Magazine reviews of Saturn vehicles

[Joe Mama]

Other than consumer reports, has any magazine ever given Saturn a positive review? All anyone ever talks about is the cheap interior styling, the confusing or boring exterior styling, the lack of performance, etc. I am sick of it! This has little more to do with the resentment that the rest of the car industry has for Saturn because we are doing what is said could never be done. We've taken the money out of the equasion and focused on the customer's needs, while selling a QUALITY vehicle at a FAIR price. There are admittedly some quirks with many Saturn vehicles, the ION imparticular, but the driving experience speaks for itself. I sell Saturns and had the opportunity to drive several competitive vehicles at the ride and drive, and the Ion stood head and shoulders above the Jetta, Civic, Focus, and Corolla (although the Corolla was a VERY close second). The Jetta is an overpriced riding lawnmower with no shoulder space and no trunk, the Civic has the flimsy skin of a Pepsi can (ever hear of the "thumb test") the Focus had the most comfortable seats of any of the cars, but somehow Ford managed to reincarnate the Pinto, and the Corolla; well, I liked it, no complaints, except it doesn't have polymer panels, so it will eventually rust. I think that the editorial staff of such magazines as Automobile and Car and Driver are in the pockets of other automakers, and if they can stop anyone from going to a Saturn store to take a test drive, then they've done their job. They know as well as any Saturn sales consultant that if a guest stops in and gets the Saturn treatment, the car is often secondary, and that they cannot stand. My rant is done, any feedback is appreciated.

[Bigsmoker]

well i have 2 saturns a 94 sl1 with 105,000 and a 2000 sc2 with 39,000 My ex had a Honda civic . Saturn is years ahead in rustproofing and dent resistance. While i have never experienced any oil problems in my cars many owners have with saturns. Not many forgein car owners mention these types of problems. The saturn interior is well spartan to say the least however the 2000 sc2 leather is beautiful. Parts are certainly cheaper as is service on the saturn. I have always owned GM Cars but i have also owned mercedes and toyota and a honda as far as reliable engines (maintained well or not) GM may never be able to compete. I work in Quality control for a GM part supplier and they will be the first ones to complain loudly when a part is not visually pleasing to them. Makes me cringe when i hear people speak of alternators and wiper motors and transmissions and oil leaks ect ect big time problems that they seem to have trouble getting right. Most of the techs that post hear seem knowledgable. There are many out there that are not. There are many circumstances where a diagnostic computer will not set a code for a particular problem and if it doesnt i can almost guarantee you the service department will tell you everything is ok. I drove a C/K 4 wheel drice for years that developed a bad idle they replaced everything under the sun including the gages under warranty . After the warranty expired i took the truck to an old timer who fixed the problem within a few hours by replacing the distributor shaft. No codes no electronics must not be a problem. I belive Saturns are good cars for the price . If you buy a saturn you should expect reasonable reliability with care. I would also expect some problems. These cars are not built by skilled people. Ive been to the plants Ive talked to the people for the most part they are union people making 60,000-80,000 per year and screwing off like many other people do at there job from tome to time me included. My 94 saturn i replaced the alternator at 50,000 miles it truth that really is unacceptable . Burning oil at the rate of a quart every 3 thousand miles really is unacceptable .It may be within what the company deems acceptable to avoid recalls and expensive warranty repairs ect.. Oil may be cheap but it is unacceptable and there is no excuse for that. building engines with known bad rings and seals for many many years is unacceptable. Not fixing cars because they have 50,000 miles on them before this develops and you know about the problem is just bad business. I myself never experienced these problems with a saturn nor do i personally know anyone that has but you sure do see alot of it on this forum and others. ill keep my fingers crossed the 2000 doesnt develop these problems. In summary if i spend 17,000 for the fully loaded saturn or 20,000 plus for the civic I expect to get what i paid for. Cheap is cheap for a reason and expensive is expensive for a reason. i spent 53,000 on a cadillac and have no problems i spent 65,000 on a 300 e mercedes and had no problem . YMMV

[2SL's&1SC]

Didn't read it completely but this months Car & Driver didn't have very many good things to say about the Ion.

[Joe Mama]

While i have never experienced any oil problems in my cars many owners have with saturns.

I owned GM Cars but i have also owned mercedes and toyota and a honda as far as reliable engines (maintained well or not) GM may never be able to compete. I work in Quality control for a GM part supplier and they will be the first ones to complain loudly when a part is not visually pleasing to them.

Ive talked to the people for the most part they are union people making 60,000-80,000 per year and screwing off like many other people do at there job from tome to time me included. My 94 saturn i replaced the alternator at 50,000 miles it truth that really is unacceptable . Burning oil at the rate of a quart every 3 thousand miles really is unacceptable .It may be within what the company deems acceptable to avoid recalls and expensive warranty repairs ect..

