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Old 11-02-2009, 01:06 PM   #161
OldNuc
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Quote:
Originally Posted by cboss View Post
I bought a tube of the Permatex version of the LocTite 518.
Its a 50 ml tube (big one) so it should go far.

I'll use it in the rear main seal carrier.

Would it be useful for the timing chain cover ?

Yes, That is what it was sealed up with from teh factory. Be sure that you clean off both surfaces with acetone as it will markedly improve teh quality of the seal.

Is so how do you apply it on a timing chain cover ?
Run a bead into the grove that stands a bit proud above the surface. If you are going to put teh cover on after the block is in teh frame use the exhaust studs to hang teh cover on so it goes on straight.
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:09 PM   #162
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Quote:
Originally Posted by cboss View Post
Since I am using new pistons, new rings and getting the cylinders rebored, is there any need to double check the ring gap ?
(where you slide rings in and check gap between ends of ring with feeler gauge)

When I start assembling the block, does one clean the rod and main journals with anything before putting the lube on them ?
Bearings should be fine. Wipe the crank journals of and put assembly lube on each journal. Checking ring gap is a good idea. It is possible to get the wrong rings in the box.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:25 PM   #163
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

The Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker (#51813) directions mentions something called:

Permatex Surface Prep

which is to be used to prepare one surface.

Is this required ?

What benefit is there to use it ?
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:49 PM   #164
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Its a cleaner primer and it does not hurt to use it if you can find it. Acetone and a Scotch-Brite is a viable substitute.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:58 PM   #165
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

I got the block back today from the machine shop.

They bored the cylinders to .020 inches (20 thousands) larger.

The rings are Hastings .020 over standard size.

The pistons are Sealed Power brand , .5 mm (equals .020 inches) oversized.

The cylinders have also been honed by machine (not by hand).

In the photos you can see the cylinders and the hatch pattern hone, the pistons and the engine block ready to start assembling.

Tommorrow I begin to assemble the block with brand new:

- Pistons
- Rings
- Crankshaft (remanufactured w/ matching bearings)
- Main Bearings
- Rod Bearings
- Rear Main Seal
Attached Images
File Type: jpg z01.jpg (52.4 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg z02.jpg (68.2 KB, 142 views)
File Type: jpg z03.jpg (88.0 KB, 160 views)
File Type: jpg z04.jpg (83.6 KB, 128 views)
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:17 PM   #166
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

This is looking good.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:32 PM   #167
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

OldNuc,

Does the hone pattern (see photos) look acceptable ?
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:36 PM   #168
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Yes. Be sure to fully coat the pistons and rings and the bore before installing them. Get 2 pieces of rubber hose to stick on the rod bolts so they do not nick the crank.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:48 PM   #169
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

On another note:

I was discussing something with one of the mechanics from the machine shop.

Since my old crankshaft had so much end play , I was wondering if the back and forth motion caused by a badly worn crankshaft on the thrust bearing (endplay) would cause oil to leak out the seals (ie. timing chain cover crank seal and main rear oil seal).

He said yes!

It makes sense to me. If the crank slides back and forth (endplay) rapidly when the engine is running, it would cause a pumping effect at the oil seals and even if the seals are in good condition, I would think that oil would just pump out of them.

While the oil leakage could have been from other things, I had a lot of oil spraying all over the area just below the lower engine mount (dogbone) near the crankshaft pulley. I could not figure out where it was coming from, but the crank endplay could have been part of the cause.

Also the clutch was oil soaked and oil crud all over the inside of the tranny case. While a lot of that may have come from the leaking valve cover in the past (sucked in tranny vent holes), it is possible some of it was from the rear main seal caused by crank excessive endplay.

I will also be replacing both oil seals with new ones and installing a new LUK clutch.

This will be an almost total rebuild job:

Block:
- New reman. Crankshaft and matching main and rod bearings
- new pistons
- new rings
- bored cylinders and hone
- new oil seals

Head:
- rebuilt head (valves reground, new seals, etc.)

Gaskets:
- new head gasket and bolts
- new intake manifold gasket
- new exhaust manifold gasket
- new throttlebody gasket
- new EGR gasket (still have to but this)

Timing chain:
- new timing chain (was already installed and will be reused
- new oil pump parts kit
- new timing chain cover oil seal

I need to get the tranny out (its just sitting there) and clean it up good.

I bought new driveshaft seals for the tranny.

OldNuc,

The left (drivers side) driveshaft is stuck and doesn't slide out easily. I don't want to damage it, getting it out. Should it just slide out ?

