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Old 11-22-2010, 01:18 AM   #1
kingkevin8
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Default Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

On a previous post I thought my purge solenoid was bad... replaced it, yet I still have a high idle after the car comes to normal operating temp. It stays constant around 1500 rpms. If I shut the car off, and restart it right away the car (95 SC2) will go back to normal rpm range 850. Only until I drive the car for another 10 mins. the car will high idle again. I've replaced the ects and iats. Could it be I just bought a dud etcs? Maybe a bad ecm? I need this car fixed.

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Old 11-22-2010, 01:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Throttle Position Sensor. Classic sign of it going to crap.

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Old 11-22-2010, 01:52 AM   #3
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Also replaced that with a junkyard tps. Should I just try again?

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Old 11-22-2010, 08:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Get a TPS off of any 91-97 DOHC. Check it with an ohmmeter before installing it so you know it is good. Be sure that it is actually engaged with the throttle shaft. With the key in the ON position but engine off check that the voltage between the black and dk. green wire changes smoothly as the throttle is opened and closed. Stick a straight pin into each wire so you can read the voltage.

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Old 11-22-2010, 11:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Thanks so much. I will do this. Even though my check engine light wasn't on, I tried to check codes, and sure enough I got code 22. I'll update later. Thanks again.

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Old 11-22-2010, 12:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

If you have a code, the SES light should be on. Does the SES light come on when you first turn the key to RUN?

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Old 11-22-2010, 02:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Well when I disconnect any sensor the light comes on, but it didn't come on for the tps, I just checked for codes, then it showed 22. Now for some weird reason my car is running perfectly fine (after I removed the tps clip, and reattached).

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Old 11-22-2010, 02:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Dirty connection. By any chance it is not full of dielectric grease is it? If the problem returns then buy a can of CRC Electrical Connection cleaner and clean out both the connector and socket.

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Old 11-22-2010, 03:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

No grease at all. Thanks for the advice, I'll probably just do that anyway, since I'll be on an 8 hour trip tomorrow.

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Old 11-22-2010, 06:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Just pack the cleaner and don't touch it if it is working. It could also be a broken wire but that is not likely.

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Old 11-24-2010, 01:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Okay, the high idle "stopped", but now when I start the car, when not warmed up, and i lightly touch the accelerator the rpms will drop, like a hesitation. Also the code 22 hasn't gone away, and I removed the pcm b fuse, and put it back on, still same, code 22. I cleaned the connection.

Also swapped, plugs, wires, coil pack and the ignition backing, pcv valve, O2 sensor, purge solenoid, tps, and the aic. Not a thing is working.

Earlier also, the car would intermittently misfire, only once every maybe 5-10 mins, and only one misfire as I was accelerating.

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1995 Saturn SL2- 232,000mi
1993 Saturn SL2- 302,000mi
1994 Saturn SL2- 139,000mi

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Old 11-24-2010, 01:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
If you have a code, the SES light should be on. Does the SES light come on when you first turn the key to RUN?
no the engine light does not come on when the car is on, but it shows the code when I check the codes.

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Old 11-24-2010, 01:24 AM   #13
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkevin8 View Post
no the engine light does not come on when the car is on, but it shows the code when I check the codes.
Not sure what you mean by "when the car is on", if that means when the engine is running or the key is in RUN. The question is, does the SES light come on when you FIRST turn the key to RUN, BEFORE starting the engine?

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Old 11-24-2010, 01:34 AM   #14
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Yes the light comes on when I put the key in the ON position (w/the car off). But the car doesn't throw any codes while the car runs.

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1995 Saturn SL2- 232,000mi
1993 Saturn SL2- 302,000mi
1994 Saturn SL2- 139,000mi

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Old 11-24-2010, 07:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

The ses light is supposed to come on when the key is turned to ON but not start.

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Old 11-24-2010, 11:02 AM   #16
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Wrench Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

OK, admittedly this is a long shot, but if you replaced the TPS you might try the following-
  • Press the gas pedal all the way to the floor and hold it there.
  • Turn on the ignition key to the run position but do not start the engine.
  • Count to five.
  • Release the gas pedal completely.
  • Count to five.
  • Turn off the ignition.
  • Now start the engine and let it idle down.

I had a high idle issue on mine that appeared out of nowhere after I had the battery disconnected for a couple of hours. Obviously disconnecting the battery was not causing a vacuum leak or any of the other common issues that result in high idle. I had fairly recently replaced the TPS and so I tried tapping on it, etc. etc. No fix.

Doing the procedure above apparently allowed the PCM to learn what full throttle and idle were according to the new TPS. The high idle issue was immediately resolved and has remained resolved since. It idled smoother afterward too.

This only occurred to me because I have to do that with my other car if I leave the battery disconnected for a long period of time. Says so right in the service books. However if this is mentioned in the Saturn FSMs, I have not found it (or at least I don't remember seeing it), but it absolutely worked for my car.

It will take you 30 seconds to try and costs nothing. Couldn't hurt.

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Old 11-24-2010, 12:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Okay, what I did was jump the terminals 3 times to reset the codes, and the code went away and hasn't come back. Now to figure out the hesitation at start up. Would it be possible that the owner before me messed with the idle adjustment screw? Because when I start it, the car idles around 2000, takes a few seconds to come down, then idles at 1100, then after warm up goes down to 850-900.

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Old 11-24-2010, 02:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

It is easy to cheek. From a completely warmed up engine, something like right at he end of a good 10 mile run out on the highway, turn off the engine and remove the air tube. Restart engine and let it idle for a minute or so. Now slowly block the IAC port in the bottom of the throttle body throat with your finger. When completely blocked you should be 450->550 RPM. Have your helper check RPM and then slowly remove finger. If you saw RPM in the specified range you are done. If not remove the throttle body and clean thoroughly the IAC and throttle plate seating areas. Repeat test. If RPM is still incorrect carefully adjust the mechanical stop to get 450-500 RPM. Be very careful that the engine is fully warmed up before performing this test. Best to have the fan cycle on and off at least twice if no highway run.

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Old 11-25-2010, 12:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Thank you, I'll have to try that, and post my results. I'll do that tomorrow. Until then, hopefully this is the last question. When you need to replace the valve cover gasket, is it possible that the engine will run like it has a vacuum leak? I figure that it would because there is obvious vacuum there, since oil can leak out, and air has much easier of a time to escape through a broken seal.

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1993 Saturn SL2- 302,000mi
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: Out of ideas... possibly ecm?

Nope, the inside of the engine including the top of the head is not connected to the intake except through the PCV valve which does not really care where it is stuck in the CAM cover or not. That little hose over to the air intake tube lets in outside air.

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