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Old 11-09-2009, 08:07 PM   #41
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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I wish em luck. They already got my money whether I chose to give it to them or not. My opinion [and choice] is obviously immaterial to what GM does.

And Buick is as watered down a brand as any with it's Skyhawks, Centurys, Skylarks, that idiotic van clone,5000 lb crossover etc.

It still screams old folks car, unfortunately. Taking it down market with an Astra or a Cruze knock off is not going to help change that, nor help develop a "premium" image.

And Cadillac is still a joke. One competent model [CTS] doesn't re-make the whole brand. Taking Chevrolets and giving them the Cimarron treatment [hello Escalade, XLR and Avalanche clone] does not a luxury brand make either. Even the new crossover we've been seeing so many ads for looks like a rip of the VUE. And I doubt many yuppies are doing much cross shopping of Cadillac with Mercedes and BMW. Unfortunately.

But whatever. GM will keep on burning through the cash trying to make up lost volume with Buick and Cadillac while screwing the last brand equity out of each one and until the next belly up to Uncle Sugar's trough.

I don't need a car from GM but maybe they can send me the rebate anyway since they took my money already. Scum bags.
The Escalade is what saved Caddy and turned them around, the CTS just happened to be a decent car. The Escalade took them from being old people cars to being hip and cool urban luxury cars. Now every suburban wealthy family has or has had one. Whether or not you think that the Escalade & EXT are worthy luxury cars, the people who shell out $70k for them on a routine basis do. I personally don't think they're differentiated enough, but I also don't have $70k for a new Escalade so my opinion is about as good to Caddy as my $70k check for an Escalade. And I think the XLR is a very good product compared to the Corvette, they appeal to very different groups. The vette is for midlife crises guys to go try to look cool in, and the XLR is more of an old man's weekend cruiser (like the MB SL Class)

The Enclave has shown that people will buy an upscale, conservatively designed, slightly nicer than the competition vehicle from Buick, and they don't have to be in their 60s. The Enclave is a very popular vehicle with families around here because of its large interior space, good looks, good feature list, upscale nature, and relatively efficient nature. I think that the Antara would be a pretty good Buick if they'd give it a feature, interior, and exterior upgrade. Basically make it look like a smaller Enclave.

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Old 11-09-2009, 11:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

This is all bogus. It's all GM's fault Saturn is dead. I hope GM plummets into a deep, dark hole of bankruptcy and dies a painful, slow death. GM took away a car company that I have loved since I was 5 years old. Saturn is more than just a company to me, it is part of my childhood.

I will keep getting Saturns until there are no more left. After that, I am not going to get a GM car.

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Old 11-10-2009, 09:48 AM   #43
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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The Escalade is what saved Caddy and turned them around, the CTS just happened to be a decent car. The Escalade took them from being old people cars to being hip and cool urban luxury cars. Now every suburban wealthy family has or has had one. Whether or not you think that the Escalade & EXT are worthy luxury cars, the people who shell out $70k for them on a routine basis do. I personally don't think they're differentiated enough, but I also don't have $70k for a new Escalade so my opinion is about as good to Caddy as my $70k check for an Escalade. And I think the XLR is a very good product compared to the Corvette, they appeal to very different groups. The vette is for midlife crises guys to go try to look cool in, and the XLR is more of an old man's weekend cruiser (like the MB SL Class)

The Enclave has shown that people will buy an upscale, conservatively designed, slightly nicer than the competition vehicle from Buick, and they don't have to be in their 60s. The Enclave is a very popular vehicle with families around here because of its large interior space, good looks, good feature list, upscale nature, and relatively efficient nature. I think that the Antara would be a pretty good Buick if they'd give it a feature, interior, and exterior upgrade. Basically make it look like a smaller Enclave.
Well, as long as you've convinced yourself, that's fine. I can see your point but still do not "get" that idiotic Escalade. There are a lot of fools out there with more money than sense.Lots of people like to dress like gangstas with their stupid pants falling off their asses. That's a great image to embrace. More short term gains for Cadillac at the expense of long term credibility.

And it still doesn't make them any more than tarted up Chevies. Something that GM has claimed over and over again that they're not going to do any more. Then we get the minivans, the G3, and on and on it goes.

