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Old 09-20-2010, 10:15 PM   #1
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Dazed Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

After changing the oil and oil filter, my once quiet 2004 VUE's 4-cylinder Ecotec engine now has a very noticeable rattling sound, similar to a diesel engine or (gasp) a Saturn S-Series engine with a timing chain that is about to fail. The noise is heard when the engine is idling, and probably at most RPMs. It is definitely there when the engine is cold. I don't know if it is there when the engine is at normal operating temperatures because I am hesitant to drive it. I am pretty sure that the noise is coming from the engine as it sounds louder when idling with the hood raised. The oil level is fine. I unscrewed the oil filter canister cover and the oil filter was saturated with oil and not crushed or anything. The only thing unusual with this last oil change is when I rotated the wheels, the rear wheels were "rusted' in place and the only way I could loosen them was to tap the tires from underneath the vehicle with a rubber mallet. (Afterward I put a thick coat of anti-seize compound on the parts of the wheels that touch the brake rotors, brake drum housing, hub, etc.)

Has anybody experienced this before? If so, what was the cause and what was the solution?

Background: this is a 2004 VUE with the 4-cylinder Ecotec engine and a 5-speed manual transmission. The odometer is at 75,000 miles (about 120,700 km). Since buying the vehicle pre-owned already with 50,000 miles (about 80,500 km) on the odometer, I have been changing the oil every 5,000 miles (about 8,000 km) using Mobil-1 0W30 synthetic oil and Saturn OEM oil filters. Until this last oil change the engine has been quiet and very smooth. It hasn't burned any oil as far as I can tell. The exhaust system is original. It does not rattle when I grab the tailpipe and shake it around. The transmission is fine and is filled with Mobil-1 synthetic ATF. The wheels are original aluminum alloys.

Thanks in advance!

...
As of Oct 2014
∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
∙ 2004 VUE, 97K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SC2, 140K
∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 09-21-2010, 06:40 AM   #2
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Post Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

For whatever it is worth, I did search the VUE forums here for similar issues, causes, and solutions but mostly found threads where it was one of the V6 engines.

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∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
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∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 09-21-2010, 07:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Could it be the belt tensioner?

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Old 09-21-2010, 08:25 AM   #4
David 93 SL2m
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Post Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Hmmm. It could be the belt tensioner, or one of the components that get turned by the belt. This evening I'll temporarily remove the serpentine belt, run the engine for less than 1 minute, listen for the noises, replace the serpentine belt, and report back here.

I forgot to mention none of the idiot lights are coming on, which is a good thing.

I briefly searched the SaturnFans ION forums where the Ecotec engines are also used. It seems the Ecotec engines can be a bit noisy; are not uncommon; they get louder with age; and sometimes the noises are due to lifters, injectors, faulty oil filters, for 5-speed manual transmissions a heat shield under the exhaust manifold, and maybe oil issues.

...
As of Oct 2014
∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
∙ 2004 VUE, 97K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SC2, 140K
∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 09-21-2010, 08:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Or maybe a cracked exhaust manifold. As the manifold warms up, it expands slighty and closes the crack.

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Old 09-22-2010, 07:32 AM   #6
David 93 SL2m
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Roll Eyes Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Last night I didn't get a chance to do anything. Tonight I'll try again. I'm suspecting a faulty Saturn OEM oil filter is keeping the oil from flowing since before changing the oil things were fine, now there is the engine noise, and that was the only "part" that was replaced. Stay tuned...

...
As of Oct 2014
∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
∙ 2004 VUE, 97K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SC2, 140K
∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 09-22-2010, 09:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

My Ion has some ticking noise but always had that, I switched to Pennzoil plat and the engine is much quieter. I always used the GM filter for the oil.

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Old 09-22-2010, 10:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

sure sounds like not enough oil. maybe oil filter like you said

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Old 09-22-2010, 03:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by David 93 SL2m View Post
After changing the oil and oil filter, my once quiet 2004 VUE's 4-cylinder Ecotec engine now has a very noticeable rattling sound, similar to a diesel engine or (gasp) a Saturn S-Series engine with a timing chain that is about to fail. The noise is heard when the engine is idling, and probably at most RPMs. It is definitely there when the engine is cold. I don't know if it is there when the engine is at normal operating temperatures because I am hesitant to drive it. I am pretty sure that the noise is coming from the engine as it sounds louder when idling with the hood raised. The oil level is fine. I unscrewed the oil filter canister cover and the oil filter was saturated with oil and not crushed or anything. The only thing unusual with this last oil change is when I rotated the wheels, the rear wheels were "rusted' in place and the only way I could loosen them was to tap the tires from underneath the vehicle with a rubber mallet. (Afterward I put a thick coat of anti-seize compound on the parts of the wheels that touch the brake rotors, brake drum housing, hub, etc.)

