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Old 10-22-2009, 02:58 PM   #1
mx103
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Default P0410 error code - HELP

I just bought a nice 1999 SL for my daughter to drive. Its dual ohc 1.9l automatic with 150k mi. leather and sunroof.

The day after bringing it home I decided to freshen it up and baseline it, since it seemed to idle a little rough causing vibrations.
New Plugs, air filter, T stat, anti freeze, and the S shaped hose, from the valve cover to the air intake tube. Started it up and let it idle a while and it's running nice and smooth now.

After about an hour of running I now have the SES light on. I had the code scanned at AutoZone which read P0410.
I fully checked out the Secondary Air Inj system as described in many of the posts here. And it appears to be in good working order.
The air pump turns on and runs for approx 20seconds with the engine hot or cold.
The vacuum switch sends vacuum to the 1 way air valve when the pump runs
The air valve opens and closes depending on vacuum or no vacuum.


Last night I cleaned out the silver tube running to the exhaust manifold, but it wasn't to carboned up. The port to the manifold was partially blocked, about 75%, so I cleaned that out and sent a flexible wire down the length of the manifold in each direction. Then started the motor to blow out the carbon dust.

I put it all back together and still have the SES light.
Other posts here have recommended replacing the ECTS which I just got from AutoZone. I'll try that tonight. I would have got the OEM, but there are no Saturn dealers within 30 mi.

I'm not holding out much hope the ECTS will resolve the issue.

So I'm hoping some of the experts here can offer other recommendations
One thing I wonder about is how long the air pump is supposed to run.
It seemed to run longer while I was inspecting the vehicle at the previous owners.

Thanks in advance

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Old 10-22-2009, 05:17 PM   #2
cfg83
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

mc103 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by mx103 View Post
I just bought a nice 1999 SL for my daughter to drive. Its dual ohc 1.9l automatic with 150k mi. leather and sunroof.

The day after bringing it home I decided to freshen it up and baseline it, since it seemed to idle a little rough causing vibrations.
New Plugs, air filter, T stat, anti freeze, and the S shaped hose, from the valve cover to the air intake tube. Started it up and let it idle a while and it's running nice and smooth now.

After about an hour of running I now have the SES light on. I had the code scanned at AutoZone which read P0410.
I fully checked out the Secondary Air Inj system as described in many of the posts here. And it appears to be in good working order.
The air pump turns on and runs for approx 20seconds with the engine hot or cold.
The vacuum switch sends vacuum to the 1 way air valve when the pump runs
The air valve opens and closes depending on vacuum or no vacuum.


Last night I cleaned out the silver tube running to the exhaust manifold, but it wasn't to carboned up. The port to the manifold was partially blocked, about 75%, so I cleaned that out and sent a flexible wire down the length of the manifold in each direction. Then started the motor to blow out the carbon dust.

I put it all back together and still have the SES light.
Other posts here have recommended replacing the ECTS which I just got from AutoZone. I'll try that tonight. I would have got the OEM, but there are no Saturn dealers within 30 mi.

I'm not holding out much hope the ECTS will resolve the issue.

So I'm hoping some of the experts here can offer other recommendations
One thing I wonder about is how long the air pump is supposed to run.
It seemed to run longer while I was inspecting the vehicle at the previous owners.

Thanks in advance
Do you know the brand of pre-cat 02 sensor you have? OldNuc has stated that the non-OEM Bosch 02 sensors are "sluggish" and will not respond fast enough to pass the test that leads to the P0410 error code.

I am getting that error all the time these days, so I need to do the secondary air injection testing and cleanup. I do have the Bosch sensor, so that may be a contributor to me seeing the code.

CarloSW2

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Old 10-22-2009, 05:32 PM   #3
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1997 SL2
Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Don't bother with the OEM ECTS. the $12 one at your FLAPS is fine, the dealer version is just a bit overpriced. So yeah, good call on getting the one at autozone.

if you need the connector as well (you'll know if it has green corrosion in it), either pull off a IAT sensor wiring from a junkyard Saturn, or speak to Low Saturn, he sells connectors.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

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Old 10-22-2009, 06:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Not sure on the 02 sensor brand. I would say it looks like the original OEM.
It looks 10 yrs old.

Thanks for that suggestion

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Old 10-22-2009, 07:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Bummer Just as I suspected.
I installed the ECTS then removed the battery cable to clear the computer.
After a few short trips the SES light is back on.

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Old 10-22-2009, 08:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

If the light comes back on and it's still P0410..

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0410

sounds like an air pump... do these Saturns even HAVE air pumps?

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

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Old 10-23-2009, 02:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

adventureoflink -

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
If the light comes back on and it's still P0410..

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0410

sounds like an air pump... do these Saturns even HAVE air pumps?
The secondary air injection pump only comes on when you start the car and the engine is cold. It's used to help clean up emissions at startup (I don't know *how* it makes it cleaner). The first time I heard it I thought there was something wrong with my Saturn. I heard this bad whine that went away after 60 seconds. I thought my belt or *something* was rubbing inside the engine bay.

I recently passed California emissions with this error. It *only* effects cold warmups, so it is not critical to emissions compliance.

CarloSW2

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Old 10-23-2009, 02:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

mx103 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by mx103 View Post
Not sure on the 02 sensor brand. I would say it looks like the original OEM.
It looks 10 yrs old.

Thanks for that suggestion
Since you didn't mention the 02 sensor, that's what I thought.

Hmmmm, wait for an expert to chime in, because OEM 02 sensors can be $$$, but maybe you do need a new 02 sensor. Maybe your 10 year old 02 sensor is on the way out and is as "sluggish" as my Bosch 02 sensor. If it is going bad, this could effect you MPG too.

CarloSW2

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Old 10-23-2009, 06:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Ok here's the deal I think.

I decided since the exhaust manifold port leading to the stainless tube, and one way air valve was 75% clogged, there's a good chance the rest of the manifold tubes might be clogged as well.

I removed the exhaust manifold to find I was correct. Not only that, along the air tube duct in the manifold the head has matching small holes maybe 1/4" which run down to the exhaust ports. The two center ports were completely blocked with carbon, and the two outers were about 75% blocked. I removed as much carbon as I could with a pick made from a coat hanger, then sprayed the rest out with PB Blaster and followed up with carb spray cleaner. Until I had good flow into the exhaust ports. I cleaned up the manifold gasket with scotch pad and reassembled every thing back together and left the one way air valve disconnected. I then started the motor and could hear exhaust being blown out the silver tube, as decribed somewhere else in this forum. I didn't have exhaust noise prior to cleaning the ports. Which also means there would be no air flow from the air fan in the other direction. There was a lot of carbon in there. After finishing the reassembly I disconnected the battery to reset the computer again. Then followed up with a 1 hr test drive with a few stop/start cycles along the way. So far so good. No SES light with 30 mi of test driving.

The manifold removal was pretty straight forward. The hardest part was the removal of the ac pump.

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Old 10-24-2009, 02:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

mx103 -

Thanks for the update. I wouldn't be surprised if that's also happening in my SW2.

CarloSW2

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: P0410 error code - HELP

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
mc103 -



Do you know the brand of pre-cat 02 sensor you have? OldNuc has stated that the non-OEM Bosch 02 sensors are "sluggish" and will not respond fast enough to pass the test that leads to the P0410 error code.

I am getting that error all the time these days, so I need to do the secondary air injection testing and cleanup. I do have the Bosch sensor, so that may be a contributor to me seeing the code.

CarloSW2
I put in a bosch O2 sensor and still getting P0410. Is it true that Bosch O2 sensors are sluggish.

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