Now the public has to buy GM's claim that Buick is a cool "premium" brand and not an old man's .

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. Except for GM.

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Old 11-10-2009, 07:07 PM   #44
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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Well, as long as you've convinced yourself, that's fine. I can see your point but still do not "get" that idiotic Escalade. There are a lot of fools out there with more money than sense.Lots of people like to dress like gangstas with their stupid pants falling off their asses. That's a great image to embrace. More short term gains for Cadillac at the expense of long term credibility.
So are you saying that the Cadillac Escalade is embraced by people who dress like gangstas?


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Now the public has to buy GM's claim that Buick is a cool "premium" brand and not an old man's .
If GM keeps going the way it is with Buick, with the Regal and other new products, it will become far more poular with the public. The Enclave has brought many new people into the brand, and the new Lacrosse is a far cry from an old man looking car. If people like the products, they will look past the stereotypes and previous image of a brand

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Old 11-10-2009, 07:54 PM   #45
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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So are you saying that the Cadillac Escalade is embraced by people who dress like gangstas?
Ya think? I don't think this is the upscale image Cadillac is after...

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Old 11-11-2009, 08:55 AM   #46
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

Thank you Page2171. I wan't the one that described the Escalade as "urban cool". And yes, I can imply that fashion challenged dim bulbs like rappers and gangstas drive these stupid PsOS. Because it's true. They're the ones that made the things "cool". They're a [bad] fashion statement. Dumb is as dumb does. $70,000 for a frigging Chevrolet? Please.

Besides the SUV fad is dead: lack of cheap leases and being able to suck the equity out your house to buy junky flash is pretty impossible these days.

Buick can whore out it's brand lineage all it wants for volume rather than consistent profit. It will still be a decade before anyone thinks Buicks are "cool". If ever.

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Old 11-11-2009, 01:59 PM   #47
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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Buick can whore out it's brand lineage all it wants for volume rather than consistent profit. It will still be a decade before anyone thinks Buicks are "cool". If ever.
Talk about a Danzition... somehow we're thinking an Escalade has something to do with Buick... and I guess Buick has something to do with Saturn because it's continuing and Saturn is not (so let's all wish it dead, too!)... Yeah, how rational and productive we're being here.

And why all this focus on being "cool?" You know what's really "cool?" When someone doesn't give a rat's rear end what other people think of what they drive... as long as he or she likes it, that he or she is "cool" with it, is what really counts.

So maybe I think (though evidently, from what I read here, I'm not the only one) that the new Buicks coming out are game-changers. (I guess that reads to that I think they're "cool.")

According to what I quoted, I must be "nobody" because not "anyone" will ever be into those cars - and I like the new Buick product.... Yet, Schizo that I must be, I'm also a Saturn owner who happens to really like his Aura.

But wait... maybe I'm not "cool" because I'm not a "real" (or "traditional") Saturn owner?

Here's my point... I'm just pointing out how ridiculous all this label-crap is. I've actually been told - more than once - that I'm not a "legitimate" Saturn owner... which, no offense, I happen to find a little on the scary / fanatical side (on the parts of the people who told me). First, I don't care because I wouldn't be a part of some clique anyway, and second, when all is said and done, it is just a car.

If someone happens to like a certain car - Buick or "new" Saturn or "traditional" Saturn, so be it. And if you don't happen to like something, so what. I personally wouldn't have purchased any Saturn of previous-generations because they just weren't my taste. BUT- go figure! - instead of me yelling at the then-current Saturn owners about GM not making something to my taste, I directed my attention to other makes. Then LATER, newer Saturn models did attract my attention, and I bought one... Now it looks like I find new Buicks attractive, too. So sue me.

No one person gets to "write" the future of market receptions to cars. I get that people are sad, for many different reasons, that the Saturn make is being retired. But I don't get all the cat-fighting over what is REALLY about people not having the same taste in cars as others.

It would be a horribly boring world if we all adopted one taste and everyone drove the exact the same thing.

