SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2010, 02:42 PM   #1
sean407
New Member
sean407 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default 99 SL1 Idling High

Hey i have a 1999 SL1 with 153k miles on it
I really dont know much about cars thats why im comin to you guys for help!
Before i go spend $90 on a diagnosis I took it to a discount auto shop and used the machine to get the engine codes, i dont remember it exactly but it was like P0950 or something like that which said Idle Control Error - High RPM

and thats what it has been doing for the past week, idling between 1800 and 3500rpm. and when im driving it if i let off the gas and break it speeds up slowly
from what people have told me, it could be the TPS, ICV, or a vacuum leak? didnt want to replace the electronics just yet but i think it might be a vacuum leak, not because it makes a sucking or hissing noise when the engine is running, but after i turn the engine off, about 10 seconds later it makes a hissing noise like some pressure is being released
Any help would be appreciated! Thanks

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sean407's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sean407 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sean407 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 08-28-2010, 02:57 PM   #2
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,663
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

P507 or P509.


They are different. But either one could indicate a IAC, Idle Air Control valve failure. It can also be the TPS or a vacuum leak.

There are 2 quick tests that will help identify what is going on.

After getting the engine warmed up to normal temperature and with it sitting in neutral or park while experiencing the high idle do teh following: Switch the engine off and then immediately restart it without touching the throttle. If the idle is now normal that indicates a failed TPS.

To check the IAC do the following. Remove the air inlet tube from the throttle body. Now start the engine and look into the front of the throttle body. There is an oval port in the base of the TB right in front of the throttle plate. Put your finger over that port. The idle should drop to 500 RPM or so. If it does slowly remove your finger as the IAC is either stuck or a chunk of carbon is blocking it from closing properly.

IF neither of these tests indicate a sensor failure then it is a vacuum leak. Post back the results and we can go from there.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 04:14 PM   #3
sean407
New Member
sean407 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

yes P509
i will do both these tests right now! thank u for ur quick response!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sean407's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sean407 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sean407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 04:34 PM   #4
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,663
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

This should actually identify what is wrong.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 04:41 PM   #5
sean407
New Member
sean407 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

Ok I let the engine warm up and turned it off and restarted it, rpm was the same.
When i put my finger over the oval port in the TB the first time i did it the engine shut off, i did it a second time and the rpm dropped then i took my finger away and it revved back up
Also, is it bad that when i shut the engine off, about 10 seconds later there is a hissing noise that sounds like some pressure is being released? Sounds like its coming from near the alternator but i cant tell

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sean407's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sean407 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sean407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 06:19 PM   #6
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,850

1997 SL2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean407 View Post
Also, is it bad that when i shut the engine off, about 10 seconds later there is a hissing noise that sounds like some pressure is being released? Sounds like its coming from near the alternator but i cant tell
With the engine on next time, spray some brake cleaner around the cyl #1 area on the intake manifold. If the idle changes, then your intake manifold gasket is bad.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to adventureoflink's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help adventureoflink reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 07:40 PM   #7
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,663
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

If you blocked the port and the engine stalled out you do not have a vacuum leak. It would continue to run on the leaked air. The IAC is either dead, stuck, or jammed on crud.

I have no real good idea on what you are hearing but the power steering is over there and the water line runs along the back so I would think it is one or the other of those.

To get past the high idle the next logical step is to thoroughly clean the throttle body and flush out the IAC innards. The IAC can only be flushed out with CRC Electrical Connector cleaner. It is in a red and white can. It can be sprayed freely up into the IAC once it is out of the throttle body and it will clean it without destroying it. carb cleaner will destroy it though. The videos below will explain the TB cleaning process. The IAC cleaning is a matter of holding it pintle pointing down and squirting cleaner up into the interior until it runs clean and letting it dry. It is a ratcheting type of positioning so it is not supposed to move when handled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ5cAVjjnWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc5qCuQLmFE

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 10:19 PM   #8
sean407
New Member
sean407 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

adventureoflink - i will do this in the morning as i had to work late today and it is dark out now
OldNuc - thanks for the videos! i still need to acquire the right tools to take off the TB and get the IAC out of there but i really am hoping this will help! the car has 153k miles and the TB has never been thoroughly cleaned before, will post results ASAP and ty again for your help
Also, just thinking this might aid you in helping me, the engine revs wayy higher when i turn the A/C off, about 2500rpm with A/C on and 3500rpm with A/C off

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sean407's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sean407 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sean407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #9
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,663
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

As the TB has never been cleaned it is about 130,000 miles past due so I suspect that is your problem.

