SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Categories > General Saturn Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2009, 05:23 PM   #1
Charlie
Administrator
Charlie is a splendid one to beholdCharlie is a splendid one to beholdCharlie is a splendid one to beholdCharlie is a splendid one to beholdCharlie is a splendid one to beholdCharlie is a splendid one to beholdCharlie is a splendid one to beholdCharlie is a splendid one to behold
 
Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 3,773
 

2008 Outlook XR
2005 VUE Red Line
Default Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

A new feeditems entry has been added:

Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

Quote:
Bryan Laviolette from Michigan WLLZ: Much has been written about why Saturn was somewhat of a success through much of the 1990s. Even though General Motors starved the brand for new products, those who bought Saturns back then loved them. Sure, buyers enjoyed the no-haggle deals and the fresh approach to selling cars. They loved it when dealer employees clapped as they drove their cars away for the first time. But what they really loved was that the cars were good, possibly the best cars GM has made since the 1950s when it ruled the American market.

...
2008 Saturn Outlook XR
2005 VUE Red Line
2002 L300 (sold)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Charlie's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Charlie reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 10-12-2009, 03:22 PM   #2
guy_450
Member
guy_450 will become famous soon enough
 
guy_450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: rive-nord de Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 396

2000 SW2
2001 SW2
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

I never kept a car (SW1 '95) 14 years before. Then, I bought a SL1 '02 to replace it. I did no set at all a record but yes, I loved that S-serie.

...
2000 SW2 5MT silver
2001 SW2 4AT silver (garaged)
2012 VOLT Electric instant torque & regen braking go so well together !!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to guy_450's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help guy_450 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
guy_450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 04:55 PM   #3
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

In my opinion, three things separated Saturn's S Series cars from GM's other small car offerings of the day, like the Cavalier. I'm talking strictly about the cars, not the dealers or the customer service.

1) Saturn managed to earn Consumer Reports' "Much better than average" reliability rating when pretty much all of GM's other products were worse to much worse than average

2) Saturn earned high crash test ratings when cars like the Cavalier were mediocre

3) Saturns looked sleek and modern, and had sportier styling imo than the Cavaliers of the day. (And for an economy car, they had good performance to match the looks! I doubt a comparable priced Cavalier had a fully independent suspension or four wheel disc brakes, like my SL2 did. Of course, the ION was a step backwards in that regard.)

...
Celebrity Eurosport.
When the road gets a little nervous, take one of these.

Last edited by VTHokie00SL2; 10-12-2009 at 05:04 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 05:02 PM   #4
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

I loved my SL2, and I doubt I'll ever own a car again that's as durable and reliable as that car was. I put 220,000 miles on it and would've kept it even longer, but I hit a deer on a rural Pennsylvania road and just couldn't justify putting the money in to repair it at that point.

...
Celebrity Eurosport.
When the road gets a little nervous, take one of these.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 08:37 AM   #5
Citation84
Master Member
Citation84 has a spectacular aura aboutCitation84 has a spectacular aura about
 
Citation84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,967
 

2005 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

By 96 CR was reporting engine and trans problems with the S Series and it certainly wasn't recommending Saturns by 97, but the Cavalier.

Had a 99 Cavalier. And have a 95 SL1. The Cavalier being esentially a 95 is on a par with the SL1, plus it was quieter, rode better, was more comfortable came standard with ABS, power steering and [with the automatic]traction control and nothing ever went wrong with it. And the price was lower.

The SL1 had two heads crack before 36,000 miles.

And the Cavalier was never known for it's blown differential pins or slamming transmissions.

There were plenty of black spots on S Series charts. Electrical, engine, mechanical,transmisson etc.They started off well, but dropped quickly once those engines started sucking oil. Noit minor s**t, either. And a crop of Saturn Lemon and Hate and Blows pages popped up on the Internet as well. They weren't even close to the myth that cropped up around them.That is revisionist history.

I would never consider taking the SL1 on a long trim as I would be crippled and deaf by the end of the trip.

And yet: I still love the car. And it's still ordinary. It might have been amazing in 1985. Not by 1995. And especially not by 2002.

Good cars. Fun to drive. Perfectly ordinary except for the space frame and polymer.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Citation84's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Citation84 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Citation84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 02:45 PM   #6
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

I must have gotten a good one! I had one initial defect on delivery - a leaking o-ring in the a/c system that caused the car to lose refrigerant quickly. I had that fixed within the first couple of weeks of ownership, as I recall. In 220,000 miles, I really didn't have to replace much. Besides the standard wear items like brake rotors (which did warp too easily), I had the cam cover gasket replaced, the ABS electronic unit behind the back seat (if I'm remembering that correctly), the fuel pump, a seal on the steering pump, and that's about it. The starter was going when I sold the car for scrap. And I think I was adding at least a quart of oil between oil changes at that point. Never had any transmission issues. Sometimes it would sort of slam into reverse, but it never got to the point of having to fix anything in the time I had it.

