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Old 04-14-2009, 09:12 AM   #21
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Attention Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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Originally Posted by Sival View Post
The problem with Peugeots is more one of engine and transmission choice I suppose. Peugeot (and Citroen, both are part of the same group) is known for its diesel engines, which aren't a big seller in North America. They do have gas engines but, well, the strongest gas engine they put in a 207 is a 1.6L engine, which gives 150 hp in its turbo version or 120 in its standard version. Peugeot offers a 4 speed automatic for its 1.6L non-turbo engine, but equipped this way its 0-100 Km/h (roughly 0-60 mph) is slower than 11 seconds. Unless they put in a stronger engine (like VW does) there's a potential problem there.
I went to Peugeot's website and they don't offer a single, decent gas V6 engine. Everything seems to be a diesel. With the competition offering midsize cars with V6s pushing 280hp (and highway mileage in the high 20s) that would seem to indeed be a potential problem. At least Peugeot offers a 6 spd auto.

As far as styling, I would not be surprised to see a Peugeot-partnered Saturn using Peugeot platforms but designing cars exclusively for the American market. It would be a good way for them to enter the American market and sell their products under a fairly well-known and highly regarded (at least customer service-wise) name. I guess we'll see.

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

Peugeot - If this is the truth, they might as well sell off their GM inventory and shut the doors.

They'll do worse selling Peugeot's than selling Opels... Even GM knows that...

It's funny how the current management at Saturn so conveniently forgets why everyone was drawn to the Saturn brand in the first place.

If this happens I'd like to see a post to know everyone responsible for this decision, so we can avoid having any connection with them in the future.

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Old 04-14-2009, 11:09 AM   #23
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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GM has too many "brands". The Lambda chassis, for example, is sold by 4 different brands (Buick, Chev, GMC & Saturn). That's 4X the marketing, cosmetic engineering (read packaging), secondary manufacturing (eg. brand specific assembly), sales, parts logistics etc., and all the overhead (read management) to run these operations just to sell 1 platform. Reducing the number of brands to fewer "core" brands to sell 1 model per platform will dramatically cut costs associated with selling a platform.
I agree. I've mentioned this before....what we having been seeing with GM for the past couple of years is Multiple cars across multiple nameplates.

Where is the originality in that? It's almost like it is the early 1980s all over again....Chevy Chevette....meet Pontiac 1000... Pontiac 1000...meet Pontiac Acadian

Chevy Lumina....meet Buick Regal...Buick Regal...meet Pontiac Grand Prix

See the pattern here? Multiple cars across multiple brands...BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. Same T-Shirt, Different Decade.

You would think that with all of the Imaging that GM has for being a company that has been around for 100 years, that they would strive to make all of their cars different from one another. Or at least manufactured them so that if you had a part for a Buick, it was only compatible with a Buick, or a part for a Chevy would only work on a Chevy. Similar to how the S-Series works: Only S-Series parts work with an S-Series Car.

GM had it right with Saturn. The problem lies in the fact that GM didn't know a good thing when they made Saturn, so they continued to make mediocre cars for the masses (Chevy Uplander...meet Chevy Venture...meet Pontiac Montana). NO ORIGINALITY.

This is why I like my Saturn S-Series Cars. They ARE Different, and they are unique, and they aren't a cookie cutter piece of crap that GM continued to churn out over the years from stagnated Engineers who worked off of the fat of their forefathers..

Sorry for getting on a rant. GM needs an overhaul. I'm glad that Wagoneer (what a joke) and Lutz are gone. Henderson isn't any better. He's been there and done that. GM will continue to flounder until the gills have dried up and Government Motors will be crowned the new name of the company. Completely revamped and run by the government.

And yes I fear this will happen...unfortunately.

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Old 04-14-2009, 11:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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Sorry for getting on a rant. GM needs an overhaul. I'm glad that Wagoneer (what a joke) and Lutz are gone. Henderson isn't any better. He's been there and done that. GM will continue to flounder until the gills have dried up and Government Motors will be crowned the new name of the company. Completely revamped and run by the government.

And yes I fear this will happen...unfortunately.
Won't happen. Can't happen. It is un-Constitutional to allow the Government to run a private corporation, and it's against pretty darn near every business law in every State. The Government can force a restructure, sure, but they cannot Constitutionally operate any business.

