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Old 08-01-2010, 09:43 PM   #1
SaturnSL2Guy
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Default Eibach springs

So I've been posting quite a bit lately because I finally have some time and money to work on my car. I've been researching for springs and decided on the Eibachs. However, can I run these springs with the stock struts? I know that the combo seems to be these springs and KYB GR-2's, but I would hate to dump perfectly good struts with under 70k on them if I don't have to. I read on one post that It was a bad idea, but no one seemed to say otherwise. If anyone thinks its a bad idea, I'll get the KYB's, but I'd rather not if I don't need too. Thanks guys!

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Old 08-01-2010, 10:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Eibach springs

Sure you can do it, but if you have almost 70k on the struts, they're more worn out than not, and the lowering springs will help finish them off in short order.

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Old 08-01-2010, 11:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Eibach springs

Thanks for the reply. The more I'm thinking about it, the more I figure I might as well do it right the first time than go back two or three times to fix things. The GR-2s seem like the way to go, if I'm going to pull everything out anyway, I might as well replace it. Thanks!

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Old 08-02-2010, 10:29 AM   #4
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Default Re: Eibach springs

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Originally Posted by SaturnSL2Guy View Post
Thanks for the reply. The more I'm thinking about it, the more I figure I might as well do it right the first time than go back two or three times to fix things. The GR-2s seem like the way to go, if I'm going to pull everything out anyway, I might as well replace it. Thanks!
You are 100% right in that statement.

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Old 08-02-2010, 03:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Eibach springs

my struts had 150k on them when i replaced them with kyb's and when i was playing with the old ones, the felt like pure crap. The combination i have is working out awesome.

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Eibach springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnSL2Guy View Post
So I've been posting quite a bit lately because I finally have some time and money to work on my car. I've been researching for springs and decided on the Eibachs. However, can I run these springs with the stock struts? I know that the combo seems to be these springs and KYB GR-2's, but I would hate to dump perfectly good struts with under 70k on them if I don't have to. I read on one post that It was a bad idea, but no one seemed to say otherwise. If anyone thinks its a bad idea, I'll get the KYB's, but I'd rather not if I don't need too. Thanks guys!
it's a fine idea as long as they're brand-spanking-new. 70k miles on a set of struts is right about time to change them. buy new stock or buy new kyb struts. either way, you'll be fine...


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Old 08-02-2010, 09:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Eibach springs

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like Im getting some KYB's!

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Old 08-03-2010, 04:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Eibach springs

eww eibachs. maybe try marshmallows instead, they're cheaper.

...
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Eibach springs

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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
eww eibachs. maybe try marshmallows instead, they're cheaper.
this coming from a guy that couldnt perform a manual swap and got rid of his car because of that.


there is nothing wrong with Eibachs. they are a great balance of looks, comfort and handling for DD status.

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Old 08-03-2010, 04:45 PM   #10
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Default Re: Eibach springs

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Originally Posted by Redhotftw! View Post
this coming from a guy that couldnt perform a manual swap and got rid of his car because of that.


there is nothing wrong with Eibachs. they are a great balance of looks, comfort and handling for DD status.
hey I still have it, and drive it as a back up.

and I've rode in a saturn with eibach's they're way too soft. the B&G's are almost stiff enough for the car.

...
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:28 AM   #11
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Default Re: Eibach springs

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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I've rode in a saturn with eibach's they're way too soft. the B&G's are almost stiff enough for the car.
They're not to soft for daily drivers who have to drive on crappy roads everyday to and from work.

Its a perfect balance in my opinion if all your looking for is a small upgrade from stock

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Old 08-04-2010, 08:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Eibach springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
hey I still have it, and drive it as a back up.

and I've rode in a saturn with eibach's they're way too soft. the B&G's are almost stiff enough for the car.
i got sprints and the feel perfect, and im sure eibach's feel even better.

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Old 08-04-2010, 09:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Eibach springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnSL2Guy View Post
So I've been posting quite a bit lately because I finally have some time and money to work on my car. I've been researching for springs and decided on the Eibachs. However, can I run these springs with the stock struts? I know that the combo seems to be these springs and KYB GR-2's, but I would hate to dump perfectly good struts with under 70k on them if I don't have to. I read on one post that It was a bad idea, but no one seemed to say otherwise. If anyone thinks its a bad idea, I'll get the KYB's, but I'd rather not if I don't need too. Thanks guys!
I installed Eibach Pro-Kit springs with KYB GR-2 struts on my 2002 SC2 about a month after I bought it. They are firmer than OE but not as harsh over bumps as the H&R Sport springs that I got later. None of my passengers complained about the Eibachs when I drove on the moon scape roads in Detroit. Occasionally someone would make a face or brace themselves with the H&R springs. H&R is better for Solo events since they are stiffer. Eibach is better for street usage but are fine for Solo and track days too.

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Old 08-05-2010, 11:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: Eibach springs

Eibachs are great for a "the way the car should have come from the factory" ride. That is what they shoot for, making the car better, without costing too much comfort. for most applications I'd choose Eibach anyday, while arguably better choices may exist for a given car, when you buy Eibach you are buying a known entity.

Sprints are Ok. They make a good daily spring. The rears are a bit too soft for serious work though.

H&Rs Sports are great, but they are a bit much for many people. Really getting close to a track toy spring.

H&R Races are awesome, if you are racing and enjoy replacing struts.

But nothing will touch coilovers in regards to both handling and harshness. I'm running 8K springs. I DD mine 100miles a day right now. I must admit they wear on me, but my body's complaints are ignored my the part of my brain that loves to drive a crisp car.

