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#1 | |
Administrator
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A new story entry has been added:
[drupal=3447]Saturn Was Also a Different Kind of Manufacturer[/drupal] Quote:
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2008 Saturn Outlook XR 2005 VUE Red Line 2002 L300 (sold) |
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#2 |
Master Member
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A cooperative relationship between workers and management - that's crazy talk! Almost removes the need for a union. Blasphemy!
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Toyota: Moving Forward... off a cliff at a high rate of speed. |
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#3 | |
Advanced Member
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As for a cooperative relationship, like socialism, that's nice in theory ... it works for a little while until problems arrive that require mutual sacrifice, then human nature kicks in ... every person for themselves. Once the honeymoon is over, things look pretty ugly when the bills come due. |
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#4 |
New Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2
1998 SL2
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I strongly suggest that you read the book "Crash Course" by Paul Ingrassia. He actually spends a fair amount of time on the the decline of Saturn, which was largely the work of Stephen Yokich, a UAW Vice President who couldn't tolerate the idea of a company based upon a positive worker-management relationship.
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#5 |
Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 89
2007 ION-3 Sedan
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Maybe GM or the UAW will learn something
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#6 |
Master Member
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Posts: 3,521
2008 Outlook XR
2007 AURA XR
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unfortunately i dont thing they learned from the whole saturn experience. i was there at the beginning and it was a great set up.
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#7 | |
Master Member
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Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 7,030
2006 VUE Red Line
2007 SKY
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In the 80's Roger Smith could see the problem and created Saturn. He retired in 1990 and as soon as the "old school" GM had enough control they did every thing they could to liquidate Saturn.
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2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11 |
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#8 | |
Senior Member
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--- Don't blame a clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why YOU keep going to the circus. |
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#9 | |
Junior Member
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Posts: 26
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The UAW workers could have worked for free and it would not have made much difference. The cost of UAW labor was less then 9% including full benefits and that was before the lower pay scale. GM lost BILLIONS to Fiat when they attempted to outsource production of small cars in the USA. That happened at the same time they were cutting investment in Saturn future products. |
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#10 |
Member
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Posts: 89
2007 ION-3 Sedan
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Saturn was, now is no more so you can argue all you want about it. Unless all involved go about doing things different you can argue who killed GM in a few years.
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#11 | |
Junior Member
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Posts: 26
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Not trying to come off as a know it all idiot but hey, It was my job to know the data and be part of the decision to outsource or not. |
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#12 |
Member
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Posts: 350
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Yes, most sophmoric pundits forget the Fiat debacle. Most probably have never seen a Fiat nor know what country it stems from. How many billions did GM dispose of in this Fiat end game?
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#13 | |
New Member
![]() Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 7
2007 VUE 3.6L
2002 SL2
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#14 |
Member
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Location: Kentucky
Posts: 302
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At least it appears that some(dealers) have learned something from the Saturn experience. The dealer group I bought my Saturns from has apparently taken the sales philosophy and the service model from the Saturn part and incorporated it in their Cadillac franchise---except for the "fair, no haggle price" part anyway. Actually, my Saturn salesperson is now with Cadillac, much to my relief--so when and if I replace my CTS I know I will get a decent deal.
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#15 |
Member
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Posts: 273
2004 ION-3 Quad Coupe
1997 SC2
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^ Funny you should mention that, Mike. Loved working at a Caddy dealer early in my career, big focus on customer service there (back in the early 90's, it was alot of WWII and Korea vets around the lounge, we'd get to chatting about military matters, often times they'd see my calendar or small posters of old fighter planes or something like that, and they were happy to tell their stories to someone familiar with the history of the subject). If my partnership with my current dealer group should end with the closing of our Saturn store, would love to get back to that brand. They've been good to me, though, and don't really want to go hat in hand and try to get in somewhere.
That said, from what I have seen as management in Saturn facilities since 1997, it was the watering down of the original purpose and mission of Saturn that led to us being clipped so easily. Seems when we really got a solid following, and were on the the second or third car in some families, GM decided they needed to have more product here. Just thinking if we had kept to the S series (a different and actually better design than most every other small car, ask those of us who have seen many crashed ones at body shops), freshened up the interiors, exteriors, and did the necessary mandated updates along the way, we'd be in a great position right now with a proven, affordable-to-own American-made product. Many parts used since 1991, so availability and dealer stock were good, among many other niceties for the owner in the interface with the dealer. High mileage, weather resistant exterior to keep it looking great, all sorts of good reasons to keep our identity, and also keep costs down by utilizing designs for maximum length of service. But history cannot be rewritten, and here we are. Perhaps the bean counters or fancy marketing types will chime in with a bunch of reasons why I'm crazy, but that's how this guy sees it.
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A different kind of parts guy...now in a bow tie! |
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