SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Vue > Vue Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-09-2011, 10:43 AM   #1
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

My 2005 saturn vue ran out of gas the other day, it was chugging along when I got to work so at lunch I was going to put gas in it but when I tried to start it it would not start so I put gas in it from a gas can I borrowed and tried to start it, it would not start, It now has 1/2 tank of gas and will not start, I get fuel out of the shroder valve up at the engine but I don't know how much pressure there is, I hear the fuel pump turning on, I replaced the battery, the coil pack, plugs and plug wires to get it started but it will not start, I turned the key to start it, it will backfire a couple of times but the engine will not turn over. Its been a week and I cannot get it started, Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 03-09-2011, 12:22 PM   #2
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to all
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 6,769
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Does security light remain on after key's been ON for a few seconds? If no - suspect the crankshaft position sensor (CKP) - I'll provide more info for that critter at bottom of this post.

If yes ... Passlock inhibits fuel to engine ... basic relearn follow:

30-Minute Learn Procedure

1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON, vehicle will not start.
3. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF.
4. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.
5. Repeat steps 1-4 two more times for a total of 3 cycles/30 minutes. The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlockô Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.

Important
The vehicle learns the Passlockô Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.

6. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlockô Sensor Data Code and/or password.
7. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed. History DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles.

If security light is not ON - go to following thread - post # 3 has data to check the CKP:

http://saturnfans3.saturnfans.com/~s...08#post1715108

...
"Good judgement comes from experience - and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." ... Will Rogers

Last edited by far2grumpy; 03-09-2011 at 12:31 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 01:23 PM   #3
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Another problem, when I turn the key to the on position I hear a clicking noise up by the fuse box, the fuel pump comes on then shuts off but I still hear the clicking noise like a switch shutting off and on every couple of seconds. Is this normal?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 02:05 PM   #4
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to all
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 6,769
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanous View Post
Another problem, when I turn the key to the on position I hear a clicking noise up by the fuse box, the fuel pump comes on then shuts off but I still hear the clicking noise like a switch shutting off and on every couple of seconds. Is this normal?
So - are you saying the security light does not stay on and the CKP passed electrical continuity test ... or you feel the clicking noise could be the problem?

Momentary fuel pump run and shut-off is normal ... unless key to turned to start.

I don't know about clicking as I don't have 2.2 engine. You mention "up by fuse box" ... there's two fuse boxes - one in center console and one under-hood near battery.

Could the clicking be coming from near the hazard switch?

You mentioned checking fuel pressure at Schrader valve - did it spew with a lots of force - very subjective topic - you may ask around (auto parts stores) to see if someone will lend/rent a fuel pressure gauge.

...
"Good judgement comes from experience - and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." ... Will Rogers

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 02:47 PM   #5
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

the clicking noise is definitaly up by the engine, and yes I have spewing fuel out of the valve but the car will not start, it putters a couple of seconds but will not turn over, so confusing.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 12:34 PM   #6
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to all
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 6,769
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanous View Post
the clicking noise is definitaly up by the engine, and yes I have spewing fuel out of the valve but the car will not start, it putters a couple of seconds but will not turn over, so confusing.
Any updates?

Have you verified the sparkplugs are firing?

If no spark while cranking - consult CKP files mentioned in post # 2.

...
"Good judgement comes from experience - and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." ... Will Rogers

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 08:57 PM   #7
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

test spark plugs, all four are firing when we tested them, we took them out of the head and they were firing when we cranked the engine, we put them back in, we get backfire acouple of times but nothing, the engine will not turn over, we checked fuel pressure and it is 50 psi and 60 psi when we cranked, the injectors are spraying all four and the cylindars are firing when we tested the injectors after cleaning them off, but no turn over, just back fire and nothing, we were thinking that there is not enough air to mix well with the fuel to fire the engine, because when we pull the spark plugs out they are wet and gunked up a little, and these are new plugs when that we used. could a scanner tester show us that there is no air or a valve open or closed, or could it be the timing chain that is not turning the engine over. how do we test this, what is the next step, so what I have so far is that

1. we have spark,
2. we have enough fuel and fuel pressure
3. enough fuel in the tank,

The check engine lite was on before this happened a couple of days ago but autozone scanner did not find anything then it turned off, I was 2 miles from work and it was chugging along, loss of power then I pulled in the parking lot, turned the key off, waited until lunch time, then it would not start, so I put gas in it and still nothing.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 09:35 PM   #8
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to all
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 6,769
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Wow ... in simple terms - items needed for internal combustion are: (1) fuel-air mixture, (2) properly compressed fuel-air mix, (3) spark, and (4) previous three items happening at correct time.

