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Old 12-16-2010, 02:25 AM   #1
Frankd1
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1998 SL1
Default Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

I found some holes in the front pipe just before the flex pipe, also, the braided cover around the flex pipe has come loose - I attached a diagram with some notes on it.

Couple of questions:

1. I'm going to replace the gasket between the manifold and front pipe as well as the 3 studs and nuts, but what about the clamp that goes around the bottom of the down pipe and slides onto the hanger and also the two rubber dampers?

2. Is it ok to cut the back of the flex pipe prior to the cat con in the area that I marked on the diagram?

3. Is it ok to attach the new flex pipe to the section of pipe leading into the cat con with a larger diameter coupler with two pipe clamps, or does this area need to be welded? Would the coupler and clamps be sufficient to prevent noise and leaks?

4. Any ideas on part numbers for the down pipe/flex pipe?

The diagram is attached as a PDF file.....

Thanks!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Saturn exhaust.pdf (125.5 KB, 387 views)

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Old 12-16-2010, 06:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

you may just want to get a new down/flex pipe. It will be way easier and a guaranteed fix.

...
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:04 AM   #3
Frankd1
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

I will definately be replacing the down/front pipe and flex pipe from the manifold up to the cat con with one unit.....its just that the cat seems to be in good shape (i will bang on it again) and it passes emissions testing so there would be no point in replacing that.

Was your suggestion to replace the cat as well?

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Old 12-16-2010, 09:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

You can buy downpipes that you weld on in front of the cat. I think Walker makes one. Check at the auto stores, and if they don't have one, check online. However, when I looked into it a year ago, I don't think it cost much more to get one with a cat, so if you think you'll ever need a new cat, it would make sense to get the whole thing. It's probably easier to install, if the bolts on the flange behind the cat aren't too rusty (I think I had to cut off all of the bolts when I installed my cat-back--they were just lumps of rust).

edit: Advance sells the walker part: http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...___#fragment-1

But with the crush bends and the fact that it's probably not stainless steel, I doubt that part is near as good as the OE part--there might be some better ones out there for a similar price.

second edit: You can get the same part a lot cheaper on rockauto.com.

As for welding vs a clamp: you should weld it or have it welded if possible. A clamp will probably work, but I don't think it's a good long-term solution.

...
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Last edited by PlasticCarsRock; 12-16-2010 at 09:41 AM..

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Old 12-16-2010, 09:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

Well thats a good solution if you can find a catless pipe. I wouldnt want to spend money on a whole new cat either

...
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

I recently did a complete replacement of my exhaust system on my '96 SL2 so here's my experience.

1. Manifold-downpipe gasket - replace. Cheap.

2. Studs/nuts - mine were OK. They will be rusty, but not overly corroded,
not a lot of moisture gets up there. To remove them I hit them with a
wire brush and then PB Blaster a few times in the days leading up to the
job. When I did the job it was PB and wire brush again. They broke loose
without too much effort. I was able to re-use all studs and nuts. Good
thing, I don't know where I would have gotten the studs. A nice long
extension for your ratchet will make a big difference.

3. Downpipe clamp. You will at least need to replace the bolt and "nut",
they'll be too rusted to do anything other than cut. You might be able
to salvage the clamp - cut the bolt and just spread it open to remove
the pipe, but I would plan on replacing.

4. Rubber mounts - replace. Yours are 12 years old and replacements
are cheap.

Can't comment on where to cut, on my job the whole flex pipe and cat were one assembly. Be sure to err on cutting too little rather than too much.

Other thoughts:

If you have air, get something like this. Extremely handy for this kind of work. I did my whole exhaust didn't use my Sawzall once:

harborfreight.com/3-inch-high-speed-air-cutter-47077.html

If your cat is in good shape, I think you're taking the right approach by just replacing the down/flex pipe. Messing with the cat and O2 sensor adds another layer of hassle and expense. But make sure and check the cat-intermediate pipe connection. My flanges were gone and had failed.

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Old 12-16-2010, 12:18 PM   #7
Frankd1
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

Thanks for the input guys!!

