SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-24-2009, 08:34 AM   #1
gruvn
Junior Member
gruvn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shad Bay, NS
Posts: 23
 

1998 SL2
Wrench p1635 has returned

So last weekend, I thought I had finally fixed my car.

Changed the spark plugs, put in a new engine coolant sensor, cleaned the coil packs, and even the new PCM (don't ask. Or do - I posted a thread on it about a week ago).

Anyways, the car has been driving great all week, and then as I'm pulling into my garage this morning, the Check Engine Light reappeared. Sure enough, it's a p1635. No issues driving (yet), but I'd rather not have any!

I saw a post (wolfman's) about how this is usually due to corrosion on the coil packs. I looked at his pictures, and am now realizing that mine did have corrosion. I wiped out the grit and got the surface nice and shiny, but didn't realize the importance of the undersides of the bolts.

I'm going to haul it out again and clean it better. Is it OK that I just use WD40 and a toothbrush? It's what I've got...

Also, anyone have any other bright ideas for tracking down a p1635?

At least it's not stumbling and dying anymore!!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gruvn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gruvn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gruvn is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-24-2009, 10:40 AM   #2
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Go to the grocery store and get one of those Scotch Brite yellow kitchen sponges with the green pot scrubber on the back. Either replace the one on the sink with the new one or rinse out the new one. Soak the green scrubber with WD-40 and clean the back of the bolts. A used one works better. This is the fault tree for your code. Locate the I/P connector to the rear fuel tank pressure sensor. This is a reasonably large multiwire connector located in the left kick panel by the driver's foot. You should be able to tap into that pressure sensor wire and connect a voltmeter to ground so as to be able to monitor the +5vDC reference voltage. I suspect a pinched wire where the wiring from the PCM passes through the firewall to the engine compartment. This is grounding the +5vDC and if you monitor it as above and see it drop down then its a bare wire issue. There have been issues with wiring abrasion where the PCM harness passes through the fire wall, or damage to the reference voltage wire back to the tank. The only component you have not replaced is the tank pressure switch. Clear the codes and if you receive a EVAP, MAP or EGR related code then that will be the circuit that is the problem. I would set up monitoring and then wait and watch. You can visually inspect the wiring to those devices as the problem may be visually obvious.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1635-1.jpg (107.4 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg P1635-2.jpg (96.9 KB, 26 views)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 11:47 AM   #3
gruvn
Junior Member
gruvn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shad Bay, NS
Posts: 23
 

1998 SL2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

If you're ever in Halifax, let me know - I owe you a beer!

Thanks for this, and the advice about the green scrubbie. I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend! I'll update this thread with any findings!

PS: I tried to turn on private messages, but darned if I haven't figured it out.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gruvn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gruvn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gruvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 01:08 PM   #4
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

On the menu bar above select UserCP. Then on the left side look down to Settings & Options, in that list select Edit Options. Then on the right locate the Messaging & Notifications section, Private Messaging block. Check the boxes and at the bottom hit Save. See screen shot.

Clear the codes and set up a voltage monitoring. You may find this real easy.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg screenshot_01.jpg (94.9 KB, 22 views)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 01:15 PM   #5
gruvn
Junior Member
gruvn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shad Bay, NS
Posts: 23
 

1998 SL2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

It seems you need to be a member for longer then me before you can use PMs. My screen was already set like yours. Maybe it'll work eventually.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gruvn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gruvn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gruvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 03:02 PM   #6
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Odd behavior. Not normal at all. You can send them though but neither e-mail or PM show up.

Best fix is to PM Charlie and describe problems. Look at the bottom of the main forum index page and he is listed at the lower right as the Administrator.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 11:56 AM   #7
gruvn
Junior Member
gruvn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shad Bay, NS
Posts: 23
 

1998 SL2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Hey oldNuc -
If you're still looking at this ancient thread - could you please give me a better description of the "I/P Connector". I understand that it should be in center console, accessible from the driver's side kick panel.

Also, when you say "tap into" the pressure sensor wire, would I connect just stick (the positive) multimeter probe into the port where the gray wire is connected, and stick the negative probe on a ground?

