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Old 09-06-2009, 10:32 PM   #1
dorisSL
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Default hot CPS failure info?

when a CPS begins to fail, does the starter still spin?
or is a no-start when hot with no starter sound most likely a starter?

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 09-06-2009, 11:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorisSL View Post
when a CPS begins to fail, does the starter still spin?
YES. One has nothing to do with the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorisSL View Post
or is a no-start when hot with no starter sound most likely a starter?
Most likely a starter, depending on circumstances. Loose wiring, an old worn out starter are the likely reasons for this situation.

...
*The CPS is the heart of the entire EFI system. No cps = dead EFI system*
*There's more to a/c than just a few cans of refrigerant*
*There's more to brakes than just replacing parts*

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Old 09-07-2009, 07:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

turned out to be the starter. i'd thought it was, but wanted to make sure i had my bases covered before changing it out.

luckily, i had a spare laying around

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 09-07-2009, 08:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorisSL View Post
luckily, i had a spare laying around
Hi Ben! You had a spare starter lying around? Now, that's thinking ahead!

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Old 09-07-2009, 11:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
Hi Ben! You had a spare starter lying around? Now, that's thinking ahead!
last time it went out, i rebuilt it and reinstalled it, and picked one up at the junkyard. rebuilt that one and kept it just in case.
best $15 i've ever spent (other than my ECTS, maybe)

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 09-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

A DIY starter rebuild is far superior to the FLAPS rebuilt. Much cheaper also.

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Old 09-08-2009, 03:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
A DIY starter rebuild is far superior to the FLAPS rebuilt. Much cheaper also.
i should clarify that i didn't do a full rebuild....i just cleaned it really well inside and out and then re-lubed it.

if it goes out anytime soon, i'll buy a rebuild kit and do the brushes as well.

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 09-08-2009, 03:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

The rebuild is new brushes, solenoid, plastic gears, and pinion.

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Old 09-08-2009, 06:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

does that all come in the same kit? and how muh $$$ does that cost?

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 09-08-2009, 07:37 PM   #10
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1998 SC2
Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

you get the parts from the BMW motorcycle parts place. http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/
The D6 starter is the one on the Saturn. Generally all you need is the brush kit unless the gaskets are dried out then you end up with the major kit. This is more of a disassemble, clean, inspect, and lube. Replace bushings and brushes.

Some general FYI for thought before smacking the starter.

The Valeo D6RA series permanent magnet design starter has been known to be fragile to shock and vibration, as well as moisture (water ingress). These elements can cause the magnets to loose adhesion to the field can. Valeo addressed this issue in late 2002 with improved adhesive and thru modification of the magnet contour to allow more adhesive to be in between the magnet and the field housing.

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Old 09-08-2009, 09:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product_p/val-tk.htm
10.95 + shipping

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 09-08-2009, 10:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

Thats it or you can get the one with the 2 gaskets for another 10.00 I think. You need to herd up some synthetic EP-2 grease. My preferred product is Amsoil for the gearbox and bushings. There is no lube in the pinion clutch or the splines. A light dusting of the splines with either dry graphite or mica is OK thoough. If oil happens to get into the pinion clutch it will slip. Probably the hardest part is cleaning the armature and if it is out of round finding someone who knows how to properly turn it down. You do not undercut the mica on a starter. And you chuck it up on the bearing surfaces, not the old centers. With any luck the armature will be just fine and you can wipe it off with acetone and stuff it back in. Find a sheet of fine or extra fine real sand paper so you can bed the brushes. Do not use emery or aluminum oxide paper. Garnet paper is OK.

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Old 09-15-2009, 11:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

quick tip to anyone who decides to go this route - that seller also sells thru iOffer.com, which was cheaper for me.
buying directly through the link Oldnuc posted, they were going to charge me $10.95 for the kit and$10 for shipping, on iOffer, it was $12 for the part and $2.00 for shipping.

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 09-15-2009, 11:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

It is always worth the effort to carefully check prices. You do find a deal now and then.

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Old 09-18-2009, 11:26 PM   #15
dorisSL
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

one more +1 to buying it from Euromotoelectrics via iOffer.com.
i ordered late at night on the 15th, it left their warehouse on the 16th and got to me yesterday on their standard rate shipping.

...
1995 SL, born 12/23/94, manual, WAI 190,500, "Doris"
(I'm Ben, the car is Doris)

you can't mulch at those speeds man, that's too fast

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Old 07-07-2010, 11:25 AM   #16
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info? - plunger thing?

Guys , thanks for great info - from this thread and others, i've narrowed down our problem to be starter - 2002 sc2, 230000 km, click sound but no starter motor turning - ONLY WHEN HOT - when cold, no problem - starts fine -
question - related thread links to youtube videos, in particular one shows how to clean the barrel and plunger attached to the starter - the author indicates that the starter motor lasts forever, but attached barrel/plunger become fouled and cleaning (carb cleaner, toothbrush) and re-=assemble solves the problem - - is this true with all starter motors?, true with saturn starters ? - is ther a name for this barrel/plunger?, can it be purchased new apart from the starter motor?
thanks again for greatr info, and youtube instruction videos
Pete

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Old 07-07-2010, 12:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

That is the solenoid. Cleaning sometimes works. It is only replaceable on some designs of starter.

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Old 07-07-2010, 01:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

Oldnuc, thanks - any hint on how i can know in advance if the solenoid id replaceable on my starter type? - VIN?, model, year, starter part #, picture, etc? , or do I have to tear it out and inspect to verify?
- as an aside, there is a youtube on remove/replace starter from under hood, removing airbox, etc - is this applicable to /02 ac2 auto?
- re-built starter up here is 200.00$, so that's my last resort
thanks, pete

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Old 07-07-2010, 01:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

You can pull the starter from above on the 2000 and up car but it is easier from below for most people.

The only way to tell is by actually looking at the starter and solenoids are not readily available even when replaceable. Take the starter out and try cleaning the solenoid armature and the inside of the solenoid.

If you can find an alternator/starter rebuild shop they can rebuild it cheaper than the price of a new one. They have parts but usually will not just sell parts.

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Old 07-07-2010, 01:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: hot CPS failure info?

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=156102

New starters on ebay, $60 (have not checked shipping, though). Low Saturn seems to be happy with his purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmpk View Post
- as an aside, there is a youtube on remove/replace starter from under hood, removing airbox, etc - is this applicable to /02 ac2 auto?
richpin videos Starter is in there somewhere

I like Low's idea to use intake manifold studs to secure the starter - makes reinstalling the starter much easier.

...
...Wait, what, I actually won that eBay auction?
Guess I now (12/2008) own a 1998 SL2, silver, 5 spd :p
102k @ purchase, now 167k
And now (7/2010), a Craigslist 1997 SC2, white, 5 spd

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