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Old 05-31-2009, 05:18 PM   #1
SaturnGirl02
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Default SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

My '02 SC2 turns over but will not start. It shifts out of park and into any other gear without holding the brake down or pushing the button on the shifter, and the key is difficult to take out and will not turn into the regular off position. It has 80,000 miles on it and has had no issues in the time that I have had it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as I have no idea what is wrong with it. Thanks so much!

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Old 05-31-2009, 06:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

Welcome to Saturnfans!

You may have two issues, one with starting and running while the other may be ignition lock cylinder related. You may be able to try using the spare key if you have one otherwise its recommended to have one made by Saturn and try it before determining that its a worn out lock cylinder. Then Saturn may be the best choice to at least configure a new lock cylinder with the original keys to match. The lack of engine firing up may be a simple cps failure.

The engine turning over but never firing up may be related to the crank position sensor (CPS) as long as you don't see the security light flashing in the speedometer or tach. The security light flashing would mean the factory anti-theft deterrent system is preventing engine running by disablng the fuel pump. No fuel pump = no engine run. Determining a faulty cps is by way of observation - the spark from the ignition system is observed. Remove the spark plug wires, noting the firing order carefully, from the coils and have someone crank the engine over so you can watch for expected sparks across the coil towers. A lack of sparks usually means a failed cps as the only other failure would be the ignition module that the two ignition coils mount onto. The cps is mounted behind and above the starter with one 10mm bolt. You can buy it from any auto store stocking it.

Not mentioning mileage may also mean a tune-up is due; spark plugs, oil, oil filter, etc..

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Old 05-31-2009, 06:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

Two preliminary tests, before we go further:

Fuel - Turn HVAC fan, radio, etc. OFF, make sure it's fairly quiet, and turn the key to RUN (or as near as you can estimate, given your ignition key/switch issue). You should hear a faint "whrrr" of a motor behind you. That's the fuel pump priming the system.

Spark - Remove the bolt (I wanna say 8mm head, maybe 10mm) holding the clip that holds the #1 and #4 spark plug wires in place on that coil. Unplug those two spark plug wires and reinstall the bolt. If necessary, take the clip off the wires and run the bolt through it (with the wires unplugged), to make sure the bolt tightens down. Have an assistant turn the key to START while you observe under the hood. You should see spark jumping between the two exposed coil towers.

Given what appears to be an ignition key/switch issue, here's another question: when you turn the key to RUN, do the dash warning lights (oil, battery, SES, Service "Wrench", etc.) come on?

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Old 05-31-2009, 07:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Welcome to Saturnfans!

You may have two issues, one with starting and running while the other may be ignition lock cylinder related. You may be able to try using the spare key if you have one otherwise its recommended to have one made by Saturn and try it before determining that its a worn out lock cylinder. Then Saturn may be the best choice to at least configure a new lock cylinder with the original keys to match. The lack of engine firing up may be a simple cps failure.

The engine turning over but never firing up may be related to the crank position sensor (CPS) as long as you don't see the security light flashing in the speedometer or tach. The security light flashing would mean the factory anti-theft deterrent system is preventing engine running by disablng the fuel pump. No fuel pump = no engine run. Determining a faulty cps is by way of observation - the spark from the ignition system is observed. Remove the spark plug wires, noting the firing order carefully, from the coils and have someone crank the engine over so you can watch for expected sparks across the coil towers. A lack of sparks usually means a failed cps as the only other failure would be the ignition module that the two ignition coils mount onto. The cps is mounted behind and above the starter with one 10mm bolt. You can buy it from any auto store stocking it.

Not mentioning mileage may also mean a tune-up is due; spark plugs, oil, oil filter, etc..
The 'security' light is on (but not flashing), and I have never seen it on before- I am sure this has something to do with it not starting as I know it shuts off the fuel pump, but I poured fuel in the throttle body and it still wouldn't start. I got in an accident last night and this is when all of this started (the rear driver's side fender and the door were hit, and it was glancing; not something that I can see to cause the car not to start, especially since I chased the guy who hit me a mile and a half till he wrecked his own vehicle and I was able to pull over and get his tag number and call the cops).

I keep up with the car; I change the oil and oil filter ever 3,000 miles and have changed the spark plugs when I got the car (end of February).

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Old 05-31-2009, 07:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

1-GOOD for you, chasing down the hit and run coward. Just be careful as this economy has affected many people that would otherwise act differently.

2-The security light staying on or flashing during start is not allowing you to fire up the engine. This has to be taken care of first before killing the battery in starting attempts.

Normally, with the ignition key turned to the ON/RUN position, all the panel lights up as part of the lamp test as well as the electronics self tests. This takes a few seconds where all the lights turn off leaving the seat belt, oil, battery, DRL, and parking brake lights on. The factory security light/icon should be off also. If it stays on and never turns off you have a problem. This may be fixed by pulling off the battery negative cable (you lose the radio presets) or the IGN fuses in the fuse box, for 15-seconds. Hopefully the body control module (BCM) resets itself and extinguishes the security light. The BCM controls the factory anti-theft system in coordination with the engine control module (ECM/engine computer). Because computers runs the engine and all the lighting as well as cruise control, etc., there's only so much you can do before resorting to Saturn. If this reset doesn't work then there's one more program to try before towing the car to Saturn; a bcm relearn that basically has the electronics talk to each other for 3(three) 10-minute cycles before the security system resynchronizes to allow normal starting. Search the How-to library below by using the Forum Jump to find the How-to tab. Its a 30-minute relearn routine you can perform that allows the computers to work again. It sometimes happens, maybe from the hit (bump) and run, upsetting the electronics (they are delicate sometimes). Others have performed the relearn routine with success.

