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Old 12-08-2009, 09:45 AM   #1
Emanuel
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Default Rethink GM

I am certainly angry at GM's management not only for dumping Saturn, but also for ruining the company and hurting employees, dealers, investors and bond holders.

Regarding Saturn, I can't believe that it took Renault up to the last minute to figure out that their return on supplying cars to Saturn would be insufficient. It seems much more likely to me that GM quashed the deal since they did not want Penske to make them look incompetent (like he did with Detroit Diesel). These are the reasons I voted that I would not buy another GM car in the Saturn Fan's poll.

I have a new Aura and it is excellent. That got me thinking that GM makes some pretty good cars and that they offer excellent value relative to the competition in both initial cost and in operating expenses. The new GM board is replacing the top management with new blood, and Whittacre hired an auto industry critic as an advisor. The papers today say that GM has $43B cash and will increase spending on new product development.

So, I'm concluding that it is time to rethink GM. I might even start using my GM card again to save up for my next car.

What do you think?

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Old 12-08-2009, 09:59 AM   #2
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Default Re: Rethink GM

I have close to 2K available on my GM card towards a new vehicle. I'm still not sure if I will ever use it though.

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Old 12-08-2009, 12:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Rethink GM

43 billion in taxpayer $$$$, 43 billion reasons to say forget you GM.

I will not willingly give this sink whole of a company another dime. This company went into bankruptcy for a reason and we all still have to pay for them to continue business as usual? And when they burn through that 43 billion don't think they won't slink back to the public trough for another taste of taxpayer sugar water. FUG EM

It's one thing to choose to buy their cars and support the company. It is quite another to conscript the taxpayer into paying to sustain this stupidly mismanaged company.

None of us did this to these fools, yet we all have to pay for their ineptitude and stupidity. Yeah, I'll buy one of their frigging cars all right.

In short, I re-thought GM and the answer is no. New GM same as the old GM except the buyer of a GM car gets to pay twice. Spread that taxpayer cash around and call it a "rebate".Still money on the hood on everything and nary a car sold with a profit in sight.

I have been accused of having blind hatred for GM: hardly. I have owned enough of their product to have made an informed decision, read and studied the story for 40 years and seen the decline happen, watched what GM did with Saturn and Saab [which in a nutshell provides a perfect example of their useless management]. I have had my eyes opened by plenty of exposure to this toxic dump of a corporation. And they can go straight to hell before I give them another dime under my own volition.

Last edited by Citation84; 12-08-2009 at 12:19 PM..

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Old 12-09-2009, 08:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Rethink GM

Congrats to the 'new' GM, but they're far from being out of the woods. They can at least see daylight with the Camaro, new Buicks and a clearer focus on fewer brands with minimal overlap. The competition isn't going to stand still. And it's not just Toyota or Honda, the usual suspects, who the new GM has to fear in a tougher marketplace moving forward.

Hyundai has been making great strides. The next Sonata may look like a molten bar of soap, but has class leading power and fuel economy. Once the Focus is replaced by the global model next fall, the car side of the Blue Oval's lineup will look impressive.

Until proven otherwise, there are still options in the marketplace. I owe GM nothing other than the tax dollars used to bail them out of financial hot water, only to file for bankruptcy anyway. They need to shock me, and if the Insignia Sports Tourer makes it here as a Regal wagon, I might have a driveway companion for the Nissan, which I've now had for two years.


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'11 & '15 Subaru Forester; '15 Nissan Altima

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Old 12-09-2009, 10:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Rethink GM

I don't consider a loan "my money". $43B they have is our money not GM's.
Let's see to be exact, out of those $43 billion, about $150 belongs to each one of us. When am I getting it back?
all I know is if I owe somebody a buck, they sleep on my porch until I give it back...

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Old 12-10-2009, 08:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Rethink GM

Quote:
Originally Posted by plato View Post
I don't consider a loan "my money". $43B they have is our money not GM's.
Let's see to be exact, out of those $43 billion, about $150 belongs to each one of us. When am I getting it back?
all I know is if I owe somebody a buck, they sleep on my porch until I give it back...
Agree. But essentially it is all "our money". $150 per person for one thing, 150 for another 50 here 50 there, pretty soon between Federal, State, Sales and Property taxes as well as only a few cents here and there on your cable, phone,water and electric bills, you're talking about 50% of an individual's income sucked up in junk fees, bonded indebtedness and taxes. And everything is sold to us with "it's only $1.00 a day for this good deed, or this public 'necessity'".

It's our money, yours and mine, all of it and we are far better able to put 150.00 to EFFECTIVE use than flushing it down the GM toilet.

To quote serial killer Aileen Wouronos: "It's not I owe you it's you owe me." But these arrogant jacka**es that run GM want to hide behind the old "perception gap" lie and blame it on use stupid consumers who don't know any better. Perception gap is built right in at GM, now courtesy of the US taxpayer.

GM is dead to me as far as any other purchase from them goes.

GM still sells too many cars that need the customer to finish it's work for them. Yeah, I know all of them do that but GM has and continues to be the worst offender. After Chrysler.
Wish I could believe it's a "loan". But loans are funny things. They're defined as being something to be paid back. GM is a total welfare deadbeat: that money is gone, never to be returned.

Last edited by Citation84; 12-10-2009 at 08:41 AM..

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Old 12-12-2009, 08:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: Rethink GM

When its time for our next car (which hopefully won't be for a while) I'll rethink all of the brands...not just GM. I'll still buy a car that fits our needs in terms of price and design. I've owned a lot of GM cars not because of blind loyalty but because they have served me well and fit our needs. I also owned a Honda for a while and it served me well too.

Did poor management make a mess out of GM, once the most envied company in the world? Absolutely! But if I ruled out companies just because the Government pumped $ into them in one way or another, there are a lot of products I would have to stop buying, not just GM cars.

To me, GM will get the same chance for my business that they had before - and if their lineup can't fill the need at a price that I can afford I'll look elsewhere. "May the best car win" is a cute slogan but it is also a double edged sword because if theirs isn't the best, they lose...

Just my .02

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Old 12-12-2009, 11:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: Rethink GM

Quote:
Originally Posted by john95SW2 View Post
When its time for our next car (which hopefully won't be for a while) I'll rethink all of the brands...not just GM. I'll still buy a car that fits our needs in terms of price and design. I've owned a lot of GM cars not because of blind loyalty but because they have served me well and fit our needs. I also owned a Honda for a while and it served me well too.

Did poor management make a mess out of GM, once the most envied company in the world? Absolutely! But if I ruled out companies just because the Government pumped $ into them in one way or another, there are a lot of products I would have to stop buying, not just GM cars.

To me, GM will get the same chance for my business that they had before - and if their lineup can't fill the need at a price that I can afford I'll look elsewhere. "May the best car win" is a cute slogan but it is also a double edged sword because if theirs isn't the best, they lose...

Just my .02
Very well stated.

I'm taking a similar approach and also agree that the 'best car' argument can work against them. It's a bold gamble to say the least.

At the same time I can understand why some posters in the forum would steadfastly refuse to reward GM by acquiring one of their post-BK "Core Four" products when their loyalty (through purchase and ownership of a Saturn vehicle) has been betrayed through a chain of unfortunate events.

Loyalty is a two way street, IMO, and if that is Citation84's point, then that should be how he justifies not looking at GM when it comes time for his next vehicle - not that GM is on the government dole courtesy of TARP funding. (which in and of itself is not a good long-term idea or investment.)


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'11 & '15 Subaru Forester; '15 Nissan Altima

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