SaturnFest 2009 Postponed

[Charlie]

A new story entry has been added:

[drupal=3422]SaturnFest 2009 Postponed[/drupal]

Today was supposed to be the first day of SaturnFans.com's week-long SaturnFest celebration. Just like in the past, it was going to be a happy time, with this year's virtual gathering of owners from around the world (I've received e-mails from as far away as Taiwan) cheering Roger Penske's acquistion of Saturn. But, alas, with GM's decision to suddenly begin the process of shutdowning the brand at the end of September, preparation for the online festival screeched to a halt as news of the impending closure dominated this site's front page.

[Jaseball]

Yeah, I think this is a good idea. If the Penske thing went through Saturn had a chance and it would be worth celebrating.

As it stands it would be like a wake/funeral instead of good times and we should just let the dust settle, let the company go down in peace, and later on celebrate what Saturn started as, what they accomplished, and celebrate the cars still on the road.

[lesswealthyguy]

The following essay is a matter of my personal opinion - an opinion which I have every reason to believe is true given what I have read, witnessed and experienced over the last several years as an American Consumer. Should some part of this essay be proven to be incorrect, untrue or inaccurate I invite others to RESPECTFULLY reply for the sake of my edification. I have to wonder what the Federal Government would think of my opinion considering how much of my wealth they spent "saving" the American Automotive Industry.

Saturn sold over 4,000,000 cars (that's four million cars) in the last twnenty years 80% of which are still on the road. That's 3,200,000 (three million two hundred thousand) Saturn vehicles still on the road. In other words, the brand has been and still is essentially a success. The Saturn brand is widely respected; however, GM has decided to "phase out" the brand.

As a Saturn owner GM's decision to phase out Saturn represents a horrible reality for me. I still owe many thousnads of dollars on a Saturn vehicle who's value was cut in half the second GM announced its decision. I can't walk into any dealership now and trade in my vehicle or sell it privately for even half of what it was worth a few days ago. In other words, I lost tremendous wealth at the hands of GM's remaking of itself. But let's not forget the profoundly negative ripple effect the loss of thousands of jobs (which is a human tragedy) at Saturn will cause throughout the American economy.

What is paramount here is that GM's decision to shut down the brand is another slap in the face of the American Consumer and General Public WHO ARE STILL reeling from the loss of wealth the financial and realestate sector handed them in the past year through their wanton ineptitude. GM's decision is another example of that same inept Corporate America making decisions to create a "better world" at the expense every American. That is, every American who knows what is theirs. A slap in the face of every American who expected the legacy their parents and ancestors left behind through their hard work and sacrifice would be sacred and protected - especially by a corporation like GM. That legacy being their wealth and social stability.

And yes, by "better world" I am speaking of the "new world economic order". My opinion is firmly that GM's decision was heavily influenced by a desire to keep in line with the philosophy surrounding the "new world economic order" and NOT by any sound corporate financial thinking that benefits the United States of America.

I therefore challenge every Saturn owner to find a way to initiate a class action law suit against GM for this ridiculous and wanton display of management neglect and arrogance. The loss of wealth is too great in this case. GM must compensate all Saturn owners for our loss of wealth at the hands of their selfish decision making.

[Jaseball]

Not sure why you decided to post in the SaturnFest postponement thread. I think a new thread would have worked out better.

There is no basis for suing GM over their decision to kill Saturn as a brand. Very few informed people would buy Saturn expecting to hold any resale value, even before GM ditched Saturn.

If you like a new car every few years, leasing or buying a brand that hold's re-sale value is the way to go. I bought my Saturn fully intending to take care of it and drive it into the ground, so I knew going in that re-sale value was not going to be a concern.

America is very different now. You have greedy, incompetent, immoral people who run the company into the ground with the intent of making a quick buck, cashing out fast, and then leaving someone else to clean up the mess they made.