Quote:
this coming from a guy that couldnt perform a manual swap and got rid of his car because of that.
I'd probably get rid of a car rather than do a manual swap. I just have too many things in the fire to mess with such a job. I tell people regularly to sell their SX1s and buy a DOHC car if they much mod a Saturn. While swaps aren't difficult, time is money. By the time you buy the parts and perform the swap you probably only save a bit of money and are out a fair amount of time.

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Old 08-12-2010, 09:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Eibach springs

I have the EIbach/KYB on SL1. My buddy has a H&R/KYB setup on his SL2. The H&R have a great stiffness and handling ability, but they tend to rattle teeth when it comes even small lips in the road. Where as the eibach are less harsh they don't handle as well. We can both take looping on ramps on to the I-system here at 50mph with no problem my car tires will squeek just a bit.

So i would say DD, with some autox- Eibachs
A DD with a lot of autox- H&R
Don't know how the sprint or B&G's are.

...
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: Eibach springs

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Originally Posted by Keeter View Post
I have the EIbach/KYB on SL1. My buddy has a H&R/KYB setup on his SL2. The H&R have a great stiffness and handling ability, but they tend to rattle teeth when it comes even small lips in the road. Where as the eibach are less harsh they don't handle as well. We can both take looping on ramps on to the I-system here at 50mph with no problem my car tires will squeek just a bit.

So i would say DD, with some autox- Eibachs
A DD with a lot of autox- H&R
Don't know how the sprint or B&G's are.
Which H&R? There are 2 pretty different springs from them - sport & race.

...
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Eibach springs

I have the H&R Sports and ST Struts, I love it. The ride is harsher, but it didn't really bother me. It's just a different driving style on roads. The Eibachs were just too soft for what I wanted. I drove the Saturn as my DD for a fair amount of time with the new springs, and never once regretted having such a stiff spring.

As for not doing a DOHC sway, I have a 97 Dodge 2500 pickup, with the long bed, and am thinking about trading it for the same truck, with a short bed. Unfortunately it was hard to find the options I wanted with no specifics for the bed size, so I doubt I will get lucky, but it is still the best option. I will probably end out chopping the frame, and getting a bed from a JY from a shortbox. Toyotas do this all the time, to bob the back end for better departure angles, but it's not common practice on a truck like mine...

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Old 08-12-2010, 09:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: Eibach springs

The b&g's are rather stiff. They feel stiffer than my coil overs on my cavalier and my spring rate on those are both in the 300 lb range (which is pretty soft but I make up for it with stiff damping). Bumps make your back hurt, of course the homecomming editon seats are very stiff. I can't really compare how the bumps feel to my cav, because the seats on the cav are like a damn boucey house, you hit your head on the roof from the seat recoil after going over bumps. And the comparison isn't that fair either since the cavy has solid upper mounts and its about 200 pounds heavier (ie the same spring rate would make for a softer feeling ride on the heavier car).

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Old 08-12-2010, 10:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Eibach springs

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As for not doing a DOHC sway, I have a 97 Dodge 2500 pickup, with the long bed, and am thinking about trading it for the same truck, with a short bed. Unfortunately it was hard to find the options I wanted with no specifics for the bed size, so I doubt I will get lucky, but it is still the best option. I will probably end out chopping the frame, and getting a bed from a JY from a shortbox. Toyotas do this all the time, to bob the back end for better departure angles, but it's not common practice on a truck like mine...
What the heck does your ramble about a Dodge pickup & Toyotas have to do with a DOHC swaybar? *scratches head*

Quote:
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of course the homecomming editon seats are very stiff.
You mean S-Series seats? Cuz homecoming seats are the same thing with a different skin...

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Old 08-13-2010, 01:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: Eibach springs

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The b&g's are rather stiff. They feel stiffer than my coil overs on my cavalier and my spring rate on those are both in the 300 lb range (which is pretty soft but I make up for it with stiff damping). Bumps make your back hurt, of course the homecomming editon seats are very stiff. I can't really compare how the bumps feel to my cav, because the seats on the cav are like a damn boucey house, you hit your head on the roof from the seat recoil after going over bumps. And the comparison isn't that fair either since the cavy has solid upper mounts and its about 200 pounds heavier (ie the same spring rate would make for a softer feeling ride on the heavier car).
I think there are a lot of factors that you are not understanding in regards to spring rate and what you a feeling in regards to what is happening.

First Saturn and Cavilier suspensions are different. You already know this I'm sure. But you need to understand that because of the this difference you should not make too many comparisons between the 2. Because of suspension geometry the wheel rate for a given sprint rate will be different between the 2 cars. A 300 in one could make a wheel rate of 295 in one and 220 in another.

Second your Cavilier is on adjustable coilovers; There are lots of possible configurations. What is your preload or its the spring allowed to unload? To you have tender or helper springs? Standard mounts? These and more all play into how you Cavilier rides.

Really the only way you can compare is to figure out wheel rate, even then there are faults in comparing that. Saturns are simple and tend to ride harsh for their give wheel rate. A 200lb/inch spring in a may feel like a 500 in an Integra when it comes to harshness.

It is best to compare in the same car with the same alignment settings. The number of things that can effect the way to car rides can be hard to fathom. Caster, Camber, weight distribution, unsprung weight and many more; As you said seats are different as well.

What I'm trying to get at here is you have to stay vague comparing across cars, because things are different. Don't draw apple to oranges comparisons and then think the the differences are small, they may be a lot larger than you think. This isn't to say your input isn't valuable, just that there is a lot to understand and that your assumptions could be incorrect, unless tested.


H&R race springs ate through my a set of front ST struts in about 4-5 months on my car. They are a ~300Lb/inch spring. 300 is really aggressive. I'd bet money B&Gs are softer than 300.

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