Sorry for the delay - we just had visitors for a long time, and I'm just getting back to it. Funny how it hasn't fixed itself!

Cheers,
Mike

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gruvn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gruvn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gruvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 12:19 PM   #8
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvn View Post
Hey oldNuc -
If you're still looking at this ancient thread - could you please give me a better description of the "I/P Connector". I understand that it should be in center console, accessible from the driver's side kick panel.

I will have to look up that specific connector for you in a bit.

Also, when you say "tap into" the pressure sensor wire, would I connect just stick (the positive) multimeter probe into the port where the gray wire is connected, and stick the negative probe on a ground?

You take a straight pin and stick it into the wire bundle under the insulation. Be very careful as teh insulation is tough and you can ram the pin into your finger. Then you connect your multimeter to teh pin and the black lead on battery negative.

Sorry for the delay - we just had visitors for a long time, and I'm just getting back to it. Funny how it hasn't fixed itself!

Cheers,
Mike
The I/P connector is probably a bit elusive..... You have to remove the left kick panel. You will probably se the cable entering towards teh top of the panel if you look and the connector is more towards the floor IIRC.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 02:41 PM   #9
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

The left I/P to Body inline connector is located just above the horizontal line of the left door threshold plate and about 3 to 4 inches in front of the vertical front jamb behind the kick panel. It is the larger of the connectors there. You are looking for pin "U".

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 03:16 PM   #10
gruvn
Junior Member
gruvn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shad Bay, NS
Posts: 23
 

1998 SL2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Hey OldNuc,

I took a photo - does this look like the IP Connector? I'm hesitant, because it's not really recognizable as a connector in my books, since it doesn't really plug into something else. If I am correct, how would you go about finding pin "U". Labels are uncommon.

Sorry to ask so many questions, but this is all new to me.

An update on the error codes...
I had cleared them all and the car ran well for about a month until yesterday in a parking lot where it stalled out a bunch of times. When I limped home, I checked the codes, and there were 5:
  • 1635 (x2) -- 5v circuit
  • 0122 -- TPS
  • 0405 -- EGR
  • 0452 -- fuel tank pressure sensor

As frustrating as that was, I notice that they are all on the 5volt reference circuit you scanned and posted to me a while back (pg 240 in your book). However, the MAP sensor code has never appeared.

Thanks so much for your help!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gruvn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gruvn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gruvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 04:20 PM   #11
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

The reason for no MAP code is that it has to figure out it should set one. And it did not. The others are almost instantaneous when the voltage goes away. The MAP circuit probably thinks the voltage change is a signal as this looks a great deal like an intermitant problem that will not be around for long at any given time.

I will check the photo and post back.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 05:00 PM   #12
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Nope, that is the back of the I/P panel in the center of the car. This is going to be hard to find so all you really need is a point to actually monitor this voltage. This will be much easier. Lets use the EGR as its right out in the open. You will need to pierce the GREY wire in the group of 5 wires in the wires going to the EGR connector. Use a pin and connect the +red meter lead to this pin. Insulate it so it does not ground out the +5v. You will need to connect the -black lead to the battery negative. Turn the key to ON but not crank and you should read +5v on the meeter. Now the fun starts. For every sensor listed that receives this power, shake and pull gently on the wiring, follow it all the way back to the main harness. Also shake the main harness. You do this for the TPS, MAP, and EGR. Do this while watching the meter and looking for a change in indication. The fuel tankpressure sensor is on top of the gas tank so the cable back in the trunk that runs through teh floor and is acesable in the left whel wellis the one to shake. The cable runs from each component to the UHJB, engine fuse box. Then ther is a cable that runs from the UHJB through the firewall to the PCM. Do the 3 branch cables from the sensors to the main harness trunk and then do the main harness to the UHJB. If it has not surfaced then wiggle the harness that goes back into the car. There are only 3 harnesses that enter under the UHJB, engine sensors, lights, and UHJB to interior. If doing the interior cable it terminates at the PCM which is under the dash right above your left knee when seated. You can see it if you crawl under the dash and look up. A likely point of failure is where the cable pases through the fire wall. And the other likely point is out in the engine bay in one of the individual sensor cable runs.