Bernie Madoff is the poster boy of this new reality of America. Someone willing to ruin the lives and squander the savings of so many people and families to live a posh life filled with materialistic excess and somehow never gets caught until they are senior citizens.

How many times have you heard talking heads say that they need to pay these large amounts of cash for the 'best and the brightest,' which are the same people who got us into this mess?

Then you have a government that sells 'bailout,' plans to the tune of 750 billion dollars, but how many unemployed folks, upside down homeowners, etc., have been really helped vs., the obvious propping up of crap corporations like GM, BofA, AIG, Citigroup, etc?

Sorry for the tangent. I guess my point is that the problem is far larger than GM getting rid of Saturn and the loss of re-sale value on your car. Our entire culture and way of life is changing before our eyes.

If the natural course of action had taken place GM would be bankrupt far faster and they would still get rid of Saturn and some other brands and we'd still be in the same boat.

[Rj.ION]

First the Photo Contest goes down the tubes
Then Saturn goes down the tubes
Now Saturn Fest goes down the tubes


No reason to announce something when no plans are made to carry them out.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rj.ION

First the Photo Contest goes down the tubes
Then Saturn goes down the tubes
Now Saturn Fest goes down the tubes


No reason to announce something when no plans are made to carry them out.

Ouch. The Photo Contest will be part of SaturnFest.

Running this site takes a lot of time and sometimes things get away from me... I do my best...

Charlie

[lesswealthyguy]

Jaseball - When I have to walk into a dealer and expect half of the value of my car at a trade in - after the GM announcement to phase out Saturn - I call that a loss of wealth. The same loss of wealth that occurred in the financial and realestate sectors. When the reality of the matter is that corporate incompetence caused my loss of wealth I call that a basis for a law suit.

Eventually a home will deteriorate and be worthless same as a car but just slower. I don't accept your reasoning in that regard but respect many of your other thoughts.

[SL2CAM]

Originally Posted by lesswealthyguy

Jaseball - When I have to walk into a dealer and expect half of the value of my car at a trade in - after the GM announcement to phase out Saturn - I call that a loss of wealth. The same loss of wealth that occurred in the financial and realestate sectors. When the reality of the matter is that corporate incompetence caused my loss of wealth I call that a basis for a law suit.

Eventually a home will deteriorate and be worthless same as a car but just slower. I don't accept your reasoning in that regard but respect many of your other thoughts.

Ummmm does this have something to do with SaturnFest 2009?

[brucewayne]

I visited the site today hoping to see some 'happy' news with the SaturnFest. I realize that with the state of things right now, it may seem like a bad time to 'have a party', but on the other hand, this kind of seems like the prefect time to have a party and celebrate what we love about our cars and the company that made them.

As a Canadian, I knew the 'party' was over for me just days after I bought my new Vue Hybrid & Astra XE back in August. I still hoped the company would continue in the US, so I could at least watch the company move forward... even if from afar.

Anyone interested in seeing 'what might have been', check out gminsidenews.com/naias/revitalization/saturnria/index.shtml (sorry, I was not able to post the actual url - just copy and paste this) where you can see the 2010 & 2011 line up of cars planed for Saturns future ;-)

Ronn Roxx, Vancouver, BC, CANADA

[Jaseball]

Well, as far as Saturn fest we really should help Charlie out and we really shouldn't give him any grief.

It's easy to sit here and complain about GM or sit back and watch to see if his Saturn fest idea would work, but he's one guy who does this as a labor of love who spends limited free time fixing broken DB's, adding news, etc.

He also doesn't have a single mod or other free help, unlike other sites that are just a BBS with 10+ mods.

When he is ready for Saturnfest we should spend some time helping if possible. Either chip in some cash, submit photos/videos, write something about a memorable experience you had/trip you took with your Saturn, and help him create content.

Heck, I bought several items from the defunct Saturn branded stuff and would be happy to chip in something as a prize for a contest he holds or something along that line.