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Old 11-11-2009, 02:16 PM   #48
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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And it still doesn't make them any more than tarted up Chevies.
They are very nice "tarted up Chevies"

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Old 11-11-2009, 02:19 PM   #49
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Thank you Page2171. I wan't the one that described the Escalade as "urban cool". And yes, I can imply that fashion challenged dim bulbs like rappers and gangstas drive these stupid PsOS. Because it's true. They're the ones that made the things "cool". They're a [bad] fashion statement. Dumb is as dumb does. $70,000 for a frigging Chevrolet? Please.
You and 2171 sound just like a typical Buick owner. "Young whippersnappers and their boom boom music!" "Get off my lawn!"

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Old 11-11-2009, 02:36 PM   #50
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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But wait... maybe I'm not "cool" because I'm not a "real" (or "traditional") Saturn owner?

I've actually been told - more than once - that I'm not a "legitimate" Saturn owner... which, no offense, I happen to find a little on the scary / fanatical side (on the parts of the people who told me).
If someone happens to like a certain car - Buick or "new" Saturn or "traditional" Saturn, so be it. And if you don't happen to like something, so what. I personally wouldn't have purchased any Saturn of previous-generations because they just weren't my taste.
The people who said you weren't a "traditional" Saturn owner have a point. Saturn went from 1991-2007 selling a model that competed at the low end of the economic spectrum. They sold a compact SUV that was still at the low end from 2002-2007. In 2007 GM said "We're abandoning the low end and bringing Saturn (Oldsmobile) upscale." Sky, Aura, new VUE, Outlook, Astra,
none sold enough to matter. I'd guess that the number of cheap small Saturns outnumbers the new fancy ones by a factor of 20-1.
So you have to see where the "traditional" Saturn owners are coming from. To me and them, you own an Oldsmobile with a Saturn badge on it.
All this is important because branding is important. It helps to know what you're getting from a company before you actually see it.

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Old 11-11-2009, 03:31 PM   #51
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

You guys are completely missing the point of the Escalade. The point is that it's big, its relatively nice, and its expensive. When you drive a new Escalade, people know you have money. The fact that it's built off a capable truck doesn't really hurt either, but the fact is its a stylish vehicle that when you drive, other people know you have money. And people with the money to afford them keep buying them, so I'm pretty sure your opinion can be thrown out as its just a jealousy thing

If the SUV "craze" has ended, you wouldn't know it around here. Disregarding the poor(who drive beat up old junkers that are probably not road legal), I still see more people driving SUVs than all other types of cars combined. And it's still mostly larger SUVs, I don't think the smaller SUVs are really gaining any market share even around here. But then again, South Florida is like very few other places in the world.

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Old 11-11-2009, 03:41 PM   #52
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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You guys are completely missing the point of the Escalade. The point is that it's big, its relatively nice, and its expensive. When you drive a new Escalade, people know you have money. The fact that it's built off a capable truck doesn't really hurt either, but the fact is its a stylish vehicle that when you drive, other people know you have money. And people with the money to afford them keep buying them, so I'm pretty sure your opinion can be thrown out as its just a jealousy thing
I'd personally get an Escalade if I had money, and if it came in a diesel.

Failing that, GMC Yukon XL w/ the Denali add-ons and a diesel works too.

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Old 11-11-2009, 03:42 PM   #53
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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The people who said you weren't a "traditional" Saturn owner have a point. Saturn went from 1991-2007 selling a model that competed at the low end of the economic spectrum. They sold a compact SUV that was still at the low end from 2002-2007. In 2007 GM said "We're abandoning the low end and bringing Saturn (Oldsmobile) upscale." Sky, Aura, new VUE, Outlook, Astra,
none sold enough to matter. I'd guess that the number of cheap small Saturns outnumbers the new fancy ones by a factor of 20-1.
So you have to see where the "traditional" Saturn owners are coming from. To me and them, you own an Oldsmobile with a Saturn badge on it.
All this is important because branding is important. It helps to know what you're getting from a company before you actually see it.
They weren't using the term, "traditional." I figure that's probably because it didn't sound nasty enough to fit their disposition. That's why, honestly, I don't care what their point was. My immediate thought was "you're nuts; please stop focusing unhealthily on my car."

So my impression is that there are people out there who actually believe I, along with all the other Aura / Astra / Outlook / Sky / current-generation Vue owners, have comitted some sort of offense that we chose to buy and own these cars. That's not a healthy disposition, whatever your belief is regarding brand identity.

