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Old 11-05-2009, 12:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

I57 - That program went out the door with the restyled Vue/Vue Two Mode Hybrid several months ago. GM/Buick did focus groups of current Buick owners, who said the nexgen Saturn Aura and Vue were not "upscale enough". The new direction was a major redesign, back to the drawing board for both models. I believe the average age of a Buick owner is well over 60, and qualifies for Social Security and Medicare. It may not be your father's Oldsmobile, but it obviously is your grandfather's Buick. There is currently not a single vehicle in the Buick line (outside of the oversized and overpriced restyled 2010 Lacrosse) that I would consider buying. I will look at whatever Buick comes up with for a small SUV and mid-size car, but if it fits their current profile of stuffy, staid, opted out overprice vehicles - I will stick with Ford and possibly Chevrolet. I really like the new 2010 Equinox, but am not too fond of the boxy Malibu styling. It is really too bad GM does not run the Saturn models through the 2010 model year rather than shutting down production now. I believe that would have provided better profits for them and transitioned Saturn owners in a more equitible fashion. They must have a lot of left-over parts from shutting down assembly, but many Saturn parts interchange with other GM models. If you take a really close look at a Malibu vs an Aura (which I did, parked side by side), you would be amazed at the number of common parts on both the interior and exterior. Under the chassis, they are basically identical.

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Old 11-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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Sure your not worried about it at all. If you screw up you can always take a early retirement and laugh at all the hard working stiffs at the facility level
That's the way of the world. That's why we encourage our children to do well in school and get a good education, so they're not the lowest man on the totem pole. Because the lowest man on the totem pole gets to deal with all the BS.

The Buick Enclave is nice, very nice in fact. Buick's also got some decent product in the pipeline. Just remember, if you think something is overpriced, in most cases theres someone with more money than you who thinks its a bargain.

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Old 11-05-2009, 04:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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I57 - That program went out the door with the restyled Vue/Vue Two Mode Hybrid several months ago. GM/Buick did focus groups of current Buick owners, who said the nexgen Saturn Aura and Vue were not "upscale enough". The new direction was a major redesign, back to the drawing board for both models. ..
You're correct about the Vue, but I believe you are amalgamating the Vue story with the Aura. I57 is absolutely right. The next-gen Aura was to be a near-double of the current Opel Insignia. The soon-to-come Buick Regal is just that. No major redesign, though the care will be fitted with Buick cues (much like the China Regal).

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Old 11-05-2009, 04:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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I believe the average age of a Buick owner is well over 60, and qualifies for Social Security and Medicare.
A lot of people seem to think this is a problem. There are more people over the age of 60 then under so catering to seniors isn't a bad idea. The problem for GM and Buick is that these same seniors are buying Toyotas and Hyundais.

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Old 11-05-2009, 04:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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There is currently not a single vehicle in the Buick line (outside of the oversized and overpriced restyled 2010 Lacrosse) that I would consider buying. I will look at whatever Buick comes up with for a small SUV and mid-size car, but if it fits their current profile of stuffy, staid, opted out overprice vehicles - I will stick with Ford and possibly Chevrolet.
Kind of a pointless statement, you would never have been or will be a Buick customer. Buicks have always been opted out and a bit luxurious. Even the Skylark GSX and Regal GNX that enthusiast muscle car geeks went gaga for were optioned up with things like AC, power windows and locks and plush velour seats. If you want a cheap car, don't buy a Buick, that's what Chevrolet is for.
One persons "stuffy" or "staid" is another's "elegant" or "classy"

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Old 11-05-2009, 06:22 PM   #26
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They must have a lot of left-over parts from shutting down assembly, but many Saturn parts interchange with other GM models.
I beg to differ. Know of any other G.M. vehicle where parts will interchange from the S-series*, the only car they never made ripoffs of?

Yeah, didn't think so.

*excludes disposables, like oil, fluids, filters, windshield wipers, batteries, spark plugs, etc.

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Old 11-06-2009, 06:08 AM   #27
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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I beg to differ. Know of any other G.M. vehicle where parts will interchange from the S-series*, the only car they never made ripoffs of?

Yeah, didn't think so.

*excludes disposables, like oil, fluids, filters, windshield wipers, batteries, spark plugs, etc.
I don't think he was referring to the S Series, but what came after it and the current line up. It's been almost eight years since the last S came down the line.

They have "shut down assembly" on the Aura and VUE and Outlook. The parts used in those are also used in other GM products.

Even Astra parts are interchangeable with south of the border Chevy Astras.