I myself never experienced these problems with a saturn nor do i personally know anyone that has but you sure do see alot of it on this forum and others.

Cheap is cheap for a reason and expensive is expensive for a reason. i spent 53,000 on a cadillac and have no problems i spent 65,000 on a 300 e mercedes and had no problem .


That is an interesting sentiment, but why on earth would you go from a Caddy, to a Benz, to a Saturn? Did you work for Enron?

Just because you are a lazy worker who slacks off, don't suggest Saturn workers are not "Skilled" as you call it. These cars are made by people, not machines. All cars have problems, no matter if you toot your own friggin horn by driving a Benz or a S-series.

Anyhow, you do get what you pay for, and it sounds like you have had great luck with you Saturns, I've had 4 without problems; however using the anecdotal evidence of other posts to suggest Saturn is anything other than a solid, reliable vehicle is silly. (Do you have a bumper sticker on your Caddy that reads "my other car is an SC2"?)

[Qlara]

Originally posted by 2SL's&1SC
Didn't read it completely but this months Car & Driver didn't have very many good things to say about the Ion.

I won't be surprised if ION didn't get good review from C&D.
C&D magazine is mostly Performance-oriented in reviewing cars, where ION is totally lack of.

However; for practicality and cheap to own and maintenance purposes, I think ION may have scored some points in this area.

[saturnmanSC2]

About waht was said about the original post about how evryone hates Saturn. im sick of it to. When i talk to anyone. i mean anyone and i mention i have a saturn i usually get "why would you buy such a ****y car" or "you paid that much for a saturn " or i just get the old

Why is this. Oh yeah i also get "thats a girls car"
I CANT STAND IT. (by the way no offense to girls). It may be that im in high school buut i get noooo support from my peers. And to tell the truth. I wou;ld never have bought one if I had the choice. I was simply walking through a local dealer back lot and saw a little green coupe (95 sc2) that i thought looked cool. and it was 5 speed. That was enough to sell me. But were does the "Saturns are ****" theme come from. I mean yeah its no benz but its an inexpensive american car and its a lot less expensive that lets say a civic of the same year. So anyway just thought id put out my frustration about people hating saturns. fewww thanks i needed that steam off

[Bigsmoker]

See this is the problem when you work for a certain place or sell a certain car you like to belive there are no problems. I personally have owned all of the cars i mentioned because i like to see if you really do get more problems by buying a cheaper car. I sold them all because my needs changed through the years and now i drive 40,000 thousand miles a year and whether i can afford to buy the gas or not i would rather not if i dont have too. As i said I personally have been happy with the saturn if i wasnt i wouldnt have bought another. If i experienced the oil leaks or head gasket leaks or anything that GM knows exists with these cars and had to pay for the repair myself I would have stayed far away the second time. As far as GM people being skilled, They make the engines, they made the alternators and that is clearly where the problems are with saturns and that speaks volumes to me. I am sure individually there are skilled individuals that work for them . I am also sure they have their fair share of persons less skilled. Like I said I see it all the time at the saginaw and hamtramack facilities Saturn will continue to sell because people need transportation they can afford. Reliability is reasonable. With my experience thus far I would buy a third saturn. Look at this board though and it is amazing to see the problems with the LS series and the Vue series. people experiencing the same problems with 2000 s models that were problems in 92 s models. Apparently no company officials must read these boards. Im not bashing anyone that sells these cars or decides to try their luck and buy one i have 2 as i said and have had good luck. I think it just is odd when people get upset that a magazine or indepedent reviewer says that honda toyota BMW ect.. are better than saturn and then people come undone. I have driven them all and Saturn is by far the least well put together. It is also the cheapest so in a way i expect that to be the case. Saturn is an inexpensive car manufactured that way. Expect trouble and when you get good ones like i and many others have you can laugh all the way to the bank just dont get upset when someones says it is of lower quality than a more expensive forgein car because it is just that

[SW2Muck]

I will admit, Saturns aren't always the most refined vehicles out there. There are cars that are quieter, and smoother than a Saturn. But as far as I'm concerned, the only people who knock them are the ones who've never owned one! Now, my car does burn oil, (all the highway driving I do, probably does not help it), but it does it a helluva lot less than my old car! And plus, its almost 8 years old and I bought it used, so I don't expect perfection! But that is one drawback to what has been an enjoyable ride so far with my SW2. It being a small wagon, it gives me the economy and agility of a smaller car, but at the same time gives me plenty of room to move my stuff, as being a college student, I'm constantly moving here and there. Its power and brakes have proved to be more than capable in any driving situation I've had, not to mention it feels just as solid as many Japanese cars, I've been in! I don't have to worry about dents or rust like other folks do. Other than the oil burning, it does everything else well, and I haven't had a thing done to it. I expect it to go well over 150K! Not to mention the Saturn buying experience is great, they cut the crap! My Saturn is what it is, good transportation, cheap and reliable. At this point in my life, thats what I need, I don't need a big fancy car!