While you should have a good idea, one should never "know" what you're getting until you do see it. I wouldn't have walked into a Saturn dealer had I not started to get a different idea of what Saturn was about.

You're quite correct that Saturn essentially took the torch of Oldsmobile. Prior to Olds' demise, Saturn wasn't on-track to receive an Epsilon-based car - and Olds was, to succeed the Alero (and jointly the Intrigue, according to rumor). After Oldsmobile's retirement is announced, Epsilon moves to Saturn and becomes an Aura - which sounds like "Aurora" and has a tail-end with what appears to be a contemporary interpretation of previous Olds models. Heck, it's reasonably certain that the Outlook would have otherwise been the Bravada.

And here I am, a current Aura owner, who used to own an Olds Alero, Aurora, and currently owns a Bravada. I'm not an Olds loyalist or anything - I just liked those cars when I shopped them against others, just as I did with the Aura. So, yeah, you're right. Beyond that, I'm sure I shopped from a different perspective than previous-gen Saturn owners - but a perspective that is no less valid.

But what's done is done, and it is what it is. I used to own a Chrysler, and they changed in a direction that I didn't receive so well. I looked somewhere else.

I consider myself passionate about the car I own, but not to the point of where I'm condescending or judging other people's tastes - even if the make I own moves in a different direction, or outright EXTINGUISHES... a circumstance I have experience with twice-over.

I'll probably rebadge my Aura as an Opel. Maybe that'll make us all feel better...

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Old 11-11-2009, 03:55 PM   #54
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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You guys are completely missing the point of the Escalade. The point is that it's big, its relatively nice, and its expensive. When you drive a new Escalade, people know you have money. The fact that it's built off a capable truck doesn't really hurt either, but the fact is its a stylish vehicle that when you drive, other people know you have money.
Or to fool other people into "thinking" you have money... when what you really have is a situation where half your check goes to your car payment. I have a neighbor who owns a late-model Escalade and a year-old Lexus (among two other cars). We live on a very nice road, up a small hill...

Their house is dilapidating, and they have a problem with parking their vehicles on their driveway because it's not as close as their LAWN is to the front door (code violation in my city). Their money clearly goes to their wheels and how other people see them as they're out driving. What's at home is definitely not a priority; they definitely don't care about their home or neighborhood. They're just among those people who really care about what "class" their cars put them in (and how other people will perceive them), particularly when they're at work or out and about.

It's not anything I think is exclusive to Escalade or Lexus owners. I just don't necessarily equate "expensive car" with "well to do." Because I know it could also mean "pretentious person with bad priorities."

I guess this is one reason why I think the "cool" thing is over-rated.

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Old 11-11-2009, 08:36 PM   #55
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Thank you Page2171. I wan't the one that described the Escalade as "urban cool". And yes, I can imply that fashion challenged dim bulbs like rappers and gangstas drive these stupid PsOS. Because it's true. They're the ones that made the things "cool". They're a [bad] fashion statement. Dumb is as dumb does. $70,000 for a frigging Chevrolet? Please.
I don't see to many as you call gangstas driving around in Escalades, mostly it is middle aged people. If someone is well off and can afford their $70,000 vehicle, good for them. I'm not going to tell them what they drive is dumb becuase it is something they wanted. Kind of sounds like eveny or jealously to me

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You and 2171 sound just like a typical Buick owner. "Young whippersnappers and their boom boom music!" "Get off my lawn!"
That and the people who see an Escalade and say "Yeah, some ghetto gangsta probably drives that thing"

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Old 11-11-2009, 08:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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I don't see to many as you call gangstas driving around in Escalades, mostly it is middle aged people. If someone is well off and can afford their $70,000 vehicle, good for them. I'm not going to tell them what they drive is dumb becuase it is something they wanted. Kind of sounds like eveny or jealously to me


That and the people who see an Escalade and say "Yeah, some ghetto gangsta probably drives that thing"
Around me the only people that drive Cadillacs are wanna-be gangstas. I'm just calling it like I see it. Well off middle-aged people around me don't drive Cadillacs.