GM will file Chapter 11 and emerge with Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick...GMC, Saab and Pontiac will be axed...Saturn and Hummer will be sold to the highest bidder (which incidentally CAN'T be a Chinese company since they don't make a single car that can pass our safety and/or emission standards). Don't listen to the fear.

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Old 04-14-2009, 12:53 PM   #25
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

I can understand another company buying the dealer facilities, but why would they want to keep the Saturn name? Let's say that Peugeot wanted to get back into the US market. What advantage would they see in calling their cars Saturns instead of Peugeots?

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Old 04-14-2009, 01:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

PSA Citroen\Peugeot would be a good fit. Since they are owned by the French Government, and they need to expand, buying the saturn brand with an established dealer base would give them the capability to sell cars in the american market. PSA builds some decent products now.

I wouldn't count it as the end, I would welcome it as a new beginning.

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Old 04-14-2009, 02:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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PSA Citroen\Peugeot would be a good fit. Since they are owned by the French Government, and they need to expand, buying the saturn brand with an established dealer base would give them the capability to sell cars in the american market. PSA builds some decent products now.

I wouldn't count it as the end, I would welcome it as a new beginning.
PSA isn't owned by the French government, that was Renault but even it isn't anymore, not since the early 90s.

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Old 04-14-2009, 02:26 PM   #28
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Question Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

I wonder if Peugeot partnering with Saturn would be similar to Renault and Nissan back in 1999, with each keeping its own distinct corporate culture and brand identity, but with product and component sharing to control costs.

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Old 04-14-2009, 03:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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I wonder if Peugeot partnering with Saturn would be similar to Renault and Nissan back in 1999, with each keeping its own distinct corporate culture and brand identity, but with product and component sharing to control costs.

That sounds possible.

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Old 04-14-2009, 05:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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I wonder if Peugeot partnering with Saturn would be similar to Renault and Nissan back in 1999, with each keeping its own distinct corporate culture and brand identity, but with product and component sharing to control costs.
That what it sounds like so far. Except that Saturn might go to one company that's good at small cars, another that's good at hybrids, etc...

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Old 04-14-2009, 06:08 PM   #31
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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It's funny how the current management at Saturn so conveniently forgets why everyone was drawn to the Saturn brand in the first place.
I guess I'm not part of "everybody". I couldn't care less where the cars are being built. Granted, I'm in Canada and my cars were both built in Spring Hill so I have a completely different viewpoint than many Americans on the boards. I chose to bring my business to Saturn because they had unique products (completely ignoring the Relay which was my first big disappointment with the direction Saturn was being moved in but that's another story) and exceptional customer service.

A possible partnership with Peugeot would ensure they continue offering unique products in the North American market. All we can do is wait and see what kind of partnership it may be and what products result from it. As long as the cars are up to par with the other vehicles on the market, Saturn will continue being my first stop when purchasing a new vehicle.

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Old 04-14-2009, 06:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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Won't happen. Can't happen. It is un-Constitutional to allow the Government to run a private corporation, and it's against pretty darn near every business law in every State. The Government can force a restructure, sure, but they cannot Constitutionally operate any business.

GM will file Chapter 11 and emerge with Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick...GMC, Saab and Pontiac will be axed...Saturn and Hummer will be sold to the highest bidder (which incidentally CAN'T be a Chinese company since they don't make a single car that can pass our safety and/or emission standards). Don't listen to the fear.
Ah, the government created a private company, which it owns all of the stock, called AMTRAK in the late 1960s from the various railroad's bankrupted rail passenger service. The government created a private company from the US Postal Department called the US Postal Service. The government took over several frieght railroads that went into bankruptcy and created Conrail in the 1980s and ran it while fixing its financial situation then selling it to private investors. There is nothing in the constitution that prevents the government from running a company.

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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I can understand another company buying the dealer facilities, but why would they want to keep the Saturn name? Let's say that Peugeot wanted to get back into the US market. What advantage would they see in calling their cars Saturns instead of Peugeots?
Saturns are a known quantity. For better or for worse. Peugots are a forgotten brand from the 70s, which could hold a lot of fear for the simpletons who flock to kia and toyota lots.

I see plenty of risk, but at least this buys Saturn some time, and frankly if they build the cars here(likely), its still one up on what GM was doing. Overtime Saturn could become truly independent, or if not, Peugot could simply change the name like Datsun/Nissan in the 80's.

