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#1 | |
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[drupal=3223]Roger Penske's Saturn Play is a Stroke of Genius, Creates a "Post-Modern" Auto Company[/drupal] Quote:
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2008 Saturn Outlook XR 2005 VUE Red Line 2002 L300 (sold) |
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#2 | |
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eRic 02sc2 DR SCCA Solo 2001,2002 1st DSP WHRRi 2007,2010 Fun Run 1st DR SCCA 2008 Triathalon 1st PF DR SCCA Solo 2009 2nd ST DR SCCA Solo 2010 1st ST Crutchfield: pkeqe-6j8e3-d2qqe |
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#3 | |
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![]() Actually, I don't think alot of folks will know the difference and the majority of potential customers won't care. The product is different from anything else, and not a rebadged car that someone else already sells here. I think this is a good strategy. If someone else offers the same/very similar product that's going to hinder your sales.
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2007 Ion 2 Quad Coupe 5-speed manual 183K miles *gone* 2007 Chevy Equinox LT 198K miles 2018 Chrysler Pacifica Touring L 56K miles |
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#4 | |
Advanced Member
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Count me as not optimistic. My buying of a saturn WAS a patriotic thing for me.
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A Saturn owner since 10/91. '92 SC, '91 SL2, 95 SW1, '06 ION3 other car- '02 Expedition 5.4L |
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#5 | |
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Did the marketing help its success? No doubt, but marketing would have failed had the car been so bad as they pretend it was. I suggest they go back and read what their colleague auto journalists said about the car in the time before they go around telling about how bad the s-series was. |
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#6 |
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Sival:That's not revisionism that's combatting the myth that Saturn boosters like to promote that some how it reinvented the automobile.
They're trying to balance the story by dismantling the myth that the S Series were some kind of "wunderkar" on the order of the Model T and the VW Beetle. Car and Driver said that Saturn almost met it's target. And that's where it stayed. By 1996 CR was recommending the Cavalier [reworked for 95] and not the Saturn S Series. The S was lengineered in the mid 80s and sold until 2002 as essentially the same car. And the Japanese imports went through several generations in that time, each getting better than the last. The S Series was "highly competitive" with Japanese cars designed in the 80s and available in the early 90s. After that it was left behind in fit, finish, NVH and becoming known for it's love of motor oil and other, say, unique characteristics. The S Series:Good, simple cars, honestly sold. Nothing wrong with that. Something to be proud of. I love mine, but does it nothing better than my 86 Olds Calais did or my 99 Cavalier. Saturn was not the second coming of the automobile. |
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#7 | |
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BTW, according to this, the Saturn S-series was recommended by Consumer Reports from 1992 to 1995 and it topped the list of recommended small cars in 1993. |
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#8 |
Senior Member
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I recall the L-Series garnering very good reviews when it came out and being named Motorweek's best midsize car in their Driver's Choice awards. Unfortunately the L-Series, like the S-Series, was allowed to wither on the vine while the competition improved and left them in a cloud of dust.
As for Penske creating a brand new, post-modern car company, let's wait and see what he offers before crowning him a genius. ![]() |
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#9 |
Member
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Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 178
2001 SC1
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I would much rather have a 2000 SL2 than a 2000 Corolla. I had one as a rental car in 2001 and it was the biggest pile of junk I've ever driven, a saturn would out perform it in every single way.
On the original article I doubt that I would buy a rebadged Renault. They don't have the best record for building quality cars, and I would much rather buy an American car. It would be nice to provide a few more jobs here in the states where national unemployment is over 10%. |
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#10 |
Member
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Location: Danbury, CT
Posts: 163
1993 SL2
1995 SL2
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Call me pessimistic, but I just don't see how people can call this genius or get excited over it. "Oh, you mean all the new Saturn's are going to be just rebadged foreign cars?!?" Give me a break. I have and always will love Saturn.. And I will always maintain the point of view that it was highly competitive with the imports. But if Roger Penske just wants to rebadge cars, he better keep Saturn a domestic company.. Otherwise, I won't be buying one past the model year when this change takes place. With talks like this sometimes I can't help but wish that they would just discontinue Saturn like they did with Oldsmobile and will be doing with Pontiac.. That way it could go out with some dignity and we could remember how great it was; not look around and see a bunch of Samsung and Renault cars driving around with Saturn emblems (which in the long run I don't think will make Saturn last as a company anyway).
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1993 Saturn SL2 (162,271 miles): The One and Only 1995 Saturn SL2 (153,800 miles) 2003 Chevrolet Cavalier LS (150,500 miles) Support the American auto industry! Long Live General Motors. |
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#11 |
Member
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Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 374
2008 Astra XR
2005 ION-2 Sedan
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I can hear the nails being hammered into Saturn's coffin right now. This has got the be the stupidest thing that I've heard from the industry about Saturn thus far.