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Old 11-06-2009, 10:43 AM   #28
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

WhenenRome - I stick by my comments. Have you ever seen real photos of the nexgen Aura? (not photo-shopped versions of the nexgen mid-size Buick) I did not think so. It never existed. The test cars that GM demo'd to the focus group were rebadged, lightly reworked versions of the current Aura and Vue (different grill with Buick logo, etc). GM was going to "plug them in" to the Buick line quickly and low-cost to plug the small-SUV and mid-size holes in their line until the fully-redesigned replacement Buick models arrive in 2011-12, and to potentially lure Pontiac and Saturn owners to Buick. We all know that the new Buick (Century-Regal mid-size line replacement) is based on Opel Insignia design cues. The nexgen Aura was never designed or any demo units ever built.

davidsky - And your issue is what? I am commenting on the FACT that the typical Saturn owner would not get caught dead in a Buick unless they change the customer profile. The typical Saturn owner is NOT over 60 and does NOT live in the local senior community drawing Social Security and Medicare. The Buick is currently designed for a much older, more affluent crowd than the Pontiac or Saturn was. If GM wishes to convert Saturn owners to Buick, they had better start doing a much better job of designing and contenting the type of cars that would attract the current Saturn (and their potential future Buick) customer - and stop designing products based on focus groups from their current aging geriatric Buick customer base. It is simple Marketing 101, and GM does NOT GET IT.

And yes, I have owned two Buicks in the distant past - a Century (a rebadged Chevrolet Celebrity) and a Skyhawk (a rebadged Chevrolet Citation). And as I stated, I really like the styling on the 2010 Lacrosse. However, even the base model is over stuffed with options I do not want and the car is overpriced at $27K base. It is also a larger car than I want. If the new mid-size Buick follows this profile, it will not be a car that will be very attractive for me (I believe a typical Saturn owner) to consider. I look at style AND value. Buick is missing the value component.

adventureoflink - What are you talking about? I am commenting on shutting down the current line of Saturn products. Most current model part are interchangeable with other current GM products. I believe I gave and example of the Aura vs Malibu, Outlook vs Acadia, etc. I wish you S-series fanatics would stop living in the far distant past. Get over it.

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Old 11-06-2009, 02:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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And as I stated, I really like the styling on the 2010 Lacrosse. However, even the base model is over stuffed with options I do not want and the car is overpriced at $27K base. It is also a larger car than I want. If the new mid-size Buick follows this profile, it will not be a car that will be very attractive for me (I believe a typical Saturn owner) to consider. I look at style AND value. Buick is missing the value component.
I don't think Buick is missing anything of the sort.

The 2010 Lacrosse is a great value! Considering that its competitive with cars that are almost $10,000 higher in price, I'd call that a hell of a value indeed.

There's a difference between being overpriced, and being higher priced than you, personally, can afford.

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Old 11-07-2009, 03:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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WhenenRome - I stick by my comments. Have you ever seen real photos of the nexgen Aura? (not photo-shopped versions of the nexgen mid-size Buick) I did not think so. It never existed. The test cars that GM demo'd to the focus group were rebadged, lightly reworked versions of the current Aura and Vue (different grill with Buick logo, etc). GM was going to "plug them in" to the Buick line quickly and low-cost to plug the small-SUV and mid-size holes in their line until the fully-redesigned replacement Buick models arrive in 2011-12, and to potentially lure Pontiac and Saturn owners to Buick. We all know that the new Buick (Century-Regal mid-size line replacement) is based on Opel Insignia design cues. The nexgen Aura was never designed or any demo units ever built.

davidsky - And your issue is what? I am commenting on the FACT that the typical Saturn owner would not get caught dead in a Buick unless they change the customer profile. The typical Saturn owner is NOT over 60 and does NOT live in the local senior community drawing Social Security and Medicare. The Buick is currently designed for a much older, more affluent crowd than the Pontiac or Saturn was. If GM wishes to convert Saturn owners to Buick, they had better start doing a much better job of designing and contenting the type of cars that would attract the current Saturn (and their potential future Buick) customer - and stop designing products based on focus groups from their current aging geriatric Buick customer base. It is simple Marketing 101, and GM does NOT GET IT.

And yes, I have owned two Buicks in the distant past - a Century (a rebadged Chevrolet Celebrity) and a Skyhawk (a rebadged Chevrolet Citation). And as I stated, I really like the styling on the 2010 Lacrosse. However, even the base model is over stuffed with options I do not want and the car is overpriced at $27K base. It is also a larger car than I want. If the new mid-size Buick follows this profile, it will not be a car that will be very attractive for me (I believe a typical Saturn owner) to consider. I look at style AND value. Buick is missing the value component..
Okay, Buick isn't going to make you happy because they don't seem to be taking your advice for their line-up. So, alrighty then, look for something else!