How does one safely get that driveshaft out of the tranny ?
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:51 PM   #170
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

The crankshaft kit (reman crank and matching bearings) came with two little rubber things which I think are for putting on the rod bolts when installing, so I don't need rubber hose.

I also got some engine assembly lube from Advance (made by CRC).
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:24 PM   #171
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Just a comment about the expense for all of this.

In totally, I will be spending about $1000 for the whole job.

This includes in the price:

- Rebuilt head by machine shop
- all the parts for the block rebuild and the boring and cleaning
- all the gaskets and other stuff
- a new LUK clutch

and about $200 worth of tools I purchased (2 hones, ridge cutter, dial bore gauge, caliper, ring compressor set)

Considering the tools I got, plus the clutch job and then a rebuilt engine, I think its all in all a good deal.

I tried to save money at every corner though (ie. bought clutch on Ebay, tools on Ebay, pistons/rings/crank through machine shop). I compared prices for everything at Advance, AutoZone, NAPA, Orielly's and RockAuto.

I still got some quality parts though (Sealed Power Pistons, Hastings Rings, LUK clutch, Sealed Power Crank and bearings).

I am really impressed with the Pistons and rings.

Plus you add to this, my home made engine lift which cost me about $15 (for hardened bolts) and some old exercise machines sitting around the house. I like my new lift and it saved me almost $200.

The gauges and the ring compressor will get used and made a difference.

The hones and the ridge reamer are unused at this point.

(See photos)

I'll try to document the rebuild steps in this thread, one step at a time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg j01.jpg (121.6 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg j02.jpg (119.3 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg j03.jpg (106.6 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg j04.jpg (114.5 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg j05.jpg (120.7 KB, 85 views)

Last edited by cboss; 11-03-2009 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:41 PM   #172
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

You are right in the ballpark price wise when you have to replace the crank. And, you can never have too many tools.

What tends to tear these motors up is running low on oil and deciding to use teh cheap stuff because they just burn it and then skipping oil changes because you pour in 4 new quarts every 3k miles. After you finish this little exercise you will find that you will not be burning oil any more.

You can check the other thread for the oil system prime procedure and the first startup and oil change recommendations. It really is important. I would use a synthetic blend for the initial start and then switch to a pure synthetic. It takes about as long for the rings to seat as it does for the water to get hot.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:10 AM   #173
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

OldNuc,

I just noticed on the piston box in small letters:

SOHC

The pistons look just like my original pistons (aside from drain hole and teflon stuff).

Are these pistons universal between the SOHC and the DOHC (for a 1996) or did I get the wrong ones ?

(see photo)
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:38 AM   #174
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Well, I think I answered my own question.
I went to Rock Auto web site and looked up Pistons for 96 SL2 (DOHC).

It lists the Sealed Power pistons (4 pack) as part # H845CP
This is the part number on my piston box.

Also it lists the compatible vehicles as 95-98 SL series, which would include both SOHC and DOHC.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:06 AM   #175
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Quote:
Originally Posted by cboss View Post
Well, I think I answered my own question.
I went to Rock Auto web site and looked up Pistons for 96 SL2 (DOHC).

It lists the Sealed Power pistons (4 pack) as part # H845CP
This is the part number on my piston box.

Also it lists the compatible vehicles as 95-98 SL series, which would include both SOHC and DOHC.
Out of curiosity can you post a pic of the tops of the pistons?
The SOHC pistons have a concave centre, the DOHC pistons have a flat top with valve recesses. I was just wondering what the new ones have.
...
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:00 AM   #176
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

The pistons tops are identical to my original ones. Flat top with two depressions on one side for valve clearance.

I believe the SOHC and DOHC engines use the same pistons and what you are refering to are the earlier Saturn pistons. I believe the 91 to 94 pistons are different than the 95 to 98 pistons.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:12 AM   #177
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

The easy way to sort out the piston/valve relationships its to pull up one of the piston manufacturers catalogs ans they provide the measurements and give the volume of the depression, if any.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:17 AM   #178
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

Comparing the numbers on your tag you should be OK.
The blocks are identical.

The DOHC number that I have is H846CP .50mm
But the rest of the numbers match.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:22 AM   #179
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

The difference between the H845CP and H846CP is the top ring grove. Other than that they are identical.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:22 AM   #180
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Default Re: Elusive P0172 code fixed, now new problem and the Saga continues !

I can see them making one oversize piston for both engines, as you say the blocks are the same. Just wondered what the two intake valve recesses would do with the single valve SOHC head? Off to look at sealed power's website!

Hmmm... ring groove is different eh? Wonder why?
...
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