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:57 PM   #34
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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Originally Posted by thatjerryguy View Post
I wonder if Peugeot partnering with Saturn would be similar to Renault and Nissan back in 1999, with each keeping its own distinct corporate culture and brand identity, but with product and component sharing to control costs.

We all know how successful French cars have been in the US, also how well the AMC/Renault partnership went...

I hope this is a false report, because it will not work...

To keep the company viable they will need to sell a sufficient quantity of cars, and Americans will not buy enough Peugeots to support Saturn.

Peugeot is a fine car, and I'd love to see them, and even the Citroen line in the US, but it will not happen. Has anyone thought about the costly US certifications? Guess not...

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Old 04-14-2009, 11:09 PM   #35
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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We all know how successful French cars have been in the US, also how well the AMC/Renault partnership went...

I hope this is a false report, because it will not work...

To keep the company viable they will need to sell a sufficient quantity of cars, and Americans will not buy enough Peugeots to support Saturn.

Peugeot is a fine car, and I'd love to see them, and even the Citroen line in the US, but it will not happen. Has anyone thought about the costly US certifications? Guess not...
Apparently Fritz Henderson hasn't. He has his head up so far he can't see daylight.

To me it seems that Henderson is talking big, yet has his head turned the other way, like this is no big deal. It will be a big deal when he is flipping burgers at Mc D's because he is out of a job at GM.

Old tricks need to GO!

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Old 04-15-2009, 08:52 AM   #36
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Attention Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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Saturns are a known quantity. For better or for worse. Peugots are a forgotten brand from the 70s, which could hold a lot of fear for the simpletons who flock to kia and toyota lots.
That's why, if such a partnership does happen, Peugeot might sell products under the Saturn name here in North America, kind of like how Nissan continued to be Nissan in the American market after Renault bought them. Such product might be rebadged Peugeots, but I'd bet on the current Saturn lineup continuing to be sold until Saturn and Peugeot come out with jointly developed vehicles for each market.

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Old 04-19-2009, 03:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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Peugeot is a fine car, and I'd love to see them, and even the Citroen line in the US, but it will not happen. Has anyone thought about the costly US certifications? Guess not...
Its not an issue nowdays like it was in the past. Many of the things like emissions and bumpers were stricter in the US in the past, but not so today.

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Old 04-19-2009, 07:55 PM   #38
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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PSA Citroen\Peugeot would be a good fit. Since they are owned by the French Government, and they need to expand, buying the saturn brand with an established dealer base would give them the capability to sell cars in the american market. PSA builds some decent products now.

I wouldn't count it as the end, I would welcome it as a new beginning.
My, how time flies. And history is forgotten.

The French cars. They have all been here and left. They didn't make it here.

Renault purchased AMC. Anyone remember. Renaults were sold at AMC dealerships. They never caught on. People still remembered the Renaults of yore. Renault left the USA (again) quickly.

I owned a Peugeot 504. Purchased new. Nice car. Automatic transmission went just after warranty. Had to pay for a rebuild. Engine 'developed' a 'leak' in the block. Towed more than enough times to be fixed. Had a manual choke when all others had an automatic choke. Anyone actually remember a manual choke? The barametric pressure outside had to be exactly right for the car to start. The seats . . . . though, the most comfortable seats in ANY car I have been in.

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Old 04-19-2009, 08:12 PM   #39
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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I owned a Peugeot 504. Purchased new. Nice car. Automatic transmission went just after warranty. Had to pay for a rebuild. Engine 'developed' a 'leak' in the block. Towed more than enough times to be fixed. Had a manual choke when all others had an automatic choke. Anyone actually remember a manual choke? The barametric pressure outside had to be exactly right for the car to start. The seats . . . . though, the most comfortable seats in ANY car I have been in.
We had a turbo-diesel 585, I'm pretty sure those engines were cursed as ours had an awful oil burning problem that coulld never be fixed lol. Aside from the wonky engine it was a really nice car lol.

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Old 04-19-2009, 08:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: New GM CEO Not Fazed by Future Competition from Saturn Brand, Peugeot Cited As P

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Why keep the Saturn name alive under a foreign brand when the whole point was to have a competitive American car company?
It'll give an American brand the opportunity to sell foreign cars under a domestic nameplate in order to compete with all the foreign nameplate cars that are made and sold here. This is just the reverse of Saturn's original reason but times have changed.

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