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Old 11-12-2009, 08:34 AM   #1
grover
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Default Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

First - I am a new member. I'll admit to being a noob on this site - and I have not yet done an extensive search. But, I wanted to start a thread to document the details on this issue. If anyone has any input - it would be most appreciated.

I run a Car Care ministry at my local Church for Widows and Single moms. We provide free assistance and try to help as much as possible.

Ok - more details.

A Widow at Church has a 2002 Saturn L200 that will not start. The independant shop where she had it could not figure it out and returned the car to her.

The fuel pump was replaced a couple of months ago. There was a fuel smell/leak. It ran fine after that.

She hit a curb with the right/front and bent the rim. It ran fine after that.

The battery died. Her son replaced the battery and then drove it to the parts store to price an alternator. It would not start after that. They went ahead and put on a new alternator. Still would not start.

Towed to a local shop (that did the fuel pump).

Car kept blowing a fuse (not sure yet which one). Eventually, the fuse didn't blow any more (not sure if this is good or bad).

The car turns over but will not fire. There is no fuel or fuel pressure on the fuel rail. The Fuel Pump and Fuel Pump relay both check out good and have voltage. Voltage at relay looks good (pin #30 gets power when key is turned on). Swapped relay and fuse with others - no change.

The shop apparently dropped the tank and tested the fuel pump and it checked out good.

It appears that either the wiring to the pump is bad (possibly due to curb), the fuel pressure regulator is not telling the pump to run, or other issues (ecu, etc.).

Next steps: check out wiring at/near pump to see if it is getting any voltage on either the pump power or switch power.

I didn't have a lift or stands with me last night - so this is as far as I got.

I don't have a FSM or Haynes manual yet. Any thoughts on whether a Haynes/Chilton would be any good - or should I just get the factory FSM.

Any other "Saturn" issues that I should check.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Grover
Dallas

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Old 11-12-2009, 09:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

In reviewing this thread - I find the following things to check....

[/url]/forums/showthread.php?t=144136&highlight=fuel+pressure[/url]

1. Check Ground wire resistance at fuel pump

2. Jump socket pins 30 to 87 to turn fuel pump *on* (listen)

3. Check/Replace Fuel Filter

4. Check CPS if 1-3 work and we get fuel pressure - but still no start

Film at 11

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Old 11-12-2009, 09:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

Will check fuel filter here:
/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16153&d=1251085015
The shop "thinks" they replaced it when they did they pump.

Also, they said that the pump was not getting power. But, worked when bench tested. Maybe ground, cps or wiring.

The fuse that was blowing was the ignition fuse. From drivers side "10a - 3rd row in from rt - closest to you.". Scary.....

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Old 11-12-2009, 11:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

When she hit the curb it's possible she popped the fuel pump safety switch which cuts power to the fuel pump in case of an accident. Don't recall exactly where it is, but it's somewhere under the passenger side dash or passenger side foot well.

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Old 11-12-2009, 11:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

Quote:She hit a curb with the right/front and bent the rim. It ran fine after that.

The battery died. Her son replaced the battery and then drove it to the parts store to price an alternator. It would not start after that. They went ahead and put on a new alternator. Still would not start.

Towed to a local shop (that did the fuel pump).

Car kept blowing a fuse (not sure yet which one). Eventually, the fuse didn't blow any more (not sure if this is good or bad).


I'd be inclined to check that wires weren't crossed/damaged when the alt. was replaced. Best.

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Old 11-12-2009, 12:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

No fuel pump safety switch in the L-series - none shown in the wiring diagrams.

There are two IGN 10A fuses and one B+ 10A fuse, all for the pcm. B+ is HOT while the other two are switched (IGN-0, IGN-1).

Fuel pump wiring;
87 - HOT 12v
30 - to fuel pump
86 - ground
85 - 12v control signal from pcm to energize the fuel pump relay

Socket pin 85 will have 12v only during one of two events; 12v when the ignition is ON during the first 2-3 seconds (then it [12v and pump] goes away) OR when the engine rotates (starting or running).

