SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2010, 04:07 PM   #1
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Hey all

Had an old thread but have more info on the problem. This is the only code I have.

First, the car starts and runs fine for the most part, does have a skip but nothing game breaking.

Driving for 10-15 minutes and it starts to misfire. The condition comes and goes and gets progressively worse until it's almost constant.

Have changed:

plugs
wires
both coils
ICM
CTS
EGR

When it goes into misfire, you can pull Plug 1 and there's no spark. Once it stops misfiring, there's spark and the car runs normally. Have tried switching plugs and wires, same result, always Cyl 1. It's definitely an ignition problem but I don't know what else to change.

Anyone have any input on what it could be?

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-22-2010, 04:16 PM   #2
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,354
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Where did you get the replacement ICM?

I suspect you have checked for a leaking intake gasket in the vicinity of #1. If not check for a vacuum leak.

If you are not using NGK BKR4ESA-11 plugs, install a a set.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 05:04 PM   #3
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

ICM came from advance auto, I believe it's a BWD part.


I don't think it's vacuum or a gasket, looks to be strictly intermittent no spark. have even ruled out the spark plug.

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 07:16 PM   #4
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,354
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

What brand of spark plugs? Any brand type except NGK BKR4ESA-11 can cause these kinds of problems and plugs are cheaper than ICMs.

If the plugs are the correct number and brand then I would go find a real OEM ICM at the junk yard. Any 96-02 will fit and function. Newer is better and it will come with 2 new coils change all of it. The aftermarket components sometimes have issues.

The ICM is directly driven by the PCM. So, if it is not the plugs or ICM then it is the interconnecting wiring or the PCM. You do not want to get into a PCM replacement.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 11:10 PM   #5
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 has a spectacular aura aboutRobertGary1 has a spectacular aura aboutRobertGary1 has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,854
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Rockauto's website can be useful in this type of case. If you look up a part you can usually then look up its applicability. That will tell you what years share the same part.

-Robert


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
What brand of spark plugs? Any brand type except NGK BKR4ESA-11 can cause these kinds of problems and plugs are cheaper than ICMs.

If the plugs are the correct number and brand then I would go find a real OEM ICM at the junk yard. Any 96-02 will fit and function. Newer is better and it will come with 2 new coils change all of it. The aftermarket components sometimes have issues.

The ICM is directly driven by the PCM. So, if it is not the plugs or ICM then it is the interconnecting wiring or the PCM. You do not want to get into a PCM replacement.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 10:11 AM   #6
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The ICM is directly driven by the PCM. So, if it is not the plugs or ICM then it is the interconnecting wiring or the PCM. You do not want to get into a PCM replacement.
Thanks for the input all. It's looking like ICM or PCM. Considering the ICM was changed and still getting the exact same problem, I'm leaning towards PCM. I'm assuming there's a method of diagnosing this?

Any particular reason why I a PCM change is daunting? Is it just difficult to access?

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 10:30 AM   #7
mattelderca
Senior Member
mattelderca will become famous soon enough
 
mattelderca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Posts: 1,239
 

1998 SC1
1996 SL
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

See, the coil for cylinder 1 is the same as cylinder 4, they fire at the same time one is lost on the exhaust stroke. I find it hard to see how you would loose spark on just number 1. New ICM's have been an issue and a used OEM is the fix. The new aftermarket ICM's apparently do not play nice with the Saturn PCM. PCM failures are rare, very rare.
Do your self a favour before going any further and check for an intake manifold gasket leak at the number 1 cylinder! It is very common on the 99 and up SOHC.
When the miss is happening, spray carb cleaner or even water, on the intake to head joint just behind the power steering pump. If there is a change in idle you have found your problem. Check my photo gallery here for what happens to the intake gasket. Many people have had this and also have pictures there.

