Subframe rusted through

[raymondmm]

I have a 1997 SW2 wagon, the right side of the subframe is completely rusted through and cracked in 2 places. I was told by a mechanic that the parts above have dropped into the frame and that is what is causing the automatic shift to be hard to shift from park to reverse to drive.

Is this true?

What would happen if the subframe was not replaced and the cracks break through?

Wil replacing the frame make shift go back moving easily?

Melody

[eljefino]

It is more than likely the drivers side (right when looking at it from the front bumper); the passenger side gets coated with oil at every change and is well rustproofed from that.

Not only should you fix it for easy shifting, but the lower control arm bolts near this rust spot and holds your wheel on.

Just changed this on my 95, parts from 94-02 fit so see to it the junkyard gets you the newest one. A mechanic with air tools should be able to change on in 4-5 hours, took me 7-8 on the floor of my garage.





This last picture is up close to the lower transmission mount on the drivers side:

[MikeNW]

I'm not sure about the shifting being related to the rusted subframe.
BUT, if the SF is that bad, you have to replace it anyway. It supports the suspension and also the steering assembly! And the transmission. And the radiator.
It is a difficult job but worse if you have to pay someone. Many labor hours. It is a financial decision, depends on the value of the car etc., whether you replace it or cut your losses.
After the SF is replaced, check the shifting again.

[Low Saturn]

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. I wish there was a cheap shipping method so I could ship these things out. Even 18 year old sub frames out here look brand new and rust free. And I can get them relatively cheap.

Replacing one isn't time consuming nor difficult. Just have to know the right order to do things.

[alordofchaos]

Originally Posted by Low Saturn

I wish there was a cheap shipping method so I could ship these things out. Even 18 year old sub frames out here look brand new and rust free. And I can get them relatively cheap.

Do you remember (ballpark) how much they are to ship?

also, I recall my parents shipping heavy bulky stuff via Greyhound a few decades ago as it was really cheap.

I have vague plans to eventually buy a newer Sx2, rebuild the engine and put in an Sx1 t speed. Might actually be worth it to get a clean rust-free one, POR-15 and paint it if I ever get around to it.

Around here, most of the wheels have been pulled off the junkyard cars, and the subframes are sitting in mud/water most of the year.

[Low Saturn]

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

Do you remember (ballpark) how much they are to ship?

Over $100.

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

also, I recall my parents shipping heavy bulky stuff via Greyhound a few decades ago as it was really cheap.

My friend had a hood shiped this way. Its inexpensive, but a PITA. Especially if the shipper and/or receiver doesnt have a Greyhound station near by.

[MikeNW]

"Replacing one isn't time consuming nor difficult."
It is probably several hours, at a shop, if the OP wasn't able to do it.
Shoot, shops want several hundred $ to do a clutch!

"Just have to know the right order to do things."
Agree.

There are probably tons of good subframes in the south too. Same problem as you have, how to ship them.

If I move back to the "midwest", I will probably take out my SF and paint it with Rust Oleum, then put rust proofing on it.
12.5 years so far, in the west or south. I want to make it to at least 20 years. Too bad you can't powder coat the insideof the SF.

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted by MikeNW

Too bad you can't powder coat the insideof the SF.

No, but you can shoot oil/krown/whatever you want inside all the holes and hope it runs to all the locations you can't hit from the outside.. Richpin does this in one of his videos. I thought it would be a good idea to do even before I saw his video on it... I used a spray can of KROWN rust proof and soaked the inside of my subframe, mainly on the drivers side. It's in pretty good shape from being oil guarded and Krown rustproofed before I acquired it.

[TomM96]

I stuffed paper towels in the big holes , and taped over the smaller ones , before pouring a quart of Rustoleum inside my new {JY} SF, and tilting it to use gravity to paint the interior... Then coated the exterior nicely....

As regards shipping fees--
(I) Goto consumer electronics store and recover some flat-panel TV corrugated cartons [Alternatively , a bicycle shop may be better, but they tend toward the recycled cardboard (ughhh)]. Stuff a SF in that pup , stabilize with spare cardboard from wherever, and maybe newspaper . Then 'shop' it at US Postal Service , UPS , FedEx etc.
US Postal Svc is cheaper than UPS for some 'inconvenient arrays....

Sooner or later ... the prices will converge 'SubFrame Arbitrageurs' !

I bought one pretty nice here on LI ... then they sent the car to be crushed before i had a chance !

P.S.:
Great Flix, Eljefino.

[madpogue]

Originally Posted by TomM96

Sooner or later ... the prices will converge 'SubFrame Arbitrageurs' !

That may sound silly, but it reminds me of what happened with the John Deere HIR tractor headlights. They have a light for a couple models of mid-size tractor that happens to be exactly the same as the HIR 9012 (?) light that, with a minor mod, can replace a 9006 common low-beam bulb. The Sylvania, et. al. product has typically been $25-ish online. But as a tractor part, the John Deere light was only about $10, often in stock at any JD dealer. Word got out on several car discussion forum sites (like this one), and twentysomethings in riceburners started showing up at "the farm store". Soon enough, rather than seeing the "commercial" brand prices go down to compete with the JD price, the JD bulb is now right in line with the common brands, about $25. Kinda sucks for the owners of those models of tractor.....

