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Old 10-11-2009, 07:34 PM   #1
Ulrike
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1999 SL
Default P0341 code in 1999 SL

Hi,

my local mechanics read errorcode 'P0341' in my Saturn 1999 SL. He said I have to bring the car to the dealer.

I found the post here ' P0340/P0341 Troubleshooting S-Series' ( sierrap615, posted 10-26-2004). The post said that errorcode would mean there is anything wrong with the ignition system. My mechanics said the computer producing the warning would be defect (so not the engine/ignition?).

So, what shall I do:
- shall I bring a printout of these instructions from sierrap615 to my local mechanics?
- or is it better to go the Saturn dealer?

Is that an expensive repair and still worth doing it in an 1999 Saturn?

Thanks for any suggestions,
Ulrike

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Old 10-11-2009, 07:40 PM   #2
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1997 SL2
Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

I remember bringing up this code once before (just the other day actually ) for someone, and here was the response I got:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=10

also, if that doesn't work, replace the CRANKSHAFT Position Sensor.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

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Old 10-11-2009, 07:59 PM   #3
Ulrike
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1999 SL
Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Thanks for the reply/reminder!

and did it work out successfully in the Saturn 97 you posted it for?

Ulrike

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Old 10-11-2009, 08:20 PM   #4
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1997 SL2
Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulrike View Post
Thanks for the reply/reminder!

and did it work out successfully in the Saturn 97 you posted it for?

Ulrike
Actually, in that thread, someone asked if the CPS (Crankshaft/Camshaft Position Sensor) can set off a OBD-2 code, and I googled for it. And, indeed, it does, however in Saturns it's a calculated value and when you get this code it's time to replace the spark plugs/wires.

Be sure you use NGK coppers for the plugs.

...
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DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

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Status: Alive, no heat

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Old 10-11-2009, 08:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
Actually, in that thread, someone asked if the CPS (Crankshaft/Camshaft Position Sensor) can set off a OBD-2 code, and I googled for it. And, indeed, it does, however in Saturns it's a calculated value and when you get this code it's time to replace the spark plugs/wires.
I could be wrong but, I don't think I remember ever seeing the crankshaft codes posted on a Saturn. I think that's why you see so many for sale with the "engine just died" description? I believe that if you do actually have both sensors then you would be more likely to see those as valid codes? Then again, not the first time I've been "off-track"?

...
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Purchased 114k 10/07
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by off-track View Post
I could be wrong but, I don't think I remember ever seeing the crankshaft codes posted on a Saturn. I think that's why you see so many for sale with the "engine just died" description? I believe that if you do actually have both sensors then you would be more likely to see those as valid codes? Then again, not the first time I've been "off-track"?
haha nice use of pun

but still, the EPA, gubmint, etc. made this code as a emissions-related code, a storable code in the vehicle's PCM, and they did it for a reason...

same with the ECTS. it states in the manual that if there's something wrong with the coolant temp gauge (and the SES lights), the red coolant/trans light lights up and the gauge stays at half... it does it for a reason..

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

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Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

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Old 10-11-2009, 09:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
but still, the EPA, gubmint, etc. made this code as a emissions-related code, a storable code in the vehicle's PCM, and they did it for a reason...

same with the ECTS. it states in the manual that if there's something wrong with the coolant temp gauge (and the SES lights), the red coolant/trans light lights up and the gauge stays at half... it does it for a reason..
Um, well yeah except.. Like you said, the codes are governed by emissions, not performance, even though they should be!. If the ECTS is bad most won't usually see any of that. It will just run strange (no MIL, no codes, just strange things like high idle, erroneous gauge readings and other oddities). All this is why it's ALWAYS the first fix to check for any S.

...
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Purchased 114k 10/07
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by off-track View Post
Um, well yeah except.. Like you said, the codes are governed by emissions, not performance, even though they should be!. If the ECTS is bad most won't usually see any of that. It will just run strange (no MIL, no codes, just strange things like high idle, erroneous gauge readings and other oddities). All this is why it's ALWAYS the first fix to check for any S.
Hm... I wonder if it's possible to fail emissions with a failing CPS, ECTS, thermostat, and/or O2 sensor...

