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Old 11-23-2009, 10:35 AM   #1
2003 Saturn Vue
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Anybody have an opinion on this, a similar experience?

I've gotten the "reduced power" light about a half dozen times over the past 10 months. AFAI can remember it's come on in conjunction with the SES light. I've also gotten just the SES only. Ran codes a month or so ago and it came back clean, "no codes found" on the scanner.

Well, yesterday morning I head out and bang - SES and reduced power. Shut the car off and wait about 30 seconds, start back up and the reduced power has gone out. <--- this is what I've done in the past as well. Reduced power light never stays on but I've had the SES stay on for maybe a day or two.

So I head to Advance Auto and run the scanner, I figure just having the reduced power light on and the SES still on, I would get something.

Zero, zip, nada, not a single code, scanner came back "no code found".



Any ideas?

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Old 12-01-2009, 12:05 PM   #2
2003 Saturn Vue
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

man alive?

62 views and not a single person has had this happen?

I cannot be the lucky one here, the only person with a discombobulated Vue.

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Old 12-01-2009, 04:03 PM   #3
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2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2003 Saturn Vue View Post
man alive?

62 views and not a single person has had this happen?

I cannot be the lucky one here, the only person with a discombobulated Vue.
I don't have the 3.0 but did find a service bulletin for something similar to what you've encountered.

The file is too large to post but I'll email if you PM an address.

Here's a cut and paste from the bulletin header:

(MIL) Service Engine Soon Telltale Lamp On, Reduced Power
Lamp May Illuminate with DTCs P0121, P0221 and/or P2135
(Replace Throttle Body, Throttle Body Connector, Throttle Body
Terminals and Install #03-06-04-043 - (Sep 11, 2003)

(MIL) Service Engine Soon Telltale Lamp On, Reduced Power Lamp May Illuminate with DTCs P0121, P0221, and/or P2135 (Replace
Throttle Body, Throttle Body Connector, Throttle Body Terminals and Install Throttle Body Pigtail Retainer to Throttle Body and Harness)

2000-2003 Saturn L-Series

2002-2003 Saturn VUE Vehicles with 3.0L V6 Engine (VIN R -- RPO L81)

Condition: Some customers may comment the (MIL) SERVICE ENGINE SOON and Reduced Power Lamp may come on intermittently and/or stay on.
DTCs P0121, P0221 and/or P2135 may be set.

Cause: This condition may be caused by loose or poor terminal tightness at the engine harness-to-throttle body connection.

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Old 12-02-2009, 02:14 PM   #4
1saxman
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Get a can of CRC Electronic Parts Cleaner, Plastic Safe, take all elec. connectors apart ONE AT A TIME, spray them out and put back together. Check the primary ground locations (braided steel cable bolted to engine and body). Check for looseness and corrosion. Loosen them, spray the cleaner and tighten. This is basic survival maintenance for aging modern computer-equipped vehicles. For the ground connections, you can also spray them with a heavy, waxy protectant after cleaning.

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Old 12-03-2009, 05:05 AM   #5
DejaVUE
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

You might have to bite the bullet and take it to a SATURN dealer (if there are any around anymore) to have them pull the codes. I was having problems with my '03 2.2L not playing nice with code scanners. Check out this thread for more of that story:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...=108619&page=2

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Old 12-07-2009, 03:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

I had this happen. Ended up being the alternator was going out. Went to Autozone they tested it and sure enough that is what is was. Not sure if this helps. We have an '02 Vue V6 AWD. For the '02 there were two different ones; ours was the cheaper of the two which was nice.

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Old 01-04-2010, 10:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
I don't have the 3.0 but did find a service bulletin for something similar to what you've encountered.

The file is too large to post but I'll email if you PM an address.[/I]
Would it be possible to have you email me this TSB also?

Thanks!

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Old 01-04-2010, 03:43 PM   #8
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2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

You have the 4 cylinder correct? Manual or Auto?

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Old 01-07-2010, 02:11 AM   #9
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2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

I had a big problem with this and ultimately Saturn ended up buying the car back from me. The reason you aren't seeing codes is probably because you have a low end code reader. You want to get a reader that can read manufacture codes as well as P codes. Expect to pay around $200 for such a scanner. The manufacture code I was getting was an error in the peddle position sensor. These cars don't have any direct link between the gas peddle and the throttle body. Rather the peddle simply sends a signal to the computer which then adjusts the throttle body butterfly door, etc. The dealer changed out the sensor, the throttle body and the wiring harness. Ultimately, after the 10th failure (and while we were in arbitration) the problem happened again. The Saturn negotiator threw up her arms and said "ok, we'll buy it back, just don't take it back to the dealer again". hehehe


-Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2003 Saturn Vue View Post
Anybody have an opinion on this, a similar experience?

I've gotten the "reduced power" light about a half dozen times over the past 10 months. AFAI can remember it's come on in conjunction with the SES light. I've also gotten just the SES only. Ran codes a month or so ago and it came back clean, "no codes found" on the scanner.