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Old 11-11-2009, 08:53 PM   #57
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Or to fool other people into "thinking" you have money... when what you really have is a situation where half your check goes to your car payment. I have a neighbor who owns a late-model Escalade and a year-old Lexus (among two other cars). We live on a very nice road, up a small hill...

Their house is dilapidating, and they have a problem with parking their vehicles on their driveway because it's not as close as their LAWN is to the front door (code violation in my city). Their money clearly goes to their wheels and how other people see them as they're out driving. What's at home is definitely not a priority; they definitely don't care about their home or neighborhood. They're just among those people who really care about what "class" their cars put them in (and how other people will perceive them), particularly when they're at work or out and about.

It's not anything I think is exclusive to Escalade or Lexus owners. I just don't necessarily equate "expensive car" with "well to do." Because I know it could also mean "pretentious person with bad priorities."

I guess this is one reason why I think the "cool" thing is over-rated.
Maybe they don't like the house? I often park in my lawn because it's easier than juggling cars around when either me or the gf has to leave. Maybe they look at that house as a temporary thing, or they care more about the interior of the house than the exterior? Maybe, when they bought the house they didn't have as much money, and now are doing better and looking into nicer houses? Have you ever asked them about it?

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Old 11-12-2009, 01:08 AM   #58
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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Maybe they don't like the house? I often park in my lawn because it's easier than juggling cars around when either me or the gf has to leave. Maybe they look at that house as a temporary thing, or they care more about the interior of the house than the exterior? Maybe, when they bought the house they didn't have as much money, and now are doing better and looking into nicer houses? Have you ever asked them about it?
Maybe you're asking a lot of questions that you incorrectly assume that I don't already know the answers to?

They own the house. It's not a temporary thing. They bought it several years ago from the original owner, who built it in the 1960's. They don't care about the interior. They haven't done anything to improve it. They're not looking into moving, and they're in no financial position to do so. As a matter of fact, they started renting out a room (illegally - they need a permit) because they needed more money. But yes, they still had bought a brand new Lexus and an Escalade. THAT was what was important to them.

Parking on the lawn may be alright in your area, and in other areas... For all I know, you could live on a sprawling meadow or something. But here, it's a code violation; it's considered trashy - and it's not the norm at all. (We even got a newsletter with our electric bill earlier this year, thats headline explicitly stated this ordinance.) By the way, not that this is an excuse either, but it's not about having to shuffle cars... they have a driveway three cars wide and two cars deep. It's just not right next to the front door. They're lazy, and they don't care... These neighbors just take advantage of the fact that we live on a secluded, culdesac drive that Code Enforcement officers won't normally drive by... and the luck that no one's called on them yet. It's just especially ironic that the cars doing it are rather expensive ones...

As a homeowner myself, I think I have a responsibility to take care of my house and be a good neighbor. What I do here and how I maintain things DOES have an effect on the quality of life of the neighborhood. I think most responsible homeowners will put their home's importance over what they drive. Okay... drifting off topic... back to cars.

I don't begrudge people's choices to buy upmarket vehicles. In my case, I could afford a more expensive car. But I tend to purchase my cars outright. To me, not having a car payment to think about each month is better than having the so-called status of an uber-expensive ride.

My mis-prioritized neighbors are definitely not a reflection on Escalade or Lexus owners. They're just an example of how driving an expensive vehicle doesn't necessarily mean you have an abundance of disposable income - or class. That's exactly my point.

...
Now: 07 Saturn Aura XR 3.6 Black / 04 Olds Bravada Final 500 Dark Cherry (both paid for!)
Then: 02 Olds Alero GLS / 01 Olds Aurora 3.5 / 95 Ford T-Bird LX-V8
In Fam: 05 Buick LaCrosse CXS

Last edited by WhenenRome; 11-12-2009 at 01:14 AM..

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Old 11-12-2009, 08:32 AM   #59
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Talk about a Danzition... somehow we're thinking an Escalade has something to do with Buick... and I guess Buick has something to do with Saturn because it's continuing and Saturn is not (so let's all wish it dead, too!)... Yeah, how rational and productive we're being here.

And why all this focus on being "cool?" You know what's really "cool?" When someone doesn't give a rat's rear end what other people think of what they drive... as long as he or she likes it, that he or she is "cool" with it, is what really counts.