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Old 05-31-2009, 07:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
1-GOOD for you, chasing down the hit and run coward. Just be careful as this economy has affected many people that would otherwise act differently.

2-The security light staying on or flashing during start is not allowing you to fire up the engine. This has to be taken care of first before killing the battery in starting attempts.

Normally, with the ignition key turned to the ON/RUN position, all the panel lights up as part of the lamp test as well as the electronics self tests. This takes a few seconds where all the lights turn off leaving the seat belt, oil, battery, DRL, and parking brake lights on. The factory security light/icon should be off also. If it stays on and never turns off you have a problem. This may be fixed by pulling off the battery negative cable (you lose the radio presets) or the IGN fuses in the fuse box, for 15-seconds. Hopefully the body control module (BCM) resets itself and extinguishes the security light. The BCM controls the factory anti-theft system in coordination with the engine control module (ECM/engine computer). Because computers runs the engine and all the lighting as well as cruise control, etc., there's only so much you can do before resorting to Saturn. If this reset doesn't work then there's one more program to try before towing the car to Saturn; a bcm relearn that basically has the electronics talk to each other for 3(three) 10-minute cycles before the security system resynchronizes to allow normal starting. Search the How-to library below by using the Forum Jump to find the How-to tab. Its a 30-minute relearn routine you can perform that allows the computers to work again. It sometimes happens, maybe from the hit (bump) and run, upsetting the electronics (they are delicate sometimes). Others have performed the relearn routine with success.

Thanks I will go try that.

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Old 05-31-2009, 08:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

Does anyone happen to know, while I try the bcm relearn, if it would be affected by a cable problem between the shifter and the ignition? I know the park-neutral switch is working correctly because the engine wonít turn over unless itís in park or neutral. However, you can still grab the shifter and put it in any position you want without pushing in the button on the shifter or pushing the brake pedal. Therefore I am assuming there must be a problem between the ignition and the shifter outside of the security light problem, or is that in some way connected with the security problem?

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Old 05-31-2009, 08:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

im not sure that its in the how-to library,

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=130832

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Old 05-31-2009, 08:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

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Originally Posted by rc1488 View Post
im not sure that its in the how-to library,
Thank you.

Does anyone happen to know, while I try the bcm relearn, if it would be affected by a cable problem between the shifter and the ignition? I know the park-neutral switch is working correctly because the engine wonít turn over unless itís in park or neutral. However, you can still grab the shifter and put it in any position you want without pushing in the button on the shifter or pushing the brake pedal. Therefore I am assuming there must be a problem between the ignition and the shifter outside of the security light problem, or is that in some way connected with the security problem?

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Old 05-31-2009, 08:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnGirl02 View Post
Does anyone happen to know, while I try the bcm relearn, if it would be affected by a cable problem between the shifter and the ignition? I know the park-neutral switch is working correctly because the engine wonít turn over unless itís in park or neutral. However, you can still grab the shifter and put it in any position you want without pushing in the button on the shifter or pushing the brake pedal. Therefore I am assuming there must be a problem between the ignition and the shifter outside of the security light problem, or is that in some way connected with the security problem?
Its normal because the engine isn't running yet. Once the engine's running the P/N safety switch locks you out from shifting until the brake pedal is pressed - a la' Audi 5000 stupidity years ago when drivers couldn't tell the difference between the brake pedal and the gas pedal. They swore their cars were "possessed". Audi termed it "pedal misapplication". Yes, we have drivers that can't tell the difference, both men and women, that drove their cars through the garage, backed out their driveways, into pools, and crashing. Let's see, brake pedal is the one in the middle, gas pedal all the way over to the right, and for some the "other right".....................

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Old 05-31-2009, 08:14 PM   #11
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnGirl02 View Post
Thank you.

Does anyone happen to know, while I try the bcm relearn, if it would be affected by a cable problem between the shifter and the ignition? I know the park-neutral switch is working correctly because the engine wonít turn over unless itís in park or neutral. However, you can still grab the shifter and put it in any position you want without pushing in the button on the shifter or pushing the brake pedal. Therefore I am assuming there must be a problem between the ignition and the shifter outside of the security light problem, or is that in some way connected with the security problem?
I believe they are two separate issues. but the latter not effecting that car to start up. There is a linkage between the brake pedal shifter they possibly may have been knocked out of whack. Is neutral still neutral (as in you can move the car with no issues)?

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Old 05-31-2009, 08:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

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Originally Posted by rc1488 View Post
I believe they are two separate issues. but the latter not effecting that car to start up. There is a linkage between the brake pedal shifter they possibly may have been knocked out of whack. Is neutral still neutral (as in you can move the car with no issues)?
Yes, neutral is still neutral.

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Old 05-31-2009, 08:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: SC2 turns over but Won't Start; please help

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Yes, neutral is still neutral.
That would indicate the cable to the tranny is fine. Then points to the shifter itself having issues. But again, I think this is irrelevant to your non-starting issue.

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