...
2000 SL1 freebie, my sons DD
1998 SC1 still running, FOR SALE cheap!
1996 SL, GONE but not forgotten
2005 Generic Silver Minivan (Kia Sedona)
2009 Nissan Sentra 2.0S

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mattelderca's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mattelderca reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mattelderca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 10:40 AM   #8
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The ICM is directly driven by the PCM. So, if it is not the plugs or ICM then it is the interconnecting wiring or the PCM. You do not want to get into a PCM replacement.
Thanks for the input all. It's looking like ICM or PCM. Considering the ICM was changed and still getting the exact same problem, I'm leaning towards PCM. I'm assuming there's a method of diagnosing this?

Any particular reason why I a PCM change is daunting? Is it just difficult to access?

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 10:45 AM   #9
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,354
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

You have an aftermarket ICM, they are crap. Go get a real one from a junk yard. The PCM will require a re-flash to your car and that is going to cost. Add to that the cost of the PCM. Are you absolutely sure that your PCM is the one that belongs in the car now?

If not the ICM I would be more inclined to suspect the wiring between the PCM and ICM.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 10:49 AM   #10
ev_dave13
Member
ev_dave13 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Guyton, GA
Posts: 157

1996 SW1
2002 SC1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

If you should decide you need a computer, I have one from a '99 SL1 5 speed, AC, PS, no cruise, no power windows or locks, that I'll sell dirt cheap. Wiring harness, too. It's from a parts car. It won't work for you if you have an automatic tranny, though. PM me for details.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to ev_dave13's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help ev_dave13 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
ev_dave13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 10:49 AM   #11
topcat
Member
topcat will become famous soon enough
 
topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boston,ma
Posts: 395

1997 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Have you tried swapping the 4-1 coil with the 2-3 coil? Seems easy enough and if the miss moves to cyl 3 then you know it's the coil failing "HOT". Best of luck.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to topcat's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help topcat reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:35 PM   #12
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Need to raise this from the dead. I haven't used the car much until putting my camaro away in December so now getting some more seat time. To update further work done, the intake gasket and ECM have now both been replaced and still getting a problem. Just had a code read and it's P0300.

Inconsistent, can go days without reoccurence, then it acts up out of the blue. I can't reproduce it at will. For example, this just started happening again tonight after a 1 hr ride, but it's the first time in at least a few hundred miles.

So parts replaced:

plugs (autolite)
wires
both coils (aftermarket and GM)
ICM (have tried aftermarket and GM)
ECTS
CPS
ECM
EGR
intake gasket

I'm getting ready to junk the car at this point, but it runs perfectly otherwise which is frustrating. And considering I had a used trans put in last april on top of all of this, it hurts a bit to just scrap it.

Thoughts? Diagnostic advice? Can I pick up a scanner that will log and provide real-time info?

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 07:39 PM   #13
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Need to raise this from the dead. I haven't used the car much until putting my camaro away in December so now getting some more seat time. To update further work done, the intake gasket and ECM have now both been replaced and still getting a problem. Just had a code read and it's P0300.

Inconsistent, can go days without reoccurence, then it acts up out of the blue. I can't reproduce it at will. For example, this just started happening again tonight after a 1 hr ride, but it's the first time in at least a few hundred miles. I've made the same trip at least 10 times since then without issue.

So parts replaced:

plugs (autolite)
wires
both coils (aftermarket and GM)
ICM (have tried aftermarket and GM)
ECTS
CPS
ECM
EGR
intake gasket

I'm getting ready to junk the car at this point, but it runs perfectly otherwise which is frustrating. And considering I had a used trans put in last april on top of all of this, it hurts a bit to just scrap it.

Thoughts? Diagnostic advice? Can I pick up a scanner that will log and provide real-time info?

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 09:10 PM   #14
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,354
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

I asked this before and never had a response. Is the PCM original to that car or is it a replacement? Is the ICM aftermarket or a genuine OEM part?