PlasticCarsRock,

That looks like the part I need, I will check out Rock Auto for pricing. Thats a Walker, are there anyother brands out there that are decent? I'm not opposed to using Walker - I've used their mufflers before - just wasn't sure if there are other options...

As far as welding it up at the cat, I can take it somewhere to have that done, I'm not too confidant doing that in tight confines.

If it does get welded, a coupler would still be used to connect the back of the flex to the front of the cat and then welded on either end correct?

I will double check everything with the cat and the flange to the intermediate pipe connection and if everything looks good then I will leave the cat.

Thanks for the steps sneaker!

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Old 12-16-2010, 12:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

I just replaced the entire exhaust system on one of my friends' SL2. I purchased the converter/down pipe assembly from summit racing. The down pipe and converter are made by Walker and they are made out of 409 stainless steel. It should have around the same life as the OEM one. The best part is it's around $160 rather than the $700 unit from Saturn.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-15842/

If you are interested in this one I would call them to confirm the part number.

...
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

PlasticCarsRock,

I just did some checking and the part number that you referrenced from advanced auto was 52166 for $92.99 but it says not compatible with a 98 sl1.

Looking at Rock Auto they show part no. 52165 for $67.79....now going back to the advanced auto website shows 52165 for $68.99 and compatible with the 98 sl1, so I'm guessing that this is the one.....

This exhaust parts shopping gets a little confusing!!

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Old 12-16-2010, 12:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

Frank, with your mileage, I would seriously consider ordering a downpipe with CAT like an Eastern or something even from Rockauto and just being done with the whole thing.

That way if your cat goes bad in a year, you don't have to do it again.

They are not even that much $ for the whole thing.

...
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

^^^^^ +1; esp. given you do NOT want to just clamp between the flexpipe and cat. ESP with a coupler. If the flexpipe were a slip-fit INSIDE the cat inlet, a clamp job MIGHT work. But a coupler on the OUTSIDE of the cat inlet is a leak (and most likely a P0420) waiting to happen. Welding it is the only sure-fire way to go, and that gets you close in price (unless you live in a part of the country where labor is cheap) to the price of a complete bolt-on assembly. Don't forget, too, that used catalytics contain platinum, and are of significant resale value.

As for the strap-clamp that attaches to the support from the engine at the bottom of the bend, you'll probably be replacing that anyway, as you'll most likely break the bolt off upon removal. IIRC, I ended up using a regular exhaust clamp to replace it, and just didn't reef it down like one would when joining two sections of pipe.

I see no need to replace those rubber hangers, unless they look really deteriorated. Replacing the manifold-to-downpipe studs might prove to be a pain; if the nuts come off without incident, I would just reuse them. Anoint them with PB-Blaster a couple of times in advance of the project.

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Old 12-16-2010, 01:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

I just did some checking and the part number that you referrenced from advanced auto was 52166 for $92.99 but it says not compatible with a 98 sl1.

Looking at Rock Auto they show part no. 52165 for $67.79....now going back to the advanced auto website shows 52165 for $68.99 and compatible with the 98 sl1, so I'm guessing that this is the one.....

This exhaust parts shopping gets a little confusing!![/QUOTE]

Those examples were just examples to show what was available--they're not necessarily for your car--the one I linked from Advance was probably for my car (a '95 SL2). Don't buy what's in the links, search for it specifying your own car--at Advance, just search for "exhaust", on Rockauto, just navigate to the exhaust section (after specifying your car).

Sorry--should have been more clear about that.

...
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

So after thinking about this a little further I think I may do what some of you have suggested, and that is to just replace the whole unit - down pipe, flex pipe and cat - with a direct fit, one piece bolt in unit.

It might cost a bit more but I won't have to worry about cutting pipes and then trying to clamp and weld afterwards, this way I can unbolt the old and bolt in the new!

As Craig mentioned, I have 195,000 miles on the car and another e-test coming up in a year and although it has been passing the tests up to this point who knows what will happen with the OE cat between now and then....

As far as I know the manufacturers that I can choose from are: Walker, Bosal and Eastern.

- Is there any reason to choose one over the other?

- How are these aftermarket "direct fit" units when it comes to installation and fit? Do they line up pretty well with the manifold and intermediate pipe?