During ignition ON, the pcm will run the pump for only 2-3 seconds then shuts off power. This the best time to listen for the faint hum/hiss of the fuel pump running then depressing the fuel test valve for fuel spray to verify pressure. During starting or running the pcm will turn on the fuel pump for as long as the engine rotates; the cps actually directs the pcm to operate because the cps supplies the precise timing signals that the pcm needs before it can run the EFI system - power the fuel pump, initiate ignition/spark, and pulse the injectors.

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Old 11-12-2009, 02:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

I checked the fuel pump relay - and I'm pretty sure that I got readings that match exactly what you say for 85,87 and 30. I pulled the relay up a touch and used a probe to check the blades. I'll check again jus tto be sure.

If in fact 30 has power - and no sound from the Pump - then it's probably a wiring or ground issue (assume the pump in fact is good).

I'll probably hotwire the pump (87 to 30) - to skip the 3 second part and reall listen for the pump. If nothing, then check ground first and then hot wire to pump.

I should have a Chilton manual with a wiring diagram when I check next.

I plan to troubleshoot the fuel pump first before heading down the 10a ignition relay/pcm road.

Thanks!

Grover

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Old 11-12-2009, 02:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

Pin 30 will have 12v (only when the internal relay contacts close) leaving the relay to power up the fuel pump. You can remove the relay entirely and still measure everything while having someone cycle the ignition switch so you can monitor pin 85 go HOT for 2-3 seconds. Jumpering 30 and 87 is just bypassing the electronics to manually power the fuel pump for "old school" troubleshooting.

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Old 11-13-2009, 10:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

In reviewing this thread:
/forums/showthread.php?t=144210&highlight=fuel+pump+ground +location

I see some nice pics. But, I don't see where G401 (the fuel pump ground) is located on the body.

From what i've read - the pump is on top of the tank - and you can get to all of the wiring by removing the back seat. Is this the best way to get to the Fuel Pump wiring? I juts want to verify that the pump is A) actually getting 12 volts when I jumper 87 to 30 and B) that the ground is good. Since i was getting voltage at 30 when testing everything the other night - I assume that we're good up front. Anyway - just looking for a way to access the Fuel Pump wiring as close to the actual pump as possible (w/o removing the tank if I can).

Grover

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Old 11-13-2009, 10:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

Almost every fuel pump is inside the tank with fuel lines and wiring built into one unit for modular replacement. Check rockauto.com for pictures so you'll have a better idea. The ground return wire for the pump will be in the back where the license plate lamps, rear high mounted stop lights, and trunk solenoid are all tied together.

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Old 11-16-2009, 11:42 AM   #11
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

Update from the weekend:

I removed the heat shield from the back and checked power to the pump. The Fuel Pump plug has 7 wires.

It looks like a green/back pair, a purple/back pair, a grey/black pair that are obviously larger, and I guess an extract black one for sport.

I checked all of the grounds and they showed no resistance. I also checked the ground wire below the back seat and the one on the body just in front of the LR tail light assembly. No apparent corrosion.

The green and purple wires both showed about 4.3 volts and were switched with the ignition. I'm guessing that these were the fuel gauge.

I had an "old school" paper clip in the 87 to 30 Fule Pump relay - and the Grey wire showed 12.5 volts. It's partner black wire also showed a good ground.

I did not hear any sound from the fuel pump withthe paper clip in place - not did I have any fuel pressure at the rail.

At this point, we either have a wiring problem or a bad pump. Yes - this pump was replaced 2 months ago and was supposedly bench tested again after the starting problem.

I am going to drop the tank and check the wiring to the pump and the pump itself. I've never dropped a gas tank - but the Chilton manual and this website provide some pretty good tips.

Grover

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Old 10-08-2013, 02:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Widow in need - L200 will not start - fuel pressure

Ever figure this one out?

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