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Old 03-14-2009, 11:57 AM   #21
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
I think something like this company would fill the bill better:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=99286134
The more I learn about the corrupt, oppressive, Communist Chinese regime, the less I want to buy anything from China, be it clothing, electronics, or certainly cars. So many Americans have died fighting such oppression, for what? So we could sell out our country in exchange for cheap consumer goods?

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Old 03-14-2009, 12:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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Originally Posted by pmj View Post
While it's OK to not be in the manufacturing business, Saturn still has to have a vision and a lineup of cars that makes sense.
I was a fan of the original Saturn precisely because of the manufacturing side, not the retail side. I have no interest in a retail outlet that sells other manufacturer's goods. Saturn was about proving that America could still design and build a competitive automobile. The new Saturn says, hey we failed, America can't compete, but we can still sell other people's crap!

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Old 03-14-2009, 12:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2 View Post
I was a fan of the original Saturn precisely because of the manufacturing side, not the retail side. I have no interest in a retail outlet that sells other manufacturer's goods. Saturn was about proving that America could still design and build a competitive automobile. The new Saturn says, hey we failed, America can't compete, but we can still sell other people's crap!
And what would you do if the new Saturn found a way to have its vehicles made in US plants like your Subaru ? What if the new designs are world class? Suppose they even brought back polymer? I don't know how you can speak with such certainty about failure before we find out what is actually proposed.

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Old 03-14-2009, 12:42 PM   #24
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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And what would you do if the new Saturn found a way to have its vehicles made in US plants like your Subaru ? What if the new designs are world class? Suppose they even brought back polymer? I don't know how you can speak with such certainty about failure before we find out what is actually proposed.
Depends on where the vehicle was designed and what the parent company was. If I had moral objections, due to it being a Chinese company for instance, then I would not consider the car. If it were a company I didn't have a problem with, then I guess I'd consider one if I liked the product. But I'd feel the same as I do about my Subaru. I'm glad my Legacy was assembled in Indiana, but it's not a truly American car like my SL2 was. So, no, I don't feel the same about my Legacy as I did the real Saturns.

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Old 03-14-2009, 12:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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Depends on where the vehicle was designed and what the parent company was. If I had moral objections, due to it being a Chinese company for instance, then I would not consider the car. If it were a company I didn't have a problem with, then I guess I'd consider one if I liked the product. But I'd feel the same as I do about my Subaru. I'm glad my Legacy was assembled in Indiana, but it's not a truly American car like my SL2 was. So, no, I don't feel the same about my Legacy as I did the real Saturns.
You are entitled to any opinion that you want based on your own moral standards. All I am asking is why you spoke so certainly about this effort being a bust for the USA before the details are even announced? As for the Chinese being involved in our economy, I read yesterday that they have financed the US national debt to a level of a trillion dollars. That is something that is a fact, not a hypothetical possibility. Given that, you must already be in a moral quandary of immense proportions because they are not going away anytime soon.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...R2009031300703.

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Old 03-14-2009, 01:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

That's a shame. Sad state of affairs...

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Old 03-14-2009, 02:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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Originally Posted by spartsguy29 View Post
Might want to re-check your math there, bubba.
Woops!! Even so...$350 Million in sales won't save/help GM...

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Old 03-14-2009, 05:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

Am I the only one that thinks that Saturn should try wiping the slate clean and try to make a comeback as a company that designs and builds a decent car? After all isn't that what Saturn was originally intended to do? Produce a good small car that was designed to compete with the Japanese. Saturn has good plant, workers with 18 years experience building good cars. My thought is this, tell me I wrong; Redesign the Sprighill plant to build a new subcompact & midsize car, dust off and update the EV1(god knows their is a market for it), get out of and stay out of the minivan and SUV market(we had no business being there in the first place and we didn't do a great job while we were there), bring back the original UAW contract, and get rid of the current marketing team(no offense, Jill never understood why the original S-series sold in the first place and she thinks that polymer panels weren't a selling point). Springhill was set-up to produce the ECOTEC which still has some life left in it, why not use it to an advantage. The ION & S-series were good solid designs, and ground breaking at time they were introduced but were allowed to get dated because of lack of R&D when it was needed to improve on them. The L-series never caught on, the VUE had the VTI dumped in it before GM worked the bugs out it. My thought is that Saturn lost out when GM decided that it should be marketing European models, it's not the Europeans that are out selling the Big Three it's Japan & Korea. I think what Saturn needs to find out what got them this far and get back on track.