Maybe Penske is a genius for buying the Saturn name to turn a quick profit with cheap cars ![]()
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My audio system thread, how to replace speakers: http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137456 2008 Astra 3 door XR, 5-speed MT Black Sapphire, custom audio system |
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#12 | |
Master Member
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,527
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The reason Saturn was left behind in fit and finish and NVH toward the end of the S-Series' life cycle was because of one word - profit. John Smith used this as justification for his decision to hold back money for Saturn in the mid/late '90s when the company wanted to develop a people-mover (along the lines of the CV1) and a six-cylinder SL3 model. With respect to Motor Trend and Angus McKenzie, I wouldn't call this a stroke of genius so much as a second chance for Saturn, since under Penske Automotive, it won't have to deal with Chevy constantly horning in at the resource trough. If Roger Penske can get Saturn into the black and keep it there continuously, then it's clear that the problem lay at the RenCen's doorstep with the old GM's upper management. ![]() ![]()
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No more Saturns! :( '11 & '15 Subaru Forester; '15 Nissan Altima |
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#13 |
Master Member
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Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 7,030
2006 VUE Red Line
2007 SKY
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It's becoming painfully clear that Penske is going to use Saturn's retail facilities to sell whatever imported products he can re-badge as a Saturn.
Lately Jill Lajdziak has been unusually quiet... She must be "Re-Thinking" a new ad campaign how she's going to convince Saturn owners to buy a non-US manufactured car. The Samsung cars are Korean built and heavily based on Nissan models. Two are based on the Maxima/Altima chassis, and one based on the Sentra chassis. IMO Samsung cars have similar quality and performance a Daewoo car. IMO they will be a few clicks below the class leading cars from Honda and Toyota. They will be just "good enough". Deja vu... ![]()
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2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11 |
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#14 | |
New Member
![]() Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 8
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I hoping to find an e-mail address where I could write a generic "PLEEEEASE buy the Spring Hill factory" letter, or convince him that the Shelby/Tipton/Fayette County area in SW Tennessee is an excellent place to build a new Penske/Saturn auto assembly plant. -- Cybertronian. ![]() |
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#15 |
Master Member
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Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 7,030
2006 VUE Red Line
2007 SKY
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Every Saturn owner would like nothing better than for Penske to buy Spring Hill and start production on a small car and small CUV.
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2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11 |
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#16 |
Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northeast
Posts: 423
2005 ION-2 Sedan
1996 SC2
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It certainly looks like this is not getting Saturn owners excited. If we don't get excited, think about the average consumer out there who does not even know what a Saturn is.
PENSKE: BUILD A QUALITY CAR IN THE US or you're going to end up just like the current Saturn.....wait, maybe I should take that back. After all, uncle Sam will bail them out and give them bonuses for failing.... |
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#17 |
Member
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Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin
Posts: 221
1996 SL
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I too fondly reminisce about what was once an American Car - engineered, built, and sold in America. However, for an American company to compete in a world market, it has to play in a world market. There is some merit to what Penske is doing. I work in manufacturing (machinist). What constantly drives efficiency in our company (we also supply to several automotive manufacturers) is the fact that we are only one vendor among many who competes for contracts to sell product to their company. The automotive industry has historically always owned the manufacturing, engineering, distribution, and sales networks. The only pressure toward efficiency they felt was the limited competition that existed between the few surviving big car companies, and the import market cleaned our clocks on that. Penske is trying to introduce the same market pressures to worldwide auto manufacturers that other branches of manufacturing have had to deal with for years. Whether he has the clout to do that remains to be seen.
Years ago, companies like Sears, Roebuck, and Co., Montgomery Ward, etc. built huge empires because they owned the sales and distribution networks, and bought exclusive rights to sell goods from selected manufacturers. Companies like David Bradley and others grew exponentially under this symbiotic relationship. We all know what happened to Sears and Wards, but the foreign market played a large part in dissolving their empires as well. What if Penske can use the advantages of his newly-owned market share to force manufacturers worldwide to compete to sell product, made to 'Saturn' specifications, in a Saturn (Penske) owned market? Roger Penske did not arrive at his station in life through naivety. He has proven track record (pun intended) in business. He's a smart guy. The fortunes in today's business world are mostly made by owning brands, not manufacturing facilities. Good for Roger. What remains to be seen is how it will be good for the American consumer. Think Wal-mart -- great idea and company under Sam Walton. Now that Sam has gone, public opinion is failing (for reasons we all know). What kind of company will Roger make of Saturn? We all know that Roger will make money on this. The survival of his newly owned 'brand' depends on consumer opinion of his product. The question is, does he want the brand to survive, or just Roger to survive?
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-------- Nels Manitowoc WI 1996 SL, 5 Speed manual ╠╬╝ |
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#18 |
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There has been alot skepticism being thrown around in this thread about Penske's goals for Saturn and I must admit I share alot of people's concerns. IMO the only thing Roger has in mine for Saturn is to use the dealerships as a distribution point for whatever 'flavor of the month' he decides to sell. As I mentioned in another thread I'm not enamored with any of Samsung's or Renault's vehicles. I've been actively looking for replacements for my SL2 in the next couple years and judging by the initial looks neither Samsung nor Renault would be cross shopped on my list no matter what badge they displayed. If I had my pick I would've chosen Citroen over either two car companies previously named.
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#19 | |
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Posts: 26
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#20 | |
Master Member
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Don't get me wrong: these cars were honest, reliable, sold fairly and with enthusiasm and one could hardly get past the thought and energy and optimism with which they were designed and built. And they were cleverly sold and became beloved by their owners. The replacement ION and the L Series were: take engine from column A a platform from column B, transmission from column C. People fell in live with the s Series because it was built to a purpose and an ideal not a set of specs cooked up my some GM Central bean counter. The affection I felt for the S series was immediate. The ION had to grow on me. Big difference. |
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