Make sure the air induction system is good - air cleaner not clogged, hoses not collapsed, and peek into throttle body to insure the butterfly valve is partially open. Also, check that vacuum hoses and fittings are connected and leak-free.

The correct method to clear a flooded engine (fouled cylinders and plugs) is to crank for a few seconds with gas pedal pressed to the floor. This will prevent fuel flow to injectors and give the plugs a chance to burn residual fuel in cylinder. If the engine stumbles and attempts to start - release pedal and ECM should try to establish idle RPM fuel flow.

A quick check for compression - meaning timing chain is in one piece and trying to operate valves - is if engine cranks (turns-over) normally - in other words - under load. If you engage the starter and engine cranks (spins) faster than normal there's probably a compression problem (broken or slipped timing chain, one or more stuck valves, broken piston, etc.).

I don't know if the 2.2 is a clearance engine - meaning if a broken timing chain would cause serious damage to valve and pistons. If it is a clearance engine, there'd be a helluva noise when the chain failed - at least until the valves were bent and broken.

If the engine cranks too fast - you still need to do a test to determine how many cylinders have lost compression. If all - suspect the chain - if one or two - suspect stuck valves.

There's a service manual extract for compression testing in post # 2 of this thread:

http://saturnfans3.saturnfans.com/~s...d.php?t=162485

...
"Good judgement comes from experience - and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." ... Will Rogers

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 08:41 PM   #9
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

update, no codes using the code scanner from autozone, still confused on what it can be, could it be the starter going bad, I don't know

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 09:26 AM   #10
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to all
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 6,769
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanous View Post
update, no codes using the code scanner from autozone, still confused on what it can be, could it be the starter going bad, I don't know
Its not surprising AZ code reader failed to find one.

Why do you suspect starter? Is it not spinning engine as expected?

Other basic questions:

Have you checked compression?

Have you checked CKP resistance?

...
"Good judgement comes from experience - and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." ... Will Rogers

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 12:26 PM   #11
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

I haven't tested the cmk resistance, I will check that, could it be a bad ICM, I replaced one 6 months ago because of a misfire on 2 and four and raw fuel was getting into my catalytic conveter and burned the pipe clean off at the end of the converter and possibly burned all the stuff inside of it so its hallow, after I replaced it it ran just fine.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 12:59 PM   #12
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to all
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 6,769
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanous View Post
I haven't tested the cmk resistance, I will check that, could it be a bad ICM, I replaced one 6 months ago because of a misfire on 2 and four and raw fuel was getting into my catalytic conveter and burned the pipe clean off at the end of the converter and possibly burned all the stuff inside of it so its hallow, after I replaced it it ran just fine.
mcanous ... I know you must be frustrated as all get out.

You mentioned four plugs firing in an earlier post which indicates there's not a ICM or CKP issue (unless intermittent).

The fact that you previously "cooked" a catalytic converter might indicate one or more valves could be damaged and/or head-gasket is leaking.

I'm out of thoughts and suggestions - but will repeat - you may want to do a compression test.

...
"Good judgement comes from experience - and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." ... Will Rogers

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:58 AM   #13
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Vue 4cyl won't start

What should the CMK resistance be and how to test it, I found the sensor after taking off the starter its behind it,

bill

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 01:13 PM   #14
far2grumpy
Master Member
far2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to allfar2grumpy is a name known to all
 
far2grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 6,769
 

2005 VUE 3.5L
2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Vue 4cyl won't start

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanous View Post
What should the CMK resistance be and how to test it, I found the sensor after taking off the starter its behind it,

bill
Bill ... a good crankshaft position sensor (CKP) will have 800 - 1200 ohms resistance.