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Old 03-14-2009, 05:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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Originally Posted by Maritime Storm View Post
Am I the only one that thinks that Saturn should try wiping the slate clean and try to make a comeback as a company that designs and builds a decent car? After all isn't that what Saturn was originally intended to do? Produce a good small car that was designed to compete with the Japanese.
I think so, but there's no realistic way for that to happen anymore. GM made sure it completely destroyed what it had created in Saturn.

Quote:
Saturn has good plant, workers with 18 years experience building good cars.
Correction: Saturn had a good plant. It builds the Chevy Traverse now.

Quote:
bring back the original UAW contract, and get rid of the current marketing team(no offense, Jill never understood why the original S-series sold in the first place and she thinks that polymer panels weren't a selling point).
I agree. It's apparent that Saturn management had no grasp of what made people so loyal to the brand and enthusiastic about the cars in the early days.

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Old 03-14-2009, 08:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

Man, this article is depressing. As a loyal Saturn owner I do not like the sounds of any of these options. Unless GM keeps Saturn as a brand by cutting back on models or whatever it has to do, or Saturn can exist as an independent American car company (which I sadly doubt is possible) then I have a feeling I'll be mourning a defunct Saturn just like I did when they discontinued Oldsmobile.

I honestly won't have much of an interest in them if it's going to be some other car manufacturers model with a Saturn emblem on it. I do not want Saturn to turn into what Geo was, that's already been proven not to work for the long run. I've never been a huge fan of the Opel collaboration either.. Sure, they are great, beautiful cars. And I'm not even against more than one car brand to have pretty much the same model. But come on, Saturn needs some more brand specific models!

I would much, much rather they integrate Saturn with other GM dealerships or something, anything. Maybe some executives need to step down or have a reality check about what WE as the customers want in this brand and what made us love it in the first place. Because God knows it isn't what they've done with it. I'm talking stuff like Bob Lutz acting like Saturn is part of the future of General Motors and tooting the brands horn, only to flip flop and say it's not profitable and the like. That kind of BS really pisses me off.

God, I would love nothing more than to see the revival of the S-Series.. Yes, polymer panels and all! Obviously they would need to update it, but I think that would be the ideal. If they can't do any of those things I would much rather they just let Saturn die with some dignity, phase it out over the next couple years, and let it rest it peace. I just feel like any of these other plans will prove to be in vain in the long run. Just my opinion on the issue...

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Old 03-14-2009, 09:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmj View Post
While it's OK to not be in the manufacturing business, Saturn still has to have a vision and a lineup of cars that makes sense. They can't just sell a hodgepodge of vehicles and expect it to work. They need to be telling the manufacturers what to build. Take Apple Computer as an example, they don't manufacture anything anymore. They just have the vision and the design.

That said, if most of it is made in China, I probably won't be buying.

I do think Saturn can find a way to partner with some of the companies striving to make electric vehicles. But they need to help lead, not just offer a retail channel. None of those companies have the production capacity and associated cost savings to fit Saturn's needs without help.

Your comment on Apple is interesting. A lot of companies don’t manufacture their own products. It is common for flat panel HDTV manufacturers to buy their panels from a small group of suppliers. For example, Sony doesn’t manufacture flat panels screens. They buy their screens from Samsung. So is a Sony TV really a Samsung? Yes and no. Yes they share the same basic screen, but from there the features and video card are totally different. I would even argue that the Sony LCD TV’s have a better picture, but that my opinion.

Charlie thinks some posts on here are rude, but that is his opinion. You can’t take these posts personally. We are all here for the good of Saturn and you should be happy people are still talking about the brand when MANY have written them off. I think we need constructive criticism even if it is not what some want to hear. This site, in a way, is like a focus group. If we all agree and say how great Saturn will be, that gets us nowhere and is pointless. Now is the time to debate every little detail. There are no second chances this time around. I would hope some people from GM/Saturn read this blog to get a sense of what the “old school” original Saturn customers want, especially when the goal is to go back to a different kind of car and a different kind of car company. I would love to see polymer or some new material that won’t dent, ding or rust.

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Old 03-16-2009, 04:03 AM   #32
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

FYI... Sony just signed an agreement with Sharp for it's lcd panels... They had the Samsung deal since 2003...

Sony said they switched for economic reasons, Samsung said they did it because Samsung tv's have been out selling Sony...