Just as a point of reference. A repair shop that would even consider looking for this problem would charge on a time and materials rate which means by the hour at the standard labor rate plus any supplies used. There are many cars that go to the J/Y because of electrical problems like this. Finding these things can take a while.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 05:56 PM   #13
gruvn
Junior Member
gruvn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shad Bay, NS
Posts: 23
 

1998 SL2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

OldNuc -
I really appreciate your patience and clarity. I imagine I will need my lovely assistant for this (one to jiggle, one to watch the meter), so I likely won't get to this until next weekend (unless it craps out during the week!).

On that note, I know the car has gotten really hot a few times due to low oil. Is one of these sets of wires near something that would be more exposed to heat (potentially causing melting of insulation)? That may be the most likely culprit.

When I find the problem, I'll let you know. I'm going to keep this bad boy out of the junkyard!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gruvn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gruvn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gruvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 07:09 PM   #14
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

The engine harness is laying on the transmission and bell housing and then runs along the lower back of the block. Heat and a pinch and you have the problem. Dirt roads and rocks are the issue back by the tank. And you definitely need help to be able to do this.

I will watch for further developments.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 08:01 PM   #15
1996SL11.9L
Senior Member
1996SL11.9L has a spectacular aura about1996SL11.9L has a spectacular aura about
 
1996SL11.9L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stouchsburg, PA
Posts: 1,662
 

2002 SL1
Default Re: p1635 has returned

The 5v ground connector would be worth checking also considering the multiple sensor failure. Do not know where it is located yet. (I'm still new to the Saturns and do not know where everything is yet)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to 1996SL11.9L's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help 1996SL11.9L reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
1996SL11.9L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 08:34 PM   #16
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

The PCM is grounded in a couple of spots. By connecting the Negative meter lead directly to the battery the test loop includes the PCM grounds. That is why I specified that hookup in the original post.

FYI the PCM is grounded at one of the top transmission/engine mounting studs, usually the one towards the rear of the car, and at the left rear corner of the block on the back side right below the #4 intake port. The ground wires are either tan or tan/white. There are 2 on the back corner and 2 for auto and 1 for manual transmission cars on the front. This is for Gen-2, Gen 1 and 3 will/may be a bit different.

This could be either a intermittent open circuit or an intermitant short to voltage.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2009, 04:47 AM   #17
1996SL11.9L
Senior Member
1996SL11.9L has a spectacular aura about1996SL11.9L has a spectacular aura about
 
1996SL11.9L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stouchsburg, PA
Posts: 1,662
 

2002 SL1
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The PCM is grounded in a couple of spots. By connecting the Negative meter lead directly to the battery the test loop includes the PCM grounds. That is why I specified that hookup in the original post.

FYI the PCM is grounded at one of the top transmission/engine mounting studs, usually the one towards the rear of the car, and at the left rear corner of the block on the back side right below the #4 intake port. The ground wires are either tan or tan/white. There are 2 on the back corner and 2 for auto and 1 for manual transmission cars on the front. This is for Gen-2, Gen 1 and 3 will/may be a bit different.

This could be either a intermittent open circuit or an intermittent short to voltage.
Yea, with multiple sensor ground points is not looking like the culprit....My Daytona only had 1 sensor ground and was occasionally a problem. (corrosion got under the insulation)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to 1996SL11.9L's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help 1996SL11.9L reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
1996SL11.9L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2009, 09:39 AM   #18
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 63,579
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: p1635 has returned

Actually a ground could be the problem or a single defective sensor. There are 4 possibilities and the associated wiring.

The first step is to be able to manually induce the failure so you can start dividing and isolating teh failing section.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another reason I returned to Saturn... Jamis Astra General 3 01-27-2008 07:36 PM
98 SL2 Fault Code P1635? What is this? C130Flyboy S-Series General 2 08-15-2006 03:54 PM
Just returned from 05 vue service bue05 Vue General 2 10-25-2005 10:18 PM
Code P1635 tuffznails S-Series Tech 1 07-05-2003 10:04 AM
I am returned! saturnotaku General Saturn Discussion 2 08-29-2001 10:03 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.