There's more CKP test information in post # 2 of this tread (follow the link).

...
"Good judgement comes from experience - and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." ... Will Rogers

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to far2grumpy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help far2grumpy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
far2grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 12:29 PM   #15
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

replaced the crank shaft sensor, the old on tested at 652 ohms, tried to start it, still won't crank over, it backfires a couple times like before. Could it be my ICM again. Any Help would be greatfull.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 03:27 PM   #16
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,703
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Try charging up the battery and start with the gas pedal floored; this shuts off all injectors while starting to clear a flooded engine. If you saw wet plugs and didn't dry them or run the starter a second or two with the plugs out to blow out any raw fuel, the cylinders will continually stay wet since the engine is cold started every time. Electronics still needs a human interface when things go wrong; a flooded engine needs human intervention, severely worn out spark plugs needs someone to replace them, a dead starter..........etc., etc.. Sometimes engines will flood when given the right circumstances and you might have unintentionally discovered another one by failing to keep the gas tank from emptying out; air will be sucked in and create some issues until its either bled out from normal engine running within the first few minutes or leave you with other issues, possibly a flooding situation from many starting attempts while the engine fails to fire up. The engine computer only senses a cold engine so its going to continue to enrich the fuel mixture - your situation. Flooring the pedal while starting will suck in more air while the injectors are shut off to dry out every cylinder as the ignition finally sparks the right air/fuel mixture to fire up the engine.

Engines don't know they're flooded at start up and human intervention (flooring the gas pedal) is still needed.

If the engine fires up don't let it rev to high rpm. Let the engine run normally to warm up as it rids itself of the excess fuel that may have drained below the pistons into the oil pan. A drive will straighten everything out. An overnight battery charge will help to bring the battery up to full charge otherwise driving at least an hour without all the lights/heater blower/defroster running can help charge the battery.

Don't let the tank run empty.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 05:20 PM   #17
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

allright, did a compression test on all cylindars, somehow i don'tknow i the tool is giving me the right reading but I get no compression on all cylindars, I see the pistons moving up and down but I get no compression, I followed the instructions by taking all the spark plugs out and then testing, but nothing.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 07:45 PM   #18
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,703
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Are you familiar with using a compression gauge? They're basically the same as using a tire gauge except they read higher pressures. If you're not familiar with using pressure gauges then Google youtube videos for a primer. Use another car if possible; most cars will pressurize and read around 180 psi.

If you are still reading all zeros on every cylinder then there's a serious problem with the engine requiring either more testing with another gauge or a tear down of the cylinder head to see what's damaged.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 12:39 PM   #19
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

no more trouble guys, found out that my timing chain is loose, when we take the valve cover off and rotate the engine by hand the chain is really loose and one of the guides is broke, that's why I got a rattling noise when idle, I should have thought of it before, So this weekend we are going to replace the timing on my vue.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 09:38 AM   #20
mcanous
Junior Member
mcanous is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Default Re: 2005 Saturn Bue 4cyl won't start

Ok new problem, replaced engine from a 2005 saturn ion same engine, hooked everything up, now when I drive it down the road, all my dashboard lights go haywire and then it just stops and dies on the side of the road, now I cannot start it, the key will turn on and the lights will turn on but it will not crank. I have a check engine light on and the symbol of a car with a wrench, any ideas, another question is that when I hook up the battery negative, where does the other part of the wire go to, does it go to the frame or to the alternator

thanks,

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mcanous's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mcanous reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mcanous is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shifter bushing? for 4cyl 2005 Vue Katt275 Vue Tech 4 10-01-2011 06:26 PM
2005 Saturn Ion Difficult to Start rotty john Ion Tech 3 02-23-2009 05:04 PM
2005 4cyl ,oil change procedure 4thman Vue Tech 6 04-18-2006 06:05 PM
2005 4cyl wheels burnout Vue General 7 09-22-2004 09:20 PM
supercharger standard on 2005 4cyl vue!! silvervoo Vue General 7 04-01-2004 10:00 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.