I also have some nice photos of my Saturns and several great memories I'd be willing to share.

[ToledoEngineer]

Originally Posted by lesswealthyguy

Jaseball - When I have to walk into a dealer and expect half of the value of my car at a trade in - after the GM announcement to phase out Saturn - I call that a loss of wealth. The same loss of wealth that occurred in the financial and realestate sectors. When the reality of the matter is that corporate incompetence caused my loss of wealth I call that a basis for a law suit.

Eventually a home will deteriorate and be worthless same as a car but just slower. I don't accept your reasoning in that regard but respect many of your other thoughts.

Unless you're selling your vehicle the minute you pay it off (5yrs or less), I would never expect to get half of the vehicle's original worth. And realistically, even at that point I probably wouldn't. Now maybe you're talking blue book value. Well, this is where market factors come into play. blue book value is only an estimation or average of what your vehicle could be worth given a favorable market. Basically, the odds of selling ANY item that ONLY looses value for what you think you deserve for it, are slim even in the best of circumstances.

As for the house selling reference, I disagree. Homes will ALWAYS gain value over the long term. Homes, first and foremost, sit on land. And land...well, they ain't making any more of it (except maybe in Dubai), so it's cost will continually go up. Yes, the physical structure of the house itself may being to deteriorate, but it will never, ever be completely worthless. There will always be some (maybe hidden) value in it.



Now as for SaturnFest being postponed...I think you're on the right track Charlie. Sounds like a good, respectable decision to me. It is definitely not a time for celebration, regarding our beloved Saturn. So let us remember it, the good and the bad.

[lesswealthyguy]

Originally Posted by ToledoEngineer

Unless you're selling your vehicle the minute you pay it off (5yrs or less), I would never expect to get half of the vehicle's original worth. And realistically, even at that point I probably wouldn't. Now maybe you're talking blue book value. Well, this is where market factors come into play. blue book value is only an estimation or average of what your vehicle could be worth given a favorable market. Basically, the odds of selling ANY item that ONLY looses value for what you think you deserve for it, are slim even in the best of circumstances.

As for the house selling reference, I disagree. Homes will ALWAYS gain value over the long term. Homes, first and foremost, sit on land. And land...well, they ain't making any more of it (except maybe in Dubai), so it's cost will continually go up. Yes, the physical structure of the house itself may being to deteriorate, but it will never, ever be completely worthless. There will always be some (maybe hidden) value in it.

Now as for SaturnFest being postponed...I think you're on the right track Charlie. Sounds like a good, respectable decision to me. It is definitely not a time for celebration, regarding our beloved Saturn. So let us remember it, the good and the bad.

I can't understand why the loss of wealth doesn't register with you guys. You sit back and take it in the rear from a group of useless executives who are sniffing the world's ass with their tail between their legs and you don't stand up to do something about it? You walk into a dealer now and ask them what you'll get for your Saturn - it will be substantially less than it was the second before they made their "phasing out" announcement. Also, everyone knows the little trite platitude about cars losing value the second you drive them off the lot... that's not what is being discussed here.

America has become an even more apathetic loser than anyone has ever feared it would.

And no... homes won't always gain value - maybe the land they're on will but the structure won't. Go study some public tax records and you'll learn something shocking... land gains value - structures lose value in the long run.

[Jaseball]

Well, I guess since my Ion3 is a 2003 first year sedan I really don't expect it to get much for the car if it were used as a trade in now, but the car itself is still far more valuable to me.

Buying anything is a negotiation and whatever something is worth now compared to what you paid for is totally determined by you and a potential new buyer.

For example, I would not mind buying an older well cared for Vue with moderate miles. I'd be happy to pay more than a dealer would.

If I walked into a store and paid $5K for an expensive watch, then turned around and tried to re-sell it to the store I'd be lucky to get $1K.

As for being apathetic. One of the tricks in life is to recognize what battles to fight and what to just let roll off your back.