[voice="Majel Barrett"]Warning: thread hijacked.[/voice]

[ssicarman]

To the original poster.
If the frame has allowed the engine and transmission to drop far enough there is a chance that thigs have gotten out of alignment enough that the shifter cable is binding while attached to the transmission and is fine when removed from the transmission.

[skemle]

In December of '09 my shifter cables broke on my 1997 SL. Nobody seemed to know why at the time. In retrospect I wish we would have looked over the subframe. This last Thursday while crossing the RR tracks (smooth crossing and going less than 5mph) the car pulled very hard to the right. Acted like the ball joint broke. Was able to drive off the tracks and called for a tow. When the car was lifted I could see a big hole in the subframe on the drivers side. Appears tie rods, control arms all still attached. Was supposed to drive it to Vermont the following week...very grateful this did not happen while we were on the road!
I suspect that things have shifted due to the huge hole in the subframe. The car is parked until I can find a new subframe. I live in North Central Ohio...any ideas on where I can find a new part? Found some online for 800.00. YIKES!
Really do not want to junk my car. Has 168,689 miles and would like to think that I can plenty more miles out of my Saturn. To date, it's been the most reliable car I've ever owned. HELP!

[Low Saturn]

Originally Posted by skemle

Found some online for 800.00. YIKES!

Does that $800 include shipping? Just curious. $800 is a lot, but its cheper than a new car with monthly payment's or taking the chances on another used car.

I've always talked about buying subframes (engine cradles) at me local pick-n-pull and selling them on-line. The last time I bought one, it was $29.99 + tax + core. That was about ten years ago. I'm sure the price has gone up since then. But it can't be by much. Even if it's doubled, it's still not a bad price. The only kick in the butt would be shipping.

I figure shipping it freight would be the cheapest. UPS and FedEx have freight services and there are countless others as well. The buyer would have to pick it up at the local dispatch center, or if they have a loading dock at their place of business, thats another option. When I swapped out the interior of my Aura, the place I bought the parts from shipped it all freight to my work. Saved me $200 in shipping.

[Dr. Sprock]

just get the dims off the factory print, or blue print it yourself,

then get an out of work welder to fab up that weldment,

materials would be about 200 bucks,

the welder guy, if he is a heavy drinker, and have you ever met a fork lift driver, machinist, or metal frabricator that did not have a drinking problem?

or maybe a meth freak, just looik for a 73 el camino and a guy with an under age chick by his side, those guys are cheap too.

we think not.

so a case of hamms for 9.99 at luck would do it,

that is actually 30 cans, not 24,

do we need an aluminum version of that for us weight fantics?

we think so, how much weight would we save?

carbon fiber off a downed jet?

[Low Saturn]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sprock

just get the dims off the factory print, or blue print it yourself,

then get an out of work welder to fab up that weldment,

materials would be about 200 bucks,

the welder guy, if he is a heavy drinker, and have you ever met a fork lift driver, machinist, or metal frabricator that did not have a drinking problem?

or maybe a meth freak, just looik for a 73 el camino and a guy with an under age chick by his side, those guys are cheap too.

we think not.

so a case of hamms for 9.99 at luck would do it,

that is actually 30 cans, not 24,

do we need an aluminum version of that for us weight fantics?

we think so, how much weight would we save?

carbon fiber off a downed jet?

What kind of drugs are you taking?

[Dr. Sprock]

start naming stuff...

seriously, if you had a little miller mig welder, tell me you couldn't go down the 101 to whipple and get alan steel to sell you some box channel,

ok, so you would go to commercial st and take it off a car,

but back east, if you built it local, then no shipping charges.

[madpogue]

Originally Posted by Low Saturn

What kind of drugs are you taking?

Double-spaceium?....

They charged you a core on a subframe? They actually wanted a bent/rusted one in return?

[Low Saturn]

Originally Posted by madpogue

Double-spaceium?....

They charged you a core on a subframe? They actually wanted a bent/rusted one in return?

Yeah, so it can be properly recycled rather than illegally dumped somewhere.

[Mgg4591]

Originally Posted by Low Saturn

I've always talked about buying subframes (engine cradles) at me local pick-n-pull and selling them on-line. The last time I bought one, it was $29.99 + tax + core.

Harry's wants 25.00-70.00 for their sub frames + a 5.00 core. I'm guessing a Saturn cradle would be on the lower 25.00 side, assuming their priced by size.

[alordofchaos]

Originally Posted by skemle

I live in North Central Ohio...any ideas on where I can find a new part?

www.car-part.com or your local pick n pull place (took a while, but I found two about 30 miles away), and take a look at the How To library for instructions/video