The P0300 is a sure sign of needing a crank relearn if the PCM is not the original and a aftermarket ICM may also cause random fits of random misfires. There is very little mechanical that can cause a P0300, it is usually electrical.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 09:33 PM   #15
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
I asked this before and never had a response. Is the PCM original to that car or is it a replacement? Is the ICM aftermarket or a genuine OEM part?

The P0300 is a sure sign of needing a crank relearn if the PCM is not the original and a aftermarket ICM may also cause random fits of random misfires. There is very little mechanical that can cause a P0300, it is usually electrical.
My apologies, I'd thought I had answered that already.

To my knowledge the original PCM that was replaced was original yes. The replacement was a boneyard GM component from another 99 SL1 and I had a shop program it. Didn't resolve the issue though.

I've tried 3 ICM's; the original GM ICM, a boneyard GM, and aftermarket BWD part and have had the same result with all 3.

The only part of the system that hasn't been addressed at this point is the harness.

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 10:20 PM   #16
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,354
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Were you present when the shop replaced the PCM? Did they perform a crank relearn?

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=144503 Post #4 is what should have been done.

Last edited by OldNuc; 01-19-2011 at 10:25 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 10:45 PM   #17
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Nope I wasn't. If this isn't performed wouldn't you have an SES set?

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 08:35 AM   #18
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,354
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

No, There is no SES for a crankshaft relearn not performed. If you do not see the flashing SES when first starting the car it will clear eventually and the crank timing will be off. The only real clue is a replaced PCM and a P300. Basically, if you have no ECTS or EGR codes, have replaced the wires and plugs and the firing order is correct crank learn is your problem. You must use NGK BKR4ESA-11 plugs.

All that has to be done is reset the learn bit with a Tech - 2 scanner and then perform the learn procedure as explained in the post in that other thread.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 01:19 AM   #19
GPSkinzhut
Junior Member
GPSkinzhut is on a distinguished road
 
GPSkinzhut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 12

1999 SL1
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
No, There is no SES for a crankshaft relearn not performed. If you do not see the flashing SES when first starting the car it will clear eventually and the crank timing will be off. The only real clue is a replaced PCM and a P300. Basically, if you have no ECTS or EGR codes, have replaced the wires and plugs and the firing order is correct crank learn is your problem. You must use NGK BKR4ESA-11 plugs.

All that has to be done is reset the learn bit with a Tech - 2 scanner and then perform the learn procedure as explained in the post in that other thread.
Ok. I'll pick up some of those NGK's this weekend and see about having the re-learn done next week and will post back results.

...
---------------------
99 Saturn SL1
87 Camaro IROC-Z - 305 / 5-speed

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GPSkinzhut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GPSkinzhut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GPSkinzhut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 08:17 AM   #20
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,354
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: P0301 - Cyl 1 misfire - gets progressively worse

Keep in mind that both the plugs and wires are critical to proper ignition. Much more than most of the other cars you have dealt with. If the wires are a couple of years old then replace them and the NGK plugs are also critical. These 2 items together may solve your problem.

If you have to get a crank relearn the shop that did the original programming should be able to clear the learn bit and re do the crank learn. You will need a clean new set of plugs and wires when you do it though. Change the plugs/wires and see if your code clears, if it does you are done and if not do the relearn. Plugs and wires that are a month or so old are still fine for a relearn.

To clear your code just remove the PCM B fuse from the UHJB (fuse box) and after a brief delay then replace it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
01 SL2 Code P0301 guzzel S-Series General 8 08-04-2009 06:33 PM
Misfire at idle - P0301 PSYKO_Inc S-Series Tech 2 02-14-2009 03:43 PM
OBD Code: P0301 Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected hc803 S-Series Tech 16 01-22-2007 11:25 AM
My saturn hates me (Misfire -P0301-) plainzwalker S-Series Tech 14 05-13-2005 02:32 PM
P0301 cylander1 misfire machine_man S-Series Tech 4 10-15-2004 09:48 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.