Has anybody experienced this before? If so, what was the cause and what was the solution?

Background: this is a 2004 VUE with the 4-cylinder Ecotec engine and a 5-speed manual transmission. The odometer is at 75,000 miles (about 120,700 km). Since buying the vehicle pre-owned already with 50,000 miles (about 80,500 km) on the odometer, I have been changing the oil every 5,000 miles (about 8,000 km) using Mobil-1 0W30 synthetic oil and Saturn OEM oil filters. Until this last oil change the engine has been quiet and very smooth. It hasn't burned any oil as far as I can tell. The exhaust system is original. It does not rattle when I grab the tailpipe and shake it around. The transmission is fine and is filled with Mobil-1 synthetic ATF. The wheels are original aluminum alloys.

Thanks in advance!


Is 0W30 viscosity oil the one recommended in your owner's manual? Why are you using this oil viscosity? Do you live in an extremely cold area (year-round)?

Incorrect viscosity oil can cause engine noise.

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Old 09-22-2010, 06:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

I would put in pennzoil platinum 5w30. Which is also GM Dexos Approved.

http://www.pennzoil.com/#/motor-oil/pennzoil-platinum

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Old 09-22-2010, 08:15 PM   #11
David 93 SL2m
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Happy Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Thanks for all the replies that are rolling in!

This evening I removed the new Saturn OEM oil filter. I saw nothing odd in the filter canister. The filter looked fine and the little gasket at the bottom end was still there. It was firmly connected to the canister cap. I put the filter in a new 16 oz. plastic cup, covered it with Saran wrap and a rubber band, and will save it for reuse as it only has maybe 25 miles (about 40 km) of use.

I also looked at the used Saturn OEM filter. It looked fine (just dirty) and it also still had the little gasket.

Then I installed a new WIX 57082 oil filter. It snapped into the canister cap fine. The oil level was okay; down a tiny bit since the filter I removed was saturated with oil.

Next I did a 20 minute test drive. Before and after the idling engine still sounded like a diesel engine. At speed it was hard to tell that the noise is still there since there are so many other noises, but I am pretty sure it is happening at all RPMs.

Tomorrow I'm staying home from work so I can look at the other things mentioned in this thread such as the serpentine belt (and the things it spins), the exhaust manifold, and so on. I do have Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Ultra in the garage and I might try those...

...
As of Oct 2014
∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
∙ 2004 VUE, 97K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SC2, 140K
∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 09-22-2010, 08:25 PM   #12
David 93 SL2m
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Happy Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Oh, I just remembered something! A few months ago I had an idiot light come on and the code indicated the upper oxygen sensor was failing. I reset the code and after a few weeks the idiot light came back on. After doing this another two times, I replaced the upper oxygen sensor on the back of the engine at the exhaust manifold under the heat shield (and reset the code). No more idiot light.

I will check the heat shield above the exhaust manifold, the 3 bolts that hold it in place, and the new oxygen sensor. It could be that I disrupted something while changing the oxygen sensor. For whatever it is worth I loosened the old O2 sensor and tightened the new O2 sensor with a flare-nut wrench. It wasn't too hard to do, just a bit of a stretch from above due to its location.

I just think it is odd this diesel-like engine noise came out of the blue and coincided with the oil change.

...
As of Oct 2014
∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
∙ 2004 VUE, 97K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SC2, 140K
∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 09-23-2010, 01:29 PM   #13
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Cool Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

The noise is gone!!! Maybe the lifters or something to do with the timing chain was sticking and adding a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil freed it up.

After removing the heat shield above the exhaust manifold, running the engine, and trying to feel for exhaust escaping through a bad gasket seal between the engine and the exhaust manifold (none felt), I turned the engine off to begin looking in the serpentine belt area. But first I checked the oil level. The oil level still fine was down a tiny bit - it covered the first 3 of 4 indentations on the dip stick between the "add oil" mark and the "full" mark. So I added 8 fl. oz. (about 0.25 liters) of Marvel Mystery Oil to the Mobil-1 oil. Why not?