And of course, thanks to the polymer body panels, the body still looked great after 8 years and 220,000 miles! (Aside from the damaged light fixture and steel hood after I hit a deer!)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 02:46 PM   #7
VTHokie00SL2
Master Member
VTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enoughVTHokie00SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
VTHokie00SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,060
 
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

Oh yes, and the upper motor mounts. Forgot about that!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to VTHokie00SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help VTHokie00SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
VTHokie00SL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 06:39 PM   #8
Starduster_Sat
Member
Starduster_Sat is on a distinguished road
 
Starduster_Sat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 110
 

1997 SL2
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

Did someone say "slamming transmissions"? That was (note the "was") one of the few irritations with the '97 SL2 my wife drives. We can't identify what Saturn of Alexandria did beyond changing the automatic's fluid and filter, but it no longer does that- shifts the way it should have shifted all along. This HAS to be a fluid flow problem. Maybe in the filter. The only other time I dealt with something similar was a Chrysler Torqueflite that was low on ATF.

Revisionists. Grr. I've spoken about them earlier. Bottom line- The Cavalier was never an option for us. And my wife's Spectrum was busy demonstrating that not ALL Japanese cars are superior (take that, Izuzu). If Saturn did not exist, we would be running Toyota or Honda.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Starduster_Sat's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Starduster_Sat reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Starduster_Sat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 07:49 PM   #9
MikeNW
Master Member
MikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really niceMikeNW is just really nice
 
MikeNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lower Alabama= God's country, if God wanted mosquito and red ant bites, and to be covered in mildew
Posts: 3,244
 

1997 SL
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

I think it's a pretty darn good car. (97 SL)
Bad points- the stupid diff pin which I can't trust and which will make driving in the Midwest this winter somewhat unpleasant. (Won't be able to drive it with abandon, like my old Rabbit). Driver's seat causes pain after 6 hours but a chair cushion will help.
Good points- Still solid and rattle-free after 12 years. I like the polymer panels. Runs perfectly still. I am convinced that the space frame structure is superior.

I will miss the dealer attention, it was the small things, such as seeing my picture on a bulletin board when I bought it in 1997, and getting birthday cards. Saturn RIP.

...
97 SL. Born 6/5/97, bought 7/7/97
08 Burgman 400
02 Haro MTB- can't kill it, still trying though

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to MikeNW's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help MikeNW reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
MikeNW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 08:42 PM   #10
kknobl
Member
kknobl will become famous soon enough
 
kknobl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bucks County, Pennsylvania
Posts: 481
 

2009 AURA XE
2008 Outlook XE
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation84 View Post
By 96 CR was reporting engine and trans problems with the S Series and it certainly wasn't recommending Saturns by 97, but the Cavalier.

Had a 99 Cavalier. And have a 95 SL1. The Cavalier being esentially a 95 is on a par with the SL1, plus it was quieter, rode better, was more comfortable came standard with ABS, power steering and [with the automatic]traction control and nothing ever went wrong with it. And the price was lower.

The SL1 had two heads crack before 36,000 miles.

And the Cavalier was never known for it's blown differential pins or slamming transmissions.

There were plenty of black spots on S Series charts. Electrical, engine, mechanical,transmisson etc.They started off well, but dropped quickly once those engines started sucking oil. Noit minor s**t, either. And a crop of Saturn Lemon and Hate and Blows pages popped up on the Internet as well. They weren't even close to the myth that cropped up around them.That is revisionist history.

I would never consider taking the SL1 on a long trim as I would be crippled and deaf by the end of the trip.

And yet: I still love the car. And it's still ordinary. It might have been amazing in 1985. Not by 1995. And especially not by 2002.

Good cars. Fun to drive. Perfectly ordinary except for the space frame and polymer.
Did the Cavalier suffer from the big malady of most GM cars of the 1990s - the warped/blown intake manifold gasket??

Just curious...

Last edited by kknobl; 10-13-2009 at 08:50 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to kknobl's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help kknobl reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
kknobl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 10:59 PM   #11
saturn 51
Junior Member
saturn 51 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 41
Wrench Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

The transmission problems are caused by aftermarket trans. fluid.
Takes about a year to do its damage and your trans. is shot.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturn 51's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturn 51 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturn 51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 11:14 AM   #12
crystal scan
Advanced Member
crystal scan is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: bay area calfornia
Posts: 654

2003 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: Saturn Deserves Better than Revisionists Calling Its Cars Ordinary

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2 View Post
In my opinion, three things separated Saturn's S Series cars from GM's other small car offerings of the day, like the Cavalier. I'm talking strictly about the cars, not the dealers or the customer service.

1) Saturn managed to earn Consumer Reports' "Much better than average" reliability rating when pretty much all of GM's other products were worse to much worse than average

2) Saturn earned high crash test ratings when cars like the Cavalier were mediocre

3) Saturns looked sleek and modern, and had sportier styling imo than the Cavaliers of the day. (And for an economy car, they had good performance to match the looks! I doubt a comparable priced Cavalier had a fully independent suspension or four wheel disc brakes, like my SL2 did. Of course, the ION was a step backwards in that regard.)
because saturn is very safe car

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to crystal scan's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help crystal scan reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
crystal scan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Affordable Saturn Subcompact Deserves a Better Fate Charlie Astra General 12 06-01-2009 09:55 AM
Calling All Astras: Email Hahn Racecraft for turbokit for our cars pix Astra General 1 04-22-2009 10:21 AM
Zippy Saturn Sky Deserves to Survive GM Woes Charlie Sky Red Line 3 03-31-2009 10:35 AM
My saturn deserves better than me! Help!! majoulet7 S-Series General 9 12-01-2008 12:16 PM
Saturn is denied the credit it deserves yet again... edwilson13185 General Saturn Discussion 20 10-06-2003 01:00 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.