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Old 03-16-2009, 06:28 AM   #33
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
FYI... Sony just signed an agreement with Sharp for it's lcd panels... They had the Samsung deal since 2003...

Sony said they switched for economic reasons, Samsung said they did it because Samsung tv's have been out selling Sony...

I bet they got a better deal. I'm waiting for 3-D TV, it might be a while.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:20 PM   #34
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

Math God beat me to it. Saturn already died when they stopped making the ION and the original style VUE. EVERYTHING 'Saturn' makes now is just another GM car with a Saturn name badge on it - so what is all this concern about? Saturn no longer makes a unique vehicle. Saturn is already gone.

The THREE big reasons I became a Saturn fan in the very beginning were:
1. A four cylinder motor with a timing chain (NOT a belt)
2. Plastic sides that won't rust or dent
3. No haggle pricing.
The only one that remains is item number 3.
I have been a GM fan my whole life and a Passionate Saturn fan since 1990 when they launched. I toured the plant in Springhill Tenn. and I could talk circles around most Saturn Salesmen back in the day. However, there is now nothing left to warrant my loyalty to Saturn in current or future production. The only way to save Saturn and keep its loyal fans is to return to the roots that made it unique, but I don't see that happening. I will keep my old SC2s running as long as I can. In my opinion Saturn was the last true American classic car, that is why I collect them.

PS - I am very seriously thinking of looking at FORD the next time I purchace a new car (which may be a while) because they are the only ones NOT taking bail out money from the governement - that speaks volumes to me.

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Old 03-19-2009, 09:42 AM   #35
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
What Saturn need to do to survive is sell cars that are better than the cars currently supplied by GM.

Another SUV with a Honda 3.5L V6 sounds like a winner! Unfortunately lightning never strikes twice...
Wasnt that what saturn set out to do in the first place? Great gas mileage on a car that wont rust and can last 300k miles usually for $13500 isnt bad. All their cars had the same parts throughout (minus the space frame, another awesome thing - read some deer vs saturn stories and you'd feel safe in one too) sure, they had some issues (put the alternator too close to the exhuast manifold (burns the regulator out) and some other minor issues that could have been fixed in a few models to have cars that would last 500k probably with minor to no labor (fix the bearings GRRR)

Basically, GM farked saturn without lube and then kicked it out. Redhead stepchild company is it.

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Old 03-20-2009, 11:42 AM   #36
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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They should continue what they started, import Opels and put the Saturn badge on it. What's so hard with this? They are willing to kill a brand with loyal customers instead of importing Opel to the US.

I own an Astra so I'm already driving an Opel, I dont see the problem. Cost? Raise the price or use a plant in Mexico. Mexico Opels would be way better than crappy cars from China or India.

I have a better idea, Saturn and Opel should split from GM and sell their own cars. And beat GM at it.

Frankski
The decision has been made, Buick has replaced Saturn as Opel's US partner. So as much as I like the idea of Saturn selling more Opel rebadged vehicles, its not gonna happen, end of story.

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Old 03-20-2009, 01:17 PM   #37
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

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The decision has been made, Buick has replaced Saturn as Opel's US partner. So as much as I like the idea of Saturn selling more Opel rebadged vehicles, its not gonna happen, end of story.
Other then this article: http://www.nextautos.com/spy-shots-b...and-opel-astra

which speculates that this MIGHT happen (and that the photo in question might be a Buick) , I have not seen nor heard that Buick will definitely be getting any other Opel designs with exception to the Insignia design. (Google Buick + Insignia)

I have heard nothing official that "Buick has replaced Saturn as Opel's US partner". However as Buick and Opel have a long history the marriage would make complete sense.
Whatever badge Opels make it here under, I'd buy one. I am very happy with my Astra.
I like Frankski's ideas although not too probable.

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Old 03-20-2009, 01:22 PM   #38
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors

This is STILL one of my favorite looking cars of all time...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Opel_GT_front_quarter.jpg (72.6 KB, 7 views)

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Old 03-20-2009, 01:24 PM   #39
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This is STILL one of my favorite looking cars of all time...
My friend in high school had one. What fun we had cruising South Beach in the GT back then!

This was one of my favs back in the late '80's: '87 Omni GLHS turbo, what a sleeper.
http://www.allpar.com/omni/GLHS.php

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Old 03-20-2009, 01:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: Saturn Prepares for Life Beyond General Motors



The Opel I wish they would brought over

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