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? I mean, you're actually going in circles. Let me recap this for you: You asserted that GM should make an Aura rebadge for Buick. Another poster chimed in CORRECTLY that what was ANNOUNCED to be (over a year ago) the basis for the next-gen Aura, the Opel Insignia, is now the basis for the coming Buick Regal.

Now... let me ask you. Was there something incorrect about that? Because it all seems pretty accurate to me. Yet you seemed to want to contradict that with some story about a focus group that sounds pretty "inside" and not public or common knowledge.

It doesn't change the fact that the coming Regal is based on the Opel Insignia, which was to be (per well-publicized announcement) the basis for the next-gen Aura. Do you wish to contradict that again? You could always make a smarty-pants comment, like maybe ask me to produce the prototype you seem to suggest that I spoke of... even though I never remotely said anything like that, since me and everyone else on earth knows it never got that far. (GM pulled the plug on it, because, oh, I don't know... maybe they had doubts about their future with Saturn.)

And wow, I must be doubling in age. Because the Buicks of present and future do look attractive to me. According to you, I'll have to turn 60 and acquire medicare, and - from the way you make it sound - basically lose control of my bodily functions in order to be compatible with those cars.

Yes, they are more expensive. They would be a step up in the price point category for a Saturn owner - and just A step... because it wasn't like Saturn was charging chump change for its most recent models.

However I may take that step. (Not saying for certain... I keep my options open, but I'm not limited from doing so.) You're complaining about Buicks having too many standard features... Yikes! Do you know what one of the biggest criticisms of Buick is across the board? Producing bare-boned fleet friendly models that erode at the make's identity, causing buyers to take Buick less seriously as a premium line of cars.

I GET - whether we're pissed at GM or not - that no car maker can please EVERYONE. Maybe you don't... I just happen to think, regardless of how I feel about Saturn's retirement, that GM is heading in the right direction with regards to Buick.

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Old 11-07-2009, 01:52 PM   #31
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davidsky - And your issue is what? I am commenting on the FACT that the typical Saturn owner would not get caught dead in a Buick unless they change the customer profile. The typical Saturn owner is NOT over 60 and does NOT live in the local senior community drawing Social Security and Medicare. The Buick is currently designed for a much older, more affluent crowd than the Pontiac or Saturn was. If GM wishes to convert Saturn owners to Buick, they had better start doing a much better job of designing and contenting the type of cars that would attract the current Saturn (and their potential future Buick) customer - and stop designing products based on focus groups from their current aging geriatric Buick customer base. It is simple Marketing 101, and GM does NOT GET IT.
GM doesn't expect the "traditional" Saturn or Pontiac buyer to buy a Buick. They expect them to buy a Chevrolet. The "new" Saturn buyer who owns an Aura, new VUE or Outlook they do expect to look at Buicks or maybe Cadillac.
Like I said before, there are more "traditional Buick buyers" than there are "traditional Saturn buyers" so why cater to a group that is tiny at best?
I say old man car away, I'd love a car that's big with a plush ride and is "opted out"

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Old 11-09-2009, 06:00 AM   #32
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GM doesn't expect the "traditional" Saturn or Pontiac buyer to buy a Buick. They expect them to buy a Chevrolet. The "new" Saturn buyer who owns an Aura, new VUE or Outlook they do expect to look at Buicks or maybe Cadillac.
Like I said before, there are more "traditional Buick buyers" than there are "traditional Saturn buyers" so why cater to a group that is tiny at best?
I say old man car away, I'd love a car that's big with a plush ride and is "opted out"
That's the sort of car people rewarded themselves with after decades of hard work. Now everyone expects everything to be included even in a Kia Rio.

To me less is more. Having a choice is better than having it all when I don't need it and there are brands that still offer that. It's certainly no crime for Buick to come down the line loaded. It's part of their alleged "premium" status.

The "traditional" Saturn buyer was not embracing it's move "upscale" anyway. You are so right about GM expecting them to look at Chevrolet.

Buick still has an old people's image. GM will have to work on that. They can't take the chance of their customer base dying off. But remember: GM tried to rebuild Olds with great product and a new "image". And Saturn. We all know how well that turned out.