After adding a little MMO to the oil I ran the engine; the noise was still there. I let it idle for a few minutes; the noise was still there. I revved the engine up to 4,000 RPMs; the noise was still there. I figured the next step was replacing the Mobil-1 with Pennzoil Ultra or Pennzoil Platinum. My wife and I got in the VUE to go out for lunch - and to fully warm up the engine so I could change the oil when we returned home.

We began driving and maybe 10 seconds later the diesel-like noise stopped completely! it was like a switch had been flipped or something. The noise has not since returned. Tomorrow I'll drive the VUE to work and back - 75 miles (about 120 km) total - and post back here again with the results. And in the future if the noise ever returns while this thread is not closed, I'll post here.

At the next oil change I will switch over to Pennzoil Ultra 5W30...

...
As of Oct 2014
∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
∙ 2004 VUE, 97K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SC2, 140K
∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 09-25-2010, 08:01 AM   #14
David 93 SL2m
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Happy Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

The diesel-like noise with my 4-cylinder VUE engine is still gone. It is quiet and silky smooth again.

So in summary if anybody experiences a suddenly noisy engine like me, here are the suggestions I'd pass to them:
  • Check the oil level. If it is low then get it back to the full "max" point on the dipstick.
  • Check your records. If it is time for an oil change then do it.
  • If you are not using synthetic motor oil then this is a good time to switch. It costs more than regular oil but the benefits justify the cost. And with sales, rebates, coupons, discounts, special offers (buy 5 quarts get the oil filter free), etc. or a combination of these the price can be the same or even less. BobIsTheOilGuy is a good place to find these: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...oard=33&page=1
  • Consider adding a small amount of Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to the engine oil.
  • Check the exhaust manifold for leaks. Be careful because this gets real hot very fast!
  • Use a quality oil filter.
  • If the vehicle is 2003 or older then be aware the oil filter canister cap for the Ecotec engine changed starting with the 2004 model year. The newer cap (and newer oil filter) can be used on the 2003 or older Ecotec engines. Read more here: http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29898 and GM TSB #03-00-90-003 (attached).
  • See if anything driven by the serpentine belt is the source of the noise.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf GM-TSB-03-00-90-003.pdf (79.6 KB, 29 views)

...
As of Oct 2014
∙ 1993 SL2, 209K
∙ 1996 SC2,123K
∙ 2002 SL1, 91K
∙ 2004 VUE, 97K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SC2, 140K
∙ 1996 SC2, 157K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200, 20K
...

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Old 10-02-2010, 08:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by David 93 SL2m View Post
The diesel-like noise with my 4-cylinder VUE engine is still gone. It is quiet and silky smooth again.

So in summary if anybody experiences a suddenly noisy engine like me, here are the suggestions I'd pass to them:
  • Check the oil level. If it is low then get it back to the full "max" point on the dipstick.
  • Check your records. If it is time for an oil change then do it.
  • If you are not using synthetic motor oil then this is a good time to switch. It costs more than regular oil but the benefits justify the cost. And with sales, rebates, coupons, discounts, special offers (buy 5 quarts get the oil filter free), etc. or a combination of these the price can be the same or even less. BobIsTheOilGuy is a good place to find these: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...oard=33&page=1
  • Consider adding a small amount of Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to the engine oil.
  • Check the exhaust manifold for leaks. Be careful because this gets real hot very fast!
  • Use a quality oil filter.
  • If the vehicle is 2003 or older then be aware the oil filter canister cap for the Ecotec engine changed starting with the 2004 model year. The newer cap (and newer oil filter) can be used on the 2003 or older Ecotec engines. Read more here: http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29898 and GM TSB #03-00-90-003 (attached).
  • See if anything driven by the serpentine belt is the source of the noise.
Thank goodness the noise vanished ... I was looking for another service bulletin when I happened upon the attached. Mother GM reminds us an incorrectly built, or installed, oil filter can be bad news.

But, we DIY'ers learned that a long time ago - (most did but I still struggle at times.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Vue Oil Filter.pdf (41.9 KB, 32 views)

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Old 10-03-2010, 02:51 AM   #16
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: Changed 4-cylinder engine oil, now have ticking noise

Be careful with the marvel mistery oil a lab did a review on it and found the mystery to be lard in the solution I don't know if it was true or not but I tend to like seafoam.

Also it could have been sludge build up on the oil pickup tube screen when you do a oil change it kicks it up. More motors fail because of low oil pressure after oil changes because of it.

I have learned from saabs issue with it and if you have the ecotech motor it came from the saab motors back in the 90's

And no Im not here to bash on companies just to share insight of whats has been reported

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