[Bigsmoker]

well said Andy

[eRic 02sc2]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Other than consumer reports, has any magazine ever given Saturn a positive review? All anyone ever talks about is the cheap interior styling, the confusing or boring exterior styling, the lack of performance, etc. I am sick of it! This has little more to do with the resentment that the rest of the car industry has for Saturn because we are doing what is said could never be done. We've taken the money out of the equasion and focused on the customer's needs, while selling a QUALITY vehicle at a FAIR price. There are admittedly some quirks with many Saturn vehicles, the ION imparticular, but the driving experience speaks for itself. I sell Saturns and had the opportunity to drive several competitive vehicles at the ride and drive, and the Ion stood head and shoulders above the Jetta, Civic, Focus, and Corolla (although the Corolla was a VERY close second). The Jetta is an overpriced riding lawnmower with no shoulder space and no trunk, the Civic has the flimsy skin of a Pepsi can (ever hear of the "thumb test") the Focus had the most comfortable seats of any of the cars, but somehow Ford managed to reincarnate the Pinto, and the Corolla; well, I liked it, no complaints, except it doesn't have polymer panels, so it will eventually rust. I think that the editorial staff of such magazines as Automobile and Car and Driver are in the pockets of other automakers, and if they can stop anyone from going to a Saturn store to take a test drive, then they've done their job. They know as well as any Saturn sales consultant that if a guest stops in and gets the Saturn treatment, the car is often secondary, and that they cannot stand. My rant is done, any feedback is appreciated.

Car and Driver likes Saturn coupes from what I've read over the last 10 years. dunno about the ION yet. Automobile hated Saturn in general and seems to nit-pick and gripe about everything about them. I stopped subscribing to Automobile. Automobile is definately bought and paid for with those "special suppliments" and "great drives" issues. Automobile didn't even do any instrumented testing of cars! they'd publish "manufacturers data" which is useless. Car and Driver tests and measures the numbers that they publish. Even though Automoblie and Car and Driver have offices in Ann Arbor (Michgan. about 35 miles from Detroit), they are worlds apart.

[eRic 02sc2]

Originally posted by Qlara
I won't be surprised if ION didn't get good review from C&D.
C&D magazine is mostly Performance-oriented in reviewing cars, where ION is totally lack of.

Yup. You got a problem wit' dat?

[thatjerryguy]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
… the Civic has the flimsy skin of a Pepsi can (ever hear of the "thumb test")…

My little sister had a Honda Civic. I'm not sure what Honda made it out of, but a Pepsi can would have been an improvemnet.

[Jeff P]

What is with these comments about Civic body panels? What point are you guys trying to make? All exterior sheet metal, on basically any car, is sheet metal. By definition it's like 1/16" to 1/8" of an inch thick. Very flimsy. Don't think that "solid" cars like a Benz E-class are cruising around with 1/2" thick body panels. My fiance has a '01 Civic EX coupe, 70,000 miles, zero problems. It has had nothing more than the scheduled maintenance. The engine still runs great, tranny works great, and the doors still close with a solid thump. No rattles, no nothing. Not a drop of oil consumed between changes. No bad alternators. It is practically good-as-new. If calling it a "pepsi can" is the biggest critique you can make, I'd say Saturn has some major lessons to learn from Honda.

Think about it, remarks about the Civic like that are exactly the same kinds of remarks that are made about Saturns that you guys are complaining about!

jeff

[Scratch1SL]

[

B]Think about it, remarks about the Civic like that are exactly the same kinds of remarks that are made about Saturns that you guys are complaining about! [/B]

Well said Jeff! I think it's natural to see this turf protection for lack of a better word because Brand Loyalists sometimes lose their objectivity and journalists are just part of this picture. Let's not give too much credence to such biased views ... that being said... all cars have their strengths and weaknesses... people buy to satisfy different needs and for different reasons.

[McSaturn]

Car & Driver has a serious hate for Saturn. I guess if my income was at their level, I'd be looking down my nose at Saturns from my $60,000.00 import.

Case in point, if you have this months Car & Driver, look at this months "Best Letter" in the Back Fires (readers letters). This months winner basically slams GM for putting money into Saturn while Oldsmobile went downhill.

If you read the performance review of the ION and how it compared to other vehicles in its class, you'd think the review would be good. If the same car had a Mazda or Honda badge on it I'd bet Car & Driver would name this car of the year.

They have disliked Saturn from day 1! My subscription will not be renewed.

[2SL's&1SC]

It wasn't just the one guy at Car & Driver that didn't like the Ion. All three of the people that wrote their opinions in the counterpoint section didn't like it either. According to these guys " This is probably the most disappointing all-new American car in a decade."