+1 for no emissions in kentucky.. however this Saturn has prepared me for future vehicles I buy and maintain.

also, FWIW, wouldn't any orange/amber/yellow and red-colored light on a dashboard be considered a MIL?

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

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Old 10-11-2009, 09:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Sorry, MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) is the official term for the Service Engine Soon light. On a OBD scanner it will show as MIL (the one you can clear or reset with the PCM-B fuse). The other lights (wrench, coolant, etc) are indicators of other non-emission problems. and as such don't point to emission issues and can't be reset.

Yes you would probably fail emissions testing with a bad 02 sensor (does set the MIL) as well as with a bad ECTS and/or thermostat (no MIL) because it would never enter closed loop to complete the pending tests. Some issues that contribute to a fail may not necessarily cause the MIL to turn on though.

...
1997 - SL2, barebones, 161k, Auto - Rebuild complete and.. burnt a valve 20k later Arrgh!
Purchased 114k 10/07
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by off-track View Post
Sorry, MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) is the official term for the Service Engine Soon light. On a OBD scanner it will show as MIL (the one you can clear or reset with the PCM-B fuse). The other lights (wrench, coolant, etc) are indicators of other non-emission problems. and as such don't point to emission issues and can't be reset.

Yes you would probably fail emissions testing with a bad 02 sensor (does set the MIL) as well as with a bad ECTS and/or thermostat (no MIL) because it would never enter closed loop to complete the pending tests. Some issues that contribute to a fail may not necessarily cause the MIL to turn on though.
How exactly does the SES light get described as a MIL yet all the other lights suddenly DON'T? I mean really, all the lamps (most, actually) are there to alert you of a malfunction of SOME kind... Also, doesn't the airbag, service wrench, and ABS light store codes (somewhere) too?

emissions caring for is SO confusing (as you also said that the SES triggers should be based on performance vs. whatever the allowed emissions is)... and pointless, especially if over 98% of the vehicles in your area pass it... I'm probably gonna attract the hate of tree huggers right now, but that's how it was in my area.

and yes, at any time when that SES light comes on, you DO fail emissions. I asked about those items, assuming your SES light wasn't on.

...
97 SL2
DOB: 3/19/97
Date Obtained: 5/30/07
Status: Alive, 1/2 exhaust

2004 Merc G.Marquis GS
DOB: 2/4/04
Date Obtained: 7/6/12
Status: Alive, no heat

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Old 10-11-2009, 10:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureoflink View Post
How exactly does the SES light get described as a MIL yet all the other lights suddenly DON'T? I mean really, all the lamps (most, actually) are there to alert you of a malfunction of SOME kind... Also, doesn't the airbag, service wrench, and ABS light store codes (somewhere) too?
Well, the short answer is yes and no. It depends on the vehicle and it's systems. MIL/SES are about emissions and (mostly) nothing else. That's why most ABS codes are usually (not always) stored in the BCM. I don't have ABS in mine so I've never looked into how Sat handles it. It does take a separate (or more expensive) scanner to read those. I know that my son's Pontiac had a bad wheel sensor and he had to use a Tech-II to tell what the problem was (no MIL but it had a TRAC light). I'd guess same goes for the SIR but I haven't looked at that much on a Sat either?? The Pontiac had a short to the module under the passenger seat (only showed "Airbag" light). Supposedly the Tech-II will pick up some of the wrench lights but I don't have one so I can't speak from experience. The most common response is that it sets because of burnt out bulbs from other sources (like the MIL.SES).

Quote:
at any time when that SES light comes on, you DO fail emissions. I asked about those items, assuming your SES light wasn't on.
True, quick cut. SOOO glad we don't have emissions testing here .. yet!