So maybe I think (though evidently, from what I read here, I'm not the only one) that the new Buicks coming out are game-changers. (I guess that reads to that I think they're "cool.")

According to what I quoted, I must be "nobody" because not "anyone" will ever be into those cars - and I like the new Buick product.... Yet, Schizo that I must be, I'm also a Saturn owner who happens to really like his Aura.

But wait... maybe I'm not "cool" because I'm not a "real" (or "traditional") Saturn owner?

Here's my point... I'm just pointing out how ridiculous all this label-crap is. I've actually been told - more than once - that I'm not a "legitimate" Saturn owner... which, no offense, I happen to find a little on the scary / fanatical side (on the parts of the people who told me). First, I don't care because I wouldn't be a part of some clique anyway, and second, when all is said and done, it is just a car.

If someone happens to like a certain car - Buick or "new" Saturn or "traditional" Saturn, so be it. And if you don't happen to like something, so what. I personally wouldn't have purchased any Saturn of previous-generations because they just weren't my taste. BUT- go figure! - instead of me yelling at the then-current Saturn owners about GM not making something to my taste, I directed my attention to other makes. Then LATER, newer Saturn models did attract my attention, and I bought one... Now it looks like I find new Buicks attractive, too. So sue me.

No one person gets to "write" the future of market receptions to cars. I get that people are sad, for many different reasons, that the Saturn make is being retired. But I don't get all the cat-fighting over what is REALLY about people not having the same taste in cars as others.

It would be a horribly boring world if we all adopted one taste and everyone drove the exact the same thing.
That was absolutely unrelated to anything I said in this.Buicks still have an old man's image, but if you want to talk yourself into one, go ahead. I don't give a rip what you drive. I never said it mattered. It matters to GM what Buick's image is.

Where it matters is sales. So the one of two hundred sales Buick picks up won't even near cover what GM dumped with jerking Saturn and Pontiac out of the mix.

You missed the whole point anyway: GM's branding and marketing continues to be stupid. That Buick aspires to be the American Lexus or the next step up from Chevrolet is immaterial without buyers, your condescension not withstanding.

And again: I didn't bring up the "cool" nonsense, another member did. And if GM wants potential buyers of Buicks to be younger than 60 they need to change their frigging image. What part of this don't you understand ? That's a fact and not something I made up about Cadillac or Buick: Their clientele has been dying off. It's called "demographics" Market targeting, branding and image building is something GM sucks at doing and has been screwing it up with Buick for a couple of decades now. Like with Cadillac. And Pontiac. And Olds. And Saturn.

I am sure GM would be pleased to sell a 20 year old a Lucerne. Just don't expect his or her friends to think he or she bought an American "Lexus". That's the fantasy of someone in GM's publicity department. Too bad it doesn't happen in real life. That's GM's fault. Not mine because of an observation.

Go ahead: put your money where your mouth is and buy a Buick if you want. But you won't.

Last edited by Citation84; 11-12-2009 at 08:44 AM..

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Old 11-12-2009, 09:02 AM   #60
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

And BTW all: It doesn't change the fact that the Escalade is a whored out Chevrolet. Again: not exactly Cadillac material. Thinly disguised rebadged typical GM. A Chevrolet in a pimp suit.

Again: go ahead and spend $70,000 for a glorified Chevrolet. I don't waste my time being "jealous" of other people. People who run out of arguments suggest that crap. This is about GM's credibilty not what Wheninrome or anyone else "feels" about what people should do or not do with their money.

XLR made the comment about the urban cool garbage. The Escalade has been featured in rap videos where it got it's so called "street cred". And Florida is one of the retirement capitals of the world. Of course you're going to see old farts driving Escalades. Quite an anecdotal observation.

And you're still seeing what's left over from the SUV binge because that market has taken a huge dump and was trending downward as early as 2002. The roads are still full of them, Cash For Clunkers didbn't make a dent in what's still out there.

Page: I am seeing the same thing as you and CA is where automotive trends have originated for decades.A fact and not an "observation" of my limited surroundings.Whether that translates into repeat buyer sales for GM is another story.

Davidsky: get that POS off my lawn

Last edited by Citation84; 11-12-2009 at 09:10 AM..

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