[JanCan]

Before I bought my LW300 five months ago, I checked out all the magazine and net articles I could find on wagons. I remember picking up either Road & Track or Car & Driver in a Chapters and it had a piece "We rate the Wagons". They compared 4, none of them the Saturn, all 4 more expensive than the Saturn. Scanned down to the bottom line - they sequenced them in exact order of price - number 1 rating was the most expensive car. What good is that. I didn't buy the mag.

I think the car critics have a hard time filling 5000 words about an average car. They can gush about a 70 grand card and they can flame a cheap beater, but what can the say about the car that falls midway? So they tend to compare it to some of the luxury rides they have had, and the Saturn comes out looking bad. They ignore that you could buy 2 Saturns for the same price. They have to sell magazines month after month, so of course they have to present "spicy".

Responding to postings made by, shall I say, the younger demographic, who get hassled about their Saturn because it's deemed "not cool", I sympathize (saturnmanSC2, especially). It's hard to convince scoffers of the practicality of a car, or the exceptional buying experience, or dent resistance, when they have all been programmed by their peers to rate the coolness of a car in a specific sequence. People who rate tires like this "the lower the sidewall, the better", exhaust systems "more tips is better" and "the best mufflers are the ones that amplify". To you young Saturn owners I say this: Send Saturn a letter and tell them why your demographic scoffs the Saturn. It's a big problem that's been bothering them for years because there's no real logic to it.

Bigsmoker, I join the others in taking offence with your "These cars are not built by skilled people". I could rant for 3 more pages about how dead wrong you are to generalize like that.

.

[saturnPr!de]

Originally posted by saturnmanSC2
About waht was said about the original post about how evryone hates Saturn. im sick of it to. When i talk to anyone. i mean anyone and i mention i have a saturn i usually get "why would you buy such a ****y car" or "you paid that much for a saturn " or i just get the old

Why is this. Oh yeah i also get "thats a girls car"
I CANT STAND IT. (by the way no offense to girls). It may be that im in high school buut i get noooo support from my peers. And to tell the truth. I wou;ld never have bought one if I had the choice. I was simply walking through a local dealer back lot and saw a little green coupe (95 sc2) that i thought looked cool. and it was 5 speed. That was enough to sell me. But were does the "Saturns are ****" theme come from. I mean yeah its no benz but its an inexpensive american car and its a lot less expensive that lets say a civic of the same year. So anyway just thought id put out my frustration about people hating saturns. fewww thanks i needed that steam off

i get the same thing, and i also wasnt looking to buy a saturn i test drove a sl2 at a dodge place and fell in love and i tell people i am going to soupe up my saturn, they just look at me and laugh but ill tell you what i would rather drive a saturn then all those damn, slow civics out there also i was reading some magazine during my break and this guy was bashing the ion and how the interchangeble dash and door things are interchangeble he called these "gimikie" this saturn owner wrote in and started going off on the guy hes said " the ion is a much better car then the stupid focus that you love and adore so much..." (sorry to any focus people) but yeah i love my saturn and i got SATURN PRIDE

[thatjerryguy]

The bottom line is that unless a car has a specific nameplate (usually BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota or Nissan) it's just not any good.

And BTW, Motor Trend named the Infiniti G35 and Automobile named the Nissan 350ZX their cars of the year. I guess they didn't notice the overly cheap, low rent interiors in these cars. I realize Nissan had to skimp somewhere, but it makes you wonder where else they cut corners…

Speaking of which, go to

http://www.just-auto.com/news_detail...rt=39728&app=1

for the first, official photo of the 2004 Nissan Maxima. All I can ask Nissan is "Why'd you even bother?".

[Jeff P]

Ok first of all, the auto mags DO praise American cars when it's deserved. Remember the Malibu getting Motor Trend car of the year when it came out? Or the Corvette the following year? PT Cruiser, Thunderbird? How about Car and Driver placing the Intrigue ahead of the Camry and Taurus in it's first comparison test? The consistent good reviews the Focus gets? You get my point.

Second, does it occur to anyone that the mags heap praise on BMW, Audi, Honda, and Toyota because they make awesome cars? Ok sure you can call Hondas and Toyotas "appliances", but they aim for a point in the market and hit it dead on balls. It's no coincidence that they're always the top selling cars.

As for the G35, they gave it car of the year because it provides the size, performance, and features of cars literally costing twice it's price. I'd hardly call the interior "overly cheap, low rent". I rode in one two days ago. No it's not a 330i or A4, but it ain't $40k either. I also love lines like this: "but it makes you wonder where else they cut corners… " What is that supposed to mean? God if that's the standard, all our Saturns must be doomed to short, trouble-plagued lives. oh wait, most of our Saturns have been great, reliable cars, despite the frankly chintzy interiors.

jeff