mechanics are puzzled

[wallingclan]

The Serp Belt went on the Vue, drove for about a mile went to the first shop. It was hot real hot of course. Shop changed the belt. I picked up the car ran fine but was idlin a little rough. Five hours later the service engine light came on and I noticed a really rough idle at a stop and the sel blinks.

Shop said the mech that does the codes was on vacation. Took the Vue to another mech, recommended 30 years GM (Chevys etc) he said the 1 3 5 are misfiring, replaced the coil and plugs. Still having same problem. I did'nt pay for the repair yet. He has to consult with another mech. Might have to take it to the dealer, don't want to, that will be expensive. Any body have the same prob?

2003 awd VUE 3.0 99,200 miles

[chillin05VUE]

I'm wandering if you over-heated the engine. Did any other lights come one while you were driving it to the shop? Did the temp gauge go in to hot zone?

[Tom92SCm]

With no serp belt you won't have a water pump. No water pump and continued use will result in SUPER HOT operating conditions.

My guess is that you overheated the engine and caused some serious damage. Possibilities include a warped cylinder head, blown head gasket......

[wolfman]

Originally Posted by Tom92SCm

With no serp belt you won't have a water pump. No water pump and continued use will result in SUPER HOT operating conditions.

My guess is that you overheated the engine and caused some serious damage. Possibilities include a warped cylinder head, blown head gasket......

My initial thoughts exactly. Saving $100 for a tow truck may have just cost you $3k for an engine.

[mrtube]

a warped head or blown head gasket with no leaking or white smoke? . I see it leaking water or oil LONG before leaking compression. and if its leaking water into the cylinders it should be smoking white. a lot

[Tom92SCm]

I once had a blown head gasket with no white smoke. Instead of oil/water leaking into the combustion chambers, I had oil mixing into the coolant. It wasn't until an oily, watery puddle formed under my car from an overfilled coolant overflow bottle that I knew anything about it.

[mrtube]

Tom, actually we had that on our 95 lumina last year which our vue replaced. Sorta.

It would never pull from the overflow tank, the rad would end up low with oil in the water. Never saw white smoke either. Was a shame, the engine had 160K on it, the only thing ever used in it was mobil 1 except for the factory fill. It looked like brand new under the valve covers. had to junk it due to cracked head. was my best friends car for most of its life, he was doing the oil every 3K even with the synthetic

[Tom92SCm]

Mine had about 185,000 miles on it. I'm pretty sure a failed $4 thermostat in the middle of Missouri, in the middle of July, 4 hours from home is what did my head gasket (and transmission) in. I noticed the engine running hot just as I was nearing a gas stop- but I figured since it was 105 degrees and I was running 75 mph with the AC blasting, the engine might run a "little" warm and didn't think much of it. As I filled up with gas, a puddle of transmission fluid formed under my car. The fluid was boiling out of the transmission dipstick and onto the ground. Apparently the integrated transmission cooler in the radiator (like nearly every automatic car has) wasn't cooling the transmission enough with a failed coolant thermostat. I limped the car home (a 4 hour trip that took 10 with cool down stops) with the heat blasting- did I mention it was 105 degrees in the sticky mid-west? I had the transmission rebuilt (why- I don't know) and then replaced the thermostat. The head gasket and probably warped head didn't show up until about 9 or 10 months later.

[mrtube]

I had a friend that had an 86 olds cutlass with the olds 307 in it. He overheated it to the point it seized 3 times in a row. It still ran fine 8 years later. Donno weather it was due to it being cast iron and essentially an olds bigblock. Or if it was 100% luck. the all aluminum engines are definitely more sensitive to it, and the aluminum head iron block ones as well. Tho aluminum heads cool far better and allow higher compression under normal conditions.

[wallingclan]

Engine is fine. No problems with engine except that 1 3 5 are not firing correctly. Does not overheat, no warped heades etc.

[IMkenNY]

cam position sensor / wiring perhaps....they could get beat up by a flying belt

[wolfman]

Originally Posted by wallingclan

Engine is fine. No problems with engine except that 1 3 5 are not firing correctly. Does not overheat, no warped heades etc.

Hate to break it to you, but that statement is pretty much the exact opposite of "No problems with engine."

Unless you taken it apart, you've have no way of knowing whether the heads are warped or not, or whether you have cooked anything else. Not trying to be confrontational, but something does not sound right. That "about 1 mile" to the nearest shop is not long enough for it to get "hot real hot of course," unless you were in bumper to bumper traffic.

[bigapl]

Check cam timing I have seen belts parts get into timing cover and throw a cam off one or two teeth.....
Tech

[wallingclan]

here is the result of the problem:

When the Serp Belt went pieces of the belt went to the timing belt and threw off the timing on the gears. That is why the 1 3 5 were not firing correctly. Got a new timing belt and prayed that the engine valves were ok. Thank God, the valves were OK. New Timing Belt, car runs like brand new. Thanks for all your help. You were right about the Timing.

[far2grumpy]

Originally Posted by bigapl

Check cam timing I have seen belts parts get into timing cover and throw a cam off one or two teeth.....
Tech

bigapl ... Great catch on the belt debris!!!

Its obvious to me you know what you're talking about, so what can you tell us about three major Vue complaints? (1) noisy strut mounts, (2) AWD center carrier bearings, and (3) bad wheel bearings?

Do you know of any upgraded parts or other fixes to make those problems go away a little longer?

[Tom92SCm]

How did the broken belt get into the timing belt? The engines that I'm familiar with (and this 3.0L is not one of them), the accessory belt and the timing belt are separated by a plastic cover. I'm not saying that a broken belt couldn't break the timing belt cover, you just never mentioned it or replacing it.

[mrtube]

You know, I still want to know what the point in a timing BELT over a chain is. My chev 350 has 225K on it, with the original chain.

I originally thought maybe it was a Japanese thing. but my two Yamaha ATV's both use chains. one is a common yamaha 350cc. the other is a water cooled dry sump 5 valve 660cc. both run timing chains not belts.


Oh, And Honda ATV's also use chains.

is a belt setup simply cheaper to do?

[Chazberry]

Originally Posted by mrtube

You know, I still want to know what the point in a timing BELT over a chain is.

I actually thought the "chain" was a big selling point for the S Series. But belts are primarily used to make an engine quieter. I remember years ago when GM used chains with plastic sprockets to reduce noise - NOT one of their better ideas! Also, belts are no doubt cheaper than chains.

[mrtube]

Chaz : it wasnt that long ago. the 1960s until the late 1980s or even early 1990s on cars. They had nylon teeth.

[Chazberry]

Originally Posted by mrtube

Chaz : it wasnt that long ago. the 1960s until the late 1980s or even early 1990s on cars. They had nylon teeth.

It was probably in the late '60s when I opened up my first engine that had those nylon teeth laying down in the bottom. I didn't realize they kept at it that long!