People in America all the time talk about suing, class actions, and threatening other legal action, but in reality, in the vast majority of the time it's an empty threat. Unless a lawyer takes your case on a contingency or sees a slam dunk who is going to pay $200-500+ per hour on attorney fees?

How fast would you rack up the costs of your car's depreciation in fees? How long before your entire cost of the car is taken by the attorney? Who wins now?

If you really feel so strongly and actually believe you have a case, then start the class action yourself and see how far you get.

[bobafett1985]

it's only a loss if you sell it. I prefer to remember Saturn for what it stood for. Good old fashioned American ambition and innovation.

[Starduster_Sat]

Charlie: Do what you need to do- regardless of all the poorly directed anger that's been flying around. I've tried to do my part speaking to it. And have finally come to the stage of grief called "acceptance". Hence the "places that are gone" quote. Extra bonus points for guessing the song and the artist.

I agree that restaging this later is the best solution. This weekend was too soon for a lot of us. I'm hoping that one month later, this Fest can be a positive experience for all. We and the two Starduster Saturns will be there. Aloha.

[lesswealthyguy]

Originally Posted by Jaseball

Well, I guess since my Ion3 is a 2003 first year sedan I really don't expect it to get much for the car if it were used as a trade in now, but the car itself is still far more valuable to me.

Buying anything is a negotiation and whatever something is worth now compared to what you paid for is totally determined by you and a potential new buyer.

For example, I would not mind buying an older well cared for Vue with moderate miles. I'd be happy to pay more than a dealer would.

If I walked into a store and paid $5K for an expensive watch, then turned around and tried to re-sell it to the store I'd be lucky to get $1K.

As for being apathetic. One of the tricks in life is to recognize what battles to fight and what to just let roll off your back.

People in America all the time talk about suing, class actions, and threatening other legal action, but in reality, in the vast majority of the time it's an empty threat. Unless a lawyer takes your case on a contingency or sees a slam dunk who is going to pay $200-500+ per hour on attorney fees?

How fast would you rack up the costs of your car's depreciation in fees? How long before your entire cost of the car is taken by the attorney? Who wins now?

If you really feel so strongly and actually believe you have a case, then start the class action yourself and see how far you get.

I believe i will try it myself.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Jaseball

Well, as far as Saturn fest we really should help Charlie out and we really shouldn't give him any grief.

It's easy to sit here and complain about GM or sit back and watch to see if his Saturn fest idea would work, but he's one guy who does this as a labor of love who spends limited free time fixing broken DB's, adding news, etc.

He also doesn't have a single mod or other free help, unlike other sites that are just a BBS with 10+ mods.

When he is ready for Saturnfest we should spend some time helping if possible. Either chip in some cash, submit photos/videos, write something about a memorable experience you had/trip you took with your Saturn, and help him create content.

Heck, I bought several items from the defunct Saturn branded stuff and would be happy to chip in something as a prize for a contest he holds or something along that line.

I also have some nice photos of my Saturns and several great memories I'd be willing to share.

Thanks! The retooled SaturnFest will definitely be a "flashback" event, and I'll be asking visitors to submit their favorite stories, photos, and videos via a link on the font page soon.

Charlie

[Charlie]

Thanks for everyone's support and understanding.

Charlie

[daver]

Originally Posted by Jaseball

As for being apathetic. One of the tricks in life is to recognize what battles to fight and what to just let roll off your back.

+1

There is nothing to be gained by going after GM over this. Even if there was a case to be made, the stakes for GM would be so high that it is doubtful any legal action would be decided in not only our lifetime, but probably not within our children's children's lifetime.

It's time to let it go.

I'm sorry for your loss, lesswealthyguy, but when it comes to buying cars, you buys your ticket and you takes your chance.

I hear Mitsubishi has employee pricing for Saturn owners.
(Your welcome, Sports Mitsu.)