- Do these aftermarket cats perform well when it comes to emissions?

- my car is a Michigan car, so I'm guessing that I need to stick with the Federal Emissions spec?

- sometimes they specify a before and after VIN spec, the last few digits in my vin are: wz119109, I'm sure why this is relevant?

Rock Auto has:

- Eastern Cat, Direct fit with federal emissions, part no. 50411, $221.79

- Bosal cat, direct fit with federal emissions, part no. 0795149, $260.79

I can't seem to find any one piece units from Walker.....

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Old 12-18-2010, 01:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

Bump!

I just had a couple of questions in the above post, thanks!

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Old 12-18-2010, 02:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

Try a google product search, too--you can find a lot of them that way. I'm not sure if walker makes a full assembly, but it seems like they should...

I think you'd be fine with anything that bolts up, regarding emissions (as long as your not in california), but I'm not positive (I have a '95 so I don't need to worry about that, all I need is no check engine light).

If the price is the same, look for one that's stainless steel and has mendrel bends, not crush bends (which look wrinkly on the inside of the bend). The factory exhaust is mendrel bent, which it's just a smooth bend. Crush bends add resistance to the exhaust flow, which creates more back-pressure, hurting efficiency (slightly) and power. I doubt it would be a very noticeable difference, but if the prices aren't too different, obviously go with the better one.

Here's an example found with google search: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/de...1&apwidzhLMuxk

I'm not sure if it's the right year or anything, but I'm sure the same product is available for other years. Magnaflow is a good brand--it's stainless steel and mendrel bent (and cheaper than either of the prices you listed). (It's hard to see in the picture, but it looks mendrel bent--they could probably confirm if you called them.) If it were me, I'd probably get the magnaflow one (although I'd need to do some more research first).

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Last edited by PlasticCarsRock; 12-18-2010 at 02:32 PM..

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Old 12-21-2010, 04:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

Thanks PlasticCars, that site has pretty good prices which is surprising because I think that is the same place that sells the PCV valve for $14!!

They have a decent selection of magna flow, eastern and catco....I noticed that there are 2 of each so I'm thinking that one is for Cali cars and the other is for 49 state/federal/Canada cars. I will go to the individual websites and check the part numbers.

Here are some pics from when I was underneath yesterday:
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg Car 019.jpg (103.8 KB, 67 views)
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File Type: jpg Car 026.jpg (141.3 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg Car 027.jpg (121.2 KB, 101 views)

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Old 12-21-2010, 09:58 AM   #17
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

My flange was in similar condition. Getting it apart (without damaging the rear flange) might not be easy. Spray it with PB blaster at least a few times, leading up to when you want to attempt it. Be ready with an air grinder (and cut-off wheel) in case you have to cut some of them.

...
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

I was thinking the rear flange was going to require some TLC, somebody posted a link to an inexpensive air cutoff tool from Harbor Freight that was about $13, I think I will pick up that and a grinder.....

The studs and nuts are definately trash at the rear flange and front clamp and probably the front flange so I will likely be replacing these, is this hardware just regular exhaust hardware from any parts store?

I found these at autozone but it says GM 1962 - 1996, mine is a 98:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=426026_0_0_

As for the gaskets, is the front flange the same as the rear flange:

Another Autozone find:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par.../N-jadgdZ9l38y

Did you spot the hole?

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Old 12-21-2010, 01:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
you may just want to get a new down/flex pipe. It will be way easier and a guaranteed fix.
Depending on your state. Some states do not accept the "cheap" cats. In California, even if you buy an expensive California tested cat you still need to write the justification for the state to approve you installing it on your vehicle. I would avoid messing with the cat if you are in one of those states.

-Robert

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Old 12-22-2010, 02:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: Time to replace front pipe/flex pipe, I have some questions

I am currently in Ontario, Canada and my Saturn is a Michigan car. We have e-testing here but they don't care what type of cat is on the car, as long as all of the actual readings from the test are less than the max allowable numbers and parameters that are predetermined for the specific car then you pass!!

I have even taken a car in with a check engine light on that still passed its e-test and there was no issue.

Basically this whole emissions testing is a giant money grab by the government, I can't say that this surprises me though....

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