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Old 11-30-2009, 01:39 AM   #1
rentfrow1
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Default '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

I am preparing to rebuild/overhaul the engine in my 99 SL2 (116000 mi) because it is burning oil (4-6 qt/3000mi), and because I want to put a manual in it. I have read the "Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2" thread, and rc1488's "'97 DOHC Engine Rebuild Operation Debrief", and I am trying to get as much as I can prepared before I dig in.

I have a junkyard manual transmission cleaned and pulled apart, and I am working on getting the diff pin welded. I also have all the other goodies for the manual transmission swap: clutch/brake pedals, hydraulics, PCM, shifter, cables, and some stuff I probably forgot.

The engine has nothing wrong with it other than the fact that it burns oil, so below is my planned shopping list. I am waiting until I get the engine apart in 2-3 weeks to order parts. Please advise on any modifications/additions...

Part|Source|Price|Brand
Rings SaturnParts 111.56 OEM Saturn
Rod Bearings Rock Auto 19.16 Clevite
Main Bearings Rock Auto 40.79 Clevite
Gasket Kit SaturnParts 165.80 OEM Saturn
Timing Set SaturnParts 187.20 OEM Saturn
Head Bolts Rock Auto 26.79 FEL-PRO
Clutch Kit Phoenix Friction Products 102.29 Luk
Trans. Axle Seals Rock Auto 7.39 Timken
Hub Nuts Rock Auto 5.30 Raybestos
Upper Rad. Hose Rock Auto 13.46 Dayco
Man. Trans + Acc. Pick n Pull 90.00 OEM Saturn
Hone (GB31432) Drillspot.com 43.35 BrushResearch

I am hoping to not have to replace the timing set. I am also looking for a machine shop to do the head and crank near Columbus, OH. The cheapest I have found is Central Ohio Engine Rebuilders. They told me $350ish for the valve job (including hot dip and face milling) and $40ish to measure and polish the crank. Does that sound about right?

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Old 11-30-2009, 09:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by rentfrow1 View Post

Fixed

Part|Source|Price|Brand
Rings Rockauto 111.56 Hastings
Rod Bearings Rock Auto 19.16 Clevite
Main Bearings Rock Auto 40.79 Clevite

Gasket Kit Rock auto 165.80 Felpro
Timing Set Ebay 187.20 PCI or I forget the other brand
Head Bolts Rock Auto 26.79 FEL-PRO
Clutch Kit Clutchcityonline 159 (102.29 seems to cheap) Luk
Trans. Axle Seals Rock Auto 7.39 Timken
Hub Nuts Rock Auto 5.30 For how many? Raybestos
Upper Rad. Hose Rock Auto 13.46 Dayco
Man. Trans + Acc. Pick n Pull 90.00 OEM Saturn
Hone (GB31432) Drillspot.com 43.35 BrushResearch
Miles on the car??

For the items in bold you MUST wait until the crank and block are inspected. Then get exact specs from the shop in what to buy or just have them buy them for you.

Oil pressure relief valve along with a new oil pump is a good idea to replace.

100 for a clutch kit....seems to cheap to me. Double check that.

Little expensive for the head work I think. Find a local NAPA. They are pretty good.

Ill see I have the guys email address that I sold my hone to. Its cheaper to borrow one then buy a band new one

...
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:07 AM   #3
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

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Originally Posted by rentfrow1 View Post
The engine has nothing wrong with it other than the fact that it burns oil ...
I am hoping to not have to replace the timing set.
There's a redesigned oil ring that is supposed to help with the oil-burning issue - I remember Low Saturn posting the name recently, within the last month or two. He and a few others have used it and have no oil burning issues. another common cure is either having oil-drain holes drilled in the lands or buying pistons with the holes pre-drilled.

So far as teh timing set, you may want to check how far the tensioner is out... if it's getting near the end of its travel, you may want to replace the set at that point.

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Old 11-30-2009, 08:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

Just ordered:
Gasket Set..........165.80...SaturnParts.net
Upper Rad. Hose...15.51....SaturnParts.net
Oil Bypass Valve...16.45.....SaturnParts.net
Luk Clutch Kit.......135.00...All About Clutches (eBay)
Flex Hone............43.35.....DrillSpot.com
Head Bolts...........26.79.....Rock Auto
Trans Axle Seals...7.39.......Rock Auto
Hub Nuts.............5.30.......Rock Auto

I will have to wait until I get the engine apart to order the bearings, rings, timing set.

I also found a directory of engine machine shops...
crankshaftco.com/engine-repair-directory
(not allowed to post links yet)

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Old 12-01-2009, 12:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

You should get a new oil pump and relief valve also.

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Old 12-01-2009, 04:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

I ordered the relief valve. Do you really think I will need the oil pump too? I know it is not very expensive, but all those little things really add up.

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Old 12-01-2009, 05:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

Its your choice and hard to give a definite answer untill you get to see the old one.

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Old 12-05-2009, 04:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

Ok, I got all the parts I ordered so far. Now I am trying to figure out what tools I am going to need. I have a well stocked garage, but what specialty tools am I going to need. I know I'll need a ring compressor and a couple of large size sockets (which sizes?), but what else?

I found a shop to do the machine work. They were $200ish for the valve job (hot dip, measure, shave, regrind seats) and $50ish to measure and polish the crank. They said they would measure the block for free if I brought it in, and they even offered me a tour of their shop.

Advantage Motor Works, Mansfield, OH

Thanks for the help so far. I will hopefully be pulling the engine next weekend.

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Old 12-05-2009, 05:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

I just finished a total rebuild on a 96 SL2.

Avoid resurfacing the head if possible. Only do it if absolutely necessary. Thats the recommendation I got.

Make sure you have both types of torque wrenchs, one for ft/lbs and the other for inch/lbs since there are a number of bolts which torque using inch/lbs.