...
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Purchased 114k 10/07
Added OEM CC

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Old 10-11-2009, 10:59 PM   #12
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by off-track View Post
Well, the short answer is yes and no. It depends on the vehicle and it's systems. MIL/SES are about emissions and (mostly) nothing else. That's why most ABS codes are usually (not always) stored in the BCM. I don't have ABS in mine so I've never looked into how Sat handles it. It does take a separate (or more expensive) scanner to read those. I know that my son's Pontiac had a bad wheel sensor and he had to use a Tech-II to tell what the problem was (no MIL but it had a TRAC light). I'd guess same goes for the SIR but I haven't looked at that much either?? Supposedly the Tech-II will pick up some of the wrench lights but I don't have one so I can't speak from experience. The most common response is that it sets because of burnt out bulbs from other sources (like the MIL.SES).
I don't have ABS In the Saturn, but I have it in the van.. And I believe it's all seperate computers. IIRC there are wrench codes for ABS though, but I believe it'd be for the computer going bad.

And yes you sadly need seperate (and expensive) readers for ABS, airbags, and service wrench (or equivalent). I need to get my hands on a tech-II...



Quote:
Originally Posted by off-track View Post
True, quick cut. SOOO glad we don't have emissions testing here .. yet!
yeah, I read somewhere if pResident papa BOzo (and other far leftists) have their way, consistent e-checks would be ran throughout the states. Those that don't do e-checks would have to do them , however smog Nazis (CA, PA, NY, and MA specifically) would get less restrictions.

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Old 10-11-2009, 11:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

[QUOTE=adventureoflink;1527514]I need to get my hands on a tech-II...[/QUOTE}

Glad to hear you have a spare $4k on hand.. That alone is a good reason to make friends with the local tech school. Hint, they like cookies...

Quote:
yeah, I read somewhere if pResident papa BOzo (and other far leftists) have their way, consistent e-checks would be ran throughout the states. Those that don't do e-checks would have to do them , however smog Nazis (CA, PA, NY, and MA specifically) would get less restrictions.
I really don't want to go down that road .. but, I'm sure we'll get nick'd for the oil burning.. who cares what the mileage is, after all it is just oil right?

...
1997 - SL2, barebones, 161k, Auto - Rebuild complete and.. burnt a valve 20k later Arrgh!
Purchased 114k 10/07
Added OEM CC

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Old 10-12-2009, 11:23 AM   #14
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1996 SL
Default Re: P0341 code in 1999 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulrike View Post
Hi,

my local mechanics read errorcode 'P0341' in my Saturn 1999 SL. He said I have to bring the car to the dealer.

I found the post here ' P0340/P0341 Troubleshooting S-Series' ( sierrap615, posted 10-26-2004). The post said that errorcode would mean there is anything wrong with the ignition system. My mechanics said the computer producing the warning would be defect (so not the engine/ignition?).

So, what shall I do:
- shall I bring a printout of these instructions from sierrap615 to my local mechanics?
- or is it better to go the Saturn dealer?

Is that an expensive repair and still worth doing it in an 1999 Saturn?

Thanks for any suggestions,
Ulrike
Ulrike,
This code is related to your ignition system on a Saturn. Three things that contribute to this code are spark plugs, plug wires, and the ICM ignition control module.
It in no way refers to the CRANKSHAFT position sensor!!!!!
The generic code refers to the CAMshaft position sensor, which Saturns do not have!
Common problems leading to this code are as follows,

Wrong spark plugs installed, very common, Do NOT use platinum, iridium, or any other type of fancy high priced spark plugs. Use only regular copper core plugs, NGK are considered the best.

Bad spark plug wires, use mid priced brand named exact fit wires. Route them properly with the factory clips.

Dirty or corroded ground connection on the ICM. This is the ignition module located under the two ignition coils and grouned to the engine with the mounting bolts. You need to remove the coils and modules and clean everything nicely. Make sure the ignition coil towers, where the plug wires connect, are also clean.

These are the things that will throw this code. Nothing else. The talk in the above posts will just confuse the issue you originally asked about.

...
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1998 SC1 still running, FOR SALE cheap!
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