The leak check will not hurt anything but you have established that the intake is not sucking air or at least not a lot.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 06:19 PM   #10
sean407
New Member
sean407 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

Hey OldNuc
so today i took the TB off and took out the TPS and IAC for a good cleaning it looks a lot better, even wiped some lube on the butterfly valve so it wouldnt stick
Popped everything back in and its still idling high
but i might have the solution if what im thinking is correct
Is the IAC supposed to have a plastic sleeve that retracts around the spring??
Because mine doesnt have that OR its stuck down in there

and i dont have brake cleaner to spray onto cyl #1 to see if the gasket is bad, could i use something else?
actualy just noticed it doesnt have the black sleeve, but the shaft inside the spring is only half way up, is that the problem??

Last edited by sean407; 08-29-2010 at 06:24 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sean407's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sean407 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sean407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 06:53 PM   #11
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,663
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

There is no sleeve on the IAC pintle spring. You can use water in a squirt bottle also for leak checking. Grease is not good on the butterfly valve. But will not hurt.

Get a mustard/catchup squeeze bottle, fill with water and go looking for a vacuum leak. be sure that he o ring is on the IAC valve before you put it back.

Did you clean out the IAC port in the throttle body? This shows what should be done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc5qCuQLmFE

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 07:27 PM   #12
sean407
New Member
sean407 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

Yes i followed the video exactly spent about 20 minutes cleaning it
a mechanic friend of mine thinks i should replace the IAC from a u pull it yard, i think i might do this tmrw
cant check for vacuum leaks tonight its already dark out and i still gotta put this TB back in again lol
i dont know where the vacuum hoses are tho

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sean407's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sean407 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sean407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 07:38 PM   #13
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,663
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

Yes, get one of of any 95- 02 SOHC or 91-99 DOHC at the yard. They are the same.

I was thinking the same thing.

Vacuum hoses are all attached to the intake, PCV, Brake booster, Purge solenoid, and AIR Injection.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 01:06 PM   #14
sean407
New Member
sean407 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

It was the IAC! Replaced it today, drove it at 40mph for about 5 miles and i stopped and put it in neutral and it idles about 800rpm now! Yay cuz my gas mileage was suckin this past week lol
Thank you so much!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to sean407's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help sean407 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
sean407 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 01:19 PM   #15
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 has a spectacular aura aboutRobertGary1 has a spectacular aura aboutRobertGary1 has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,895
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

We'd been down this road before. Please don't use flamable stuff such as brake cleaner. Use soapy water. The soapy water makes a very temporary seal and will result in a change in RPM if there is a vac leak. Don't go spraying stuff that makes fire under your hood. The amount of water brought in is far less than the amount of water brought in on a dewy morning.

-Robert


Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
With the engine on next time, spray some brake cleaner around the cyl #1 area on the intake manifold. If the idle changes, then your intake manifold gasket is bad.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 12:27 AM   #16
adventureoflink
Master Member
adventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura aboutadventureoflink has a spectacular aura about
 
adventureoflink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 6,850

1997 SL2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertGary1 View Post
We'd been down this road before. Please don't use flamable stuff such as brake cleaner. Use soapy water. The soapy water makes a very temporary seal and will result in a change in RPM if there is a vac leak. Don't go spraying stuff that makes fire under your hood. The amount of water brought in is far less than the amount of water brought in on a dewy morning.

-Robert
In the past, we've always suggested brake cleaner.. Hmm.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to adventureoflink's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help adventureoflink reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
adventureoflink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 08:12 AM   #17
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,663
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 99 SL1 Idling High

The composition of carb cleaner, brake cleaner and other spray solvents/cleaners now meet the new ultra low VOC limits and I am not real sure that you can spray them through your Zippo flame and get them to burn. There are a host of things to be concerned about but brake cleaner on the intake is very low on the list.

Diesel staring fluid is an entirely different issue though.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
engine idling high mrkhardin S-Series Tech 6 08-25-2011 06:37 PM
High idling problem Misty2003L300 L-Series Tech 6 07-08-2006 03:48 PM
Idling high? PitchBlackSC2 S-Series Tech 7 09-21-2005 07:39 PM
Idling High while in P or N glaukus S-Series General 7 03-14-2005 11:06 PM
High idling temperature drizzlemiao S-Series General 5 01-18-2005 10:22 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.