them with...

I'm pretty sure that the initial problem, I'm still chasing. The timing tensioner was definitely going bad, and I'm pretty sure that the timing was at least one, maybe even two teeth off. I know as well, that there was a leak in the EGR tube where it connected to the plenum, so, even though I have resolved those, I believe that my sons problems may have been contributed to by the previous issues, but not necessarily the problem he still has now.

Thanks for all the time and advice!
Nick

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Old 04-24-2011, 10:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: L300 will not idle, PO313, Need Help!

Just found this on a BMW forum for the P0313 error. Since I know that some BMW's use the same engine, it is worth a read...

A perfect example of wrongly identified and translated OBDII DTC by a Generic code reader!
This code is cross-references to BMW DTC 238 (P1342,P1343), Misfire cyl.#1 with fuel cut-off - during warm up.
It sounds different now, than the description of the generic P0313, right?
I guess your car wasn't run low on fuel, was it?
This code could set when the counted misfire reached the threshold at the initial start, usually within the first 3000 revolution. Misfire is measured by crankshaft speed fluctuation.
Anyway, a common cause is carbon built-up on the valves, which at cold cranking could absorb a big chunk of the vaporized fuel - just like a sponge, therefor the fuel mixture will be very lean, causing misfire at least during a warm-up.
You can even feel the misfire, the engine runs unevenly, which smooth out after warming up.
I'd get the fuel pressure checked - just in case, and perform a professional combustion chamber / valve cleaning. This could be done by the use of a special solvent and equipment.
Of course it could be caused by foamed up fuel (air bubbles in the fuel system) due to very low fuel in the gas tank, but this is the most common problem.
You need to find a good BMW specialty shop with the right equipments, including OE diagnostic computer to identify the problem correctly. Generic scanners will cause confusion - especially for someone who isn't familiar with the car - and you can spend a lot for unnecessary repairs.

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Old 04-24-2011, 11:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: L300 will not idle, PO313, Need Help!

Ok, found this and I'm not sure if it would apply to the L300 since it has the same engine, but it sounds like the same problem!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 02 Vue - 3.0 Backfire Valve.pdf (121.2 KB, 50 views)

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Old 04-24-2011, 11:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: L300 will not idle, PO313, Need Help!

Heres my take on the situation:

Either the timing is still not right somehow,
or
There is a completely different problem not related at all (fuel delivery - fuel pump, filter, etc).
or
The timing was off after the tensioner or water pump or whatever went bad, and bent valves. That will set off a misfire DTC.

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