Well, yesterday morning I head out and bang - SES and reduced power. Shut the car off and wait about 30 seconds, start back up and the reduced power has gone out. <--- this is what I've done in the past as well. Reduced power light never stays on but I've had the SES stay on for maybe a day or two.

So I head to Advance Auto and run the scanner, I figure just having the reduced power light on and the SES still on, I would get something.

Zero, zip, nada, not a single code, scanner came back "no code found".



Any ideas?

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Old 01-07-2010, 04:13 AM   #10
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Here's a partial reprint from the FSM;

Reduced Engine Power Mode (no error codes)
When the ECM detects a condition with the TAC system, the ECM may enter a reduced engine power mode. Reduced engine power may cause one or more of the following conditions:

Acceleration limiting--The ECM will continue to use the accelerator pedal for throttle control; however, the vehicle acceleration is limited.
Limited throttle mode--The ECM will continue to use the accelerator pedal for throttle control; however, the maximum throttle opening is limited.
Throttle default mode--The ECM will turn off the throttle actuator motor and the throttle will return to the spring loaded default position.
Forced idle mode--The ECM will perform the following actions:
Limit engine speed to idle by positioning the throttle position, or by controlling the fuel and spark if the throttle is turned off.
Ignore the accelerator pedal input.
Engine shutdown mode--The ECM will disable fuel and de-energize the throttle actuator.

The suggestion of the accelerator pedal assembly (APP) as one of two failure points may be possible in view of a lack of error codes. The other failure would be the throttle actuator control assembly (TAC or electronic throttle body). I can reprint the throttle actuator control system description if needed.

...
*The CPS is the heart of the entire EFI system. No cps = dead EFI system*
*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

Last edited by fdryer; 01-07-2010 at 04:19 AM..

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Old 01-09-2010, 10:10 PM   #11
scys
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1998 SC2
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

I only have had my reduced power light on once. I have a 02 4 cylinder,5 speed. It happened the first time I filled up with gas, it ran bad and I though it was just my luck to drive 2km and have a problem with my new (used) car. It hasn't happened again 100 000km later. When I search for it all that could explain it was bad gas as I read somewhere on this forum (3yrs ago)that watered down or bad gas could cause the reduced power light to be activated because of low octain level.
Does it always happen after filling up? At the same gas stations?
Cy

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Old 01-10-2010, 12:05 AM   #12
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Fuel most likely isn't the cause of your reduced power situation. Consider it a hiccup in the overall picture since it hasn't occurred again. The issue surrounds the electronics and dealing with what can go wrong and using a back-up system to get around the issue - reduced power mode is dealing with getting around an electronics problem between the throttle and pedal.

The few posts related to drive-by-wire systems (totally electronically controlled throttle with an electronic pedal) is where reduced power mode programs are designed for the possible failure of one of these two subsystems. Because throttle by wire is completely electronic, the hardware/software engineers had to design a back-up system in case something goes wrong; reduced power mode as described in the previous post. Any electronic failure in our cars would make it necessary, if possible, to allow continuesd driving as long as it doesn't endanger the driver or become a hazard to traffic. Reduced power mode allows very limited power to drive a vehicle to a safe area to make the phone call for help instead of simply dying on the road. Reduced power mode will give you the ability to at least move the vehicle to the slow lane and continue at "reduced power" to get semewhere. The choice between a dead engine or continued driving is easy to choose when given a choice.

...
*The CPS is the heart of the entire EFI system. No cps = dead EFI system*
*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

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Old 01-12-2010, 08:23 PM   #13
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

My 03 did this exact same thing last weekend. I waited a day and tried it again and no CEL no reduced power. I still unplugged the harness at the throttle body cleaned and sprayed it out with WD-40. SO far so good. Crosses fingers.

Dave

...
Never let facts stand in the way of a good opinion!!

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Old 01-13-2010, 05:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Correct. The reduced power is very intentional, the PCM is reducing the power for a reason, usually because it has confusing information about the position of the peddle, the TB, etc. It could just shut down the engine but if you were on a railroad track that wouldn't be too good.

-Robert


Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Fuel most likely isn't the cause of your reduced power situation. Consider it a hiccup in the overall picture since it hasn't occurred again. The issue surrounds the electronics and dealing with what can go wrong and using a back-up system to get around the issue - reduced power mode is dealing with getting around an electronics problem between the throttle and pedal.

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Old 05-14-2010, 10:04 AM   #15
MOST CARS FIX
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Thumbs Up Re: SES light + Reduced power light = NO codes!

Hi you all.
This is my first time on here.
I fixed my Saturn 2.2L Reduced power & SES light codes 1516,1512 & all the rest by doing this:

1- Make sure the tbs is clean and responsive some what when open &shut IGN.
2- Start your Saturn even if running rough.
3- In ENG compartment remove the (40A) BATT FEED FUSE.

Now all warning lights in the dash are on
Wait about 30-60 Sec then put the Fuse back

4- Shut the car off then open IGN again you should here the TBS getting rest.
5- This solution will not reset the SES,use OBDII for reset.

I think the dealer's will never tell this you know why$$$$$$$$$$?
Hope this post is helpful to you all,it worked for me.
GOOD LUCK

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