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Old 11-09-2009, 06:58 AM   #33
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... I am commenting on the FACT that the typical Saturn owner would not get caught dead in a Buick unless they change the customer profile. The typical Saturn owner is NOT over 60 and does NOT live in the local senior community drawing Social Security and Medicare. ...
So, in your world, anybody over 60 should either drive a Buick or be set adrift on a raft in the ocean?

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Old 11-09-2009, 10:42 AM   #34
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So, in your world, anybody over 60 should either drive a Buick or be set adrift on a raft in the ocean?
When the > 60 people are driving their white Buicks in the left lane well under the speed limit I sometimes wish they were set adrift in the ocean.

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Old 11-09-2009, 01:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

I think Buick did pretty well in the 80s with the Grand Nationals and the GNX

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Old 11-09-2009, 01:58 PM   #36
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I think Buick did pretty well in the 80s with the Grand Nationals and the GNX
They didn't sell that many of them. Enthusiasts overplay the effect of the Turbo Regals and GNs on sales and Buick in general. I'd guess that there were less GN/GNX/T-Types sold in total than Toyota sells Corollas in one month.

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Old 11-09-2009, 02:09 PM   #37
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Oh probably. I'm just saying i liked the product.

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Old 11-09-2009, 02:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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That's the sort of car people rewarded themselves with after decades of hard work. Now everyone expects everything to be included even in a Kia Rio.

To me less is more. Having a choice is better than having it all when I don't need it and there are brands that still offer that. It's certainly no crime for Buick to come down the line loaded. It's part of their alleged "premium" status.

The "traditional" Saturn buyer was not embracing it's move "upscale" anyway. You are so right about GM expecting them to look at Chevrolet.

Buick still has an old people's image. GM will have to work on that. They can't take the chance of their customer base dying off. But remember: GM tried to rebuild Olds with great product and a new "image". And Saturn. We all know how well that turned out.
GM pulled it off with Caddy. I mean, up until about 2003, Caddy was THE old people brand. Everyone had that wealthy grandparent who drove a big Caddy, or knew someone who did.

Reinventing a luxury brand is easier than reinventing an economy brand. Buick has always been upscale, so by making their vehicles and designs contemporary, they should have no problem.

What I expect to see is Buick will pick up a lot of the more low key people who want luxury vehicles, with safer, less aggressive styling. Caddy will go after the yuppies who would buy a BMW or Mercedes.

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Old 11-09-2009, 05:28 PM   #39
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GM pulled it off with Caddy. I mean, up until about 2003, Caddy was THE old people brand. Everyone had that wealthy grandparent who drove a big Caddy, or knew someone who did.

Reinventing a luxury brand is easier than reinventing an economy brand. Buick has always been upscale, so by making their vehicles and designs contemporary, they should have no problem.

What I expect to see is Buick will pick up a lot of the more low key people who want luxury vehicles, with safer, less aggressive styling. Caddy will go after the yuppies who would buy a BMW or Mercedes.
I wish em luck. They already got my money whether I chose to give it to them or not. My opinion [and choice] is obviously immaterial to what GM does.

And Buick is as watered down a brand as any with it's Skyhawks, Centurys, Skylarks, that idiotic van clone,5000 lb crossover etc.

It still screams old folks car, unfortunately. Taking it down market with an Astra or a Cruze knock off is not going to help change that, nor help develop a "premium" image.

And Cadillac is still a joke. One competent model [CTS] doesn't re-make the whole brand. Taking Chevrolets and giving them the Cimarron treatment [hello Escalade, XLR and Avalanche clone] does not a luxury brand make either. Even the new crossover we've been seeing so many ads for looks like a rip of the VUE. And I doubt many yuppies are doing much cross shopping of Cadillac with Mercedes and BMW. Unfortunately.

But whatever. GM will keep on burning through the cash trying to make up lost volume with Buick and Cadillac while screwing the last brand equity out of each one and until the next belly up to Uncle Sugar's trough.

I don't need a car from GM but maybe they can send me the rebate anyway since they took my money already. Scum bags.

Last edited by Citation84; 11-09-2009 at 05:42 PM..

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Old 11-09-2009, 08:06 PM   #40
05SaturnRL
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Default Re: GM Readies New Ads, Deep Discounts to Clear Remaining Saturn Inventory

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Originally Posted by davidsky View Post
They didn't sell that many of them. Enthusiasts overplay the effect of the Turbo Regals and GNs on sales and Buick in general. I'd guess that there were less GN/GNX/T-Types sold in total than Toyota sells Corollas in one month.
They didn't sell that many becuase there was not many of them produced, maybe 2000 each year. You will see more 87 GNs than any other year though, since Buick pumped many of those out

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