Don't get the cheap ring compressors like Advance sells. Get the better ones which come with a separate handle (to squeeze the rings) and a set of different compressor rings for different size pistons.

You will need a angle torgue gauge (about $10 at AutoZone) to torque down the head bolts. There is a sequence to follow, first with the bolts dry and then with the bolts oiled and finally with a angle torque gauge to 90 degrees. Use a breaker bar with the angle torque gauge.

Get a can of acetone for cleaning parts before assembling. For example wipe the head and block surfaces clean with acetone before putting head on. Clean all the bearings and bearing surfaces with acetone and then put engine lube on them when assembling. I used the CRC brand engine lube which has graphite in it and comes in a tube. Lube everthing that moves. Lube the cylinders real good and the pistons and rings before installing them.

Make sure the machine shop tests the crankshaft for end play. Also have them test the cylinder bores with a dial bore gauge to make sure they are within specs. I bought a dial bore gauge and a electronic caliper so I could test the crankshaft and cylinders for wear.

If the machine shop doesn't bore/hone the cylinders then get a bottle brush hone which is 320 grit to hone the cylinders yourself.

You can follow my rebuild job experience from the following post:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...44#post1524144

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Old 12-06-2009, 01:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

I've got two large click-type torque wrenches and I just got the appropriate bottle brush hone. I forgot about the angle torque gauge and the inch pound torque wrench, and I still need to get a ring compressor.

I am only planning on getting machine work that is necessary, but I have been trying to price out a worst case scenario, or at least as bad as it can get with an engine that I have had for the last 70000 mi with no mechanical problems. I have kept up with the oil changes. All the machine shops think I am crazy when I say I don't need to have the block bored or have the crank journals reground.

I do plan on having the machine shop measure everything (head, block, crank), but I do have a dial indicator and calipers, so I can check the end play and other basic dimensions.

Thanks

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Old 12-06-2009, 01:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

You will be surprised at the wear you find.

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Old 12-06-2009, 02:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

with 116k you may get away with the bore as is. But I dont think you'll be so lucky with the crank. Mine (if it wasn't warped) needed to be ground down one size.

...
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Old 12-06-2009, 03:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

If you have any out of round or taper you are done and if the wear is 0.003 to 0.004 or more you should rebore or do not be surprised when the rings do not seat.

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Old 12-07-2009, 03:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

I am only hoping for the best when it comes to the machine work. I will play it by ear and do whatever machine work needs done. That is why I am taking the head, block, and crank all to the machine shop together. I will have them measure everything and recondition/remachine whatever needs it. I am hoping for the best because I have had the car for most of its life, so I know it has been treated well, and I am still driving it without issue. The most serious problem I have had with it was when it had trouble starting, because the crank position sensor was going bad, and that was a really easy fix. Like I said, I am not worrying about the machining yet, because the engine is still in the car running. If all goes well it won't be in the car by the end of the weekend, though. Then things will start to get interenting.

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Old 12-07-2009, 05:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

As soon as you have the head off you can check the bores with your fingernail. Clean the top area of each cylinder with a scotch brite to get rid of the carbon. Then slide your finger up under the ridge and see if you can feel it or get your finger nail caught under it. The last joint of your finger should also be touching the cylinder wall when you do this. If you can feel your nail slide over it that is .002 to .003 and if it catches then its .008 or more. Almost catches is .004 to .005 range. Also check at both sides and front/back to see that the wear is symmetrical. If its not symmetrical then it is a problem. The wear is almost a function of the quality of oil used as long as the level is maintained.

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Old 12-07-2009, 08:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

if you have to get the head or block shaved take them to a combined .04, since the shop will charge you the same amount, might as well get the most power you can. and if you need the block bored to clean it up, might as well go to .04 over there, since they'll charge you the same.

...
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

I have always used Valvoline or Penzoil 5W-30 oil, and I have never let the oil level drop below the minimum mark on the dipstick.

I will check for a ridge when I get the head off. I will try to avoid using the ridge reamer if I can, and I will measure all the dimensions that I can with calipers when I get the engine apart. I will be sure to report back when I have any info.

Does anyone know what large size metric sockets I will need? I think I remember hearing 22mm and 30mm, but don't quote me on that.

Once again, thanks for all the help so far everyone.

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Old 12-07-2009, 09:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

That sounds like most of the large ones. You could spend 20.00 or so and buy a set of metric 1/2 drive impact sockets at Harbor Freight. Then you will have the right size.

Just initially clean the cylinder tops with a scotch brite sprayed with WD-40 to get the carbon off. Emery paper is better than a ridge reamer unless you actually know how to set it up because if you cut too deep you have just made a boat anchor.

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Old 12-07-2009, 11:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by rentfrow1 View Post
I have always used Valvoline or Penzoil 5W-30 oil, and I have never let the oil level drop below the minimum mark on the dipstick.

I will check for a ridge when I get the head off. I will try to avoid using the ridge reamer if I can, and I will measure all the dimensions that I can with calipers when I get the engine apart. I will be sure to report back when I have any info.

Does anyone know what large size metric sockets I will need? I think I remember hearing 22mm and 30mm, but don't quote me on that.

Once again, thanks for all the help so far everyone.
30MM for the axle nuts.
21mm for the Crankshaft pulley bolt
21mm for the strut to knuckle nuts (if you go that route).
19MM for the lug nuts


Those are the biggest sizes. Most of the engine parts are 8MM, 10MM, 13MM and 15MM.

...
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: '99 SL2 Engine Rebuild

Today is the day.

We have the engine out, and we are taking it apart. We are working on the oil pan and crank pulley. How do you get the crank pulley off? We have the bolt out but it is stuck on the crankshaft. Otherwise everything is going well.

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