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Old 03-10-2009, 03:16 PM   #1
ClapDaddy
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Dazed An Explanation

It was back in June 1994 when I first became a Saturn Owner.

Both my wife and I had left the American cars behind and were Toyota
Owners. We were tired of the “stuff” that the Big 3 made. We were
tired of the treatment both on the Sales and the Service side. My
then 16 year old son wanted to buy a Saturn. ALL I knew about Saturn
was that it was plastic and you had to pay FULL Price. IMO, it was a
HUGE “rip-off”. My son was adamant about a Saturn, so I started
researching Saturn further. In the end my son could not afford a NEW
Saturn, so I decided to prove to him that Saturns were junk, by
leasing one. It was a 1994 SL2. After the break-in period, I drove
the car HARD. I wanted the car to fall apart. Instead it did exceed my
expectations. When I took the car in for Service, I was treated like a
King. My son did get a used 93SC1.

In 1996, I was the first President of the Saturn CarClub in Columbus,
Ohio. After we set things up, we traveled around helping “other”
Saturn CarClubs get started. When it was not feasible to travel to a
Retailer, we sent them information and ideas on how to get started.
Our CarClub was the ONLY one that visited Spring Hill 10 years in a
row. There was a plaque in the Visitor’s center showing our visits. I
was lucky to meet many Saturn employees and made some “friends”.
Growing up in Detroit, I was impressed with the dedication and the
openness of both Management and Union, at Saturn.

A piece of my heart was removed when Spring Hill stopped making
Saturns. I was determined to NEVER buy a non-polymer Saturn.

In 2001, I retired from Lucent Technology, after 33 years of
employment. I was a Technical Course Developer and Trainer. My subject
matter was testing Analog and Digital Services. I was on the road
constantly from 1984, until I retired.

Flash forward!!

It seemed like a matter of time before Saturn was going to change or
go away. Selling clones of the Divisions was, NOT the way to grow the
brand. The problems with the economy made it easier for GM to make
the decision to end Saturn.

Now I see us at another cross-road. Just as I was prejudiced against
American made cars. Just as I was NEVER going to buy a non-polymer
Saturn. But this time is different. This time I want to wait and see.
NO ONE here knows what is going to happen. NO ONE here can say if the
vehicles that Saturn will get will be made from Asia, India or the
Moon. Why NOT wait and see the products, before passing judgment? It
is really simple. If the product or products do not meet what the
customers want, then Saturn will be history. BUT “I” cannot give up on
something I believe in until “I” see, feel, smell and test the
product.

In conclusion, I am sure glad that I am NOT on trail in a courtroom.
With some of the jury that is here, I would probably be executed
BEFORE I could present my case. Most of you wanted Saturn to move away
from GM. A couple of months is a short time to wait.

...
Al ClapDaddy

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Old 03-10-2009, 03:22 PM   #2
ClapDaddy
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Attention Re: An Explanation

The whole point that I am trying to make, is that we should wait and see what happens.

To prejudge and guess what is going to happen, is not a fair thing to do, to a company that we all LOVED.

If I had stuck to my original idea about Saturn, then I would probably NEVER bought one. If I had stuck to my view of Polymer Saturns, then I would NEVER had the experience of the NEW Saturns.


Hope this makes some sense.

p.s. One e-mail that I received said that I felt this way because I sell Saturns. Well, I am sure that is partially true. BUT under the current plans for Saturn, end of model year 2011, I will be able to retire and NOT have to work full time.

...
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: An Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClapDaddy View Post
Now I see us at another cross-road. Just as I was prejudiced against
American made cars. Just as I was NEVER going to buy a non-polymer
Saturn. But this time is different. This time I want to wait and see.
NO ONE here knows what is going to happen. NO ONE here can say if the
vehicles that Saturn will get will be made from Asia, India or the
Moon. Why NOT wait and see the products, before passing judgment? It
is really simple. If the product or products do not meet what the
customers want, then Saturn will be history. BUT “I” cannot give up on
something I believe in until “I” see, feel, smell and test the
product.
Did you just buy an Astra, ClapDaddy?

...
93 SW2
96 SL2
01 SL2
02 L200
08 Astra Xe
07 Aura XR

Complacency leads to mediocrity.
Mediocrity leads to our demise.

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Old 03-10-2009, 04:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: An Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClapDaddy View Post
The whole point that I am trying to make, is that we should wait and see what happens.
I agree. If I thought I could consistently predict the future with even 60 to 65%, much less total accuracy, I'd quit working, move to Vegas and live happily ever after.

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Old 03-10-2009, 06:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: An Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post
Blasphemer! We love Saturn. Yes, we do.
How is waiting and seeing anything but a logical thing to do? I don't have any money invested in GM or Saturn. It's of no direct cost or financial return to me, but for the sake of Clapdaddy and others who work for Saturn or at the retailers, I hope there are good results. Quite frankly I have the same hope for those who work at Ford or Chrysler too. I do have an indirect interest in all of this because more the people who are working and prosperous help make everyone in the country economically stronger. Ronald Reagan could have told you that.

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Old 03-10-2009, 07:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: An Explanation

Personally, I don't give a $%*@ either way. They don't make any cars I couldn't get elsewhere, and those cars don't appeal to me anyways.

Furthermore, people aren't going to just stop buying cars if Saturn closes down. It just means that other brands will increase in sales. So the majority of jobs lost from shuttering Saturn will be gained at other brands (my guess would be at Toyota and Hyundai mainly, most Saturn owners are too bland for a Nissan, and too cheap for a Honda, and don't expect them to get one of the "nicer" Hyundais either, they'll get the stripper Accents. Of course some of the kids who are just driving Saturns through school or as a first car, or a first newer car, etc. might move on to something else nicer, but they (myself included) don't exactly count as "Saturn Fans").

Some might really be cheeky and just keep their Saturns running forever. So there will be more mechanic and replacement part jobs.

Here's my opinion. Nothing good can come from this if you are looking to buy a Saturn right now. So take that into consideration before buying, would you mind having your car serviced at the Chevy dealership, if Saturn goes away is the increased depreciation going to be too much for you, things like that. That way, if things turn out poorly, you're already prepared for this and expected it, but if things go well for Saturn then you're ahead of the game.

But waiting to buy a car because you're unsure doesn't do anyone any good. If you find the possibility of buying a Saturn and the brand disappearing (either completely or being taken over, etc.) then buy the Chevy version of it. If it's not a big deal, then go buy the Saturn you really want and don't worry about the future. Hell for all we know a meteor will smash into the Earth tomorrow killing most humanity instantly and leaving the survivors to live in misery until they are finally eaten by cannibals or mutated animals, or starve to death.

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Old 03-10-2009, 07:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: An Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by FGCA_XRL View Post
Here's my opinion. Nothing good can come from this if you are looking to buy a Saturn right now. So take that into consideration before buying, would you mind having your car serviced at the Chevy dealership, if Saturn goes away is the increased depreciation going to be too much for you, things like that. That way, if things turn out poorly, you're already prepared for this and expected it, but if things go well for Saturn then you're ahead of the game.
Here is what I did which is better than just my opinion. In January I bought a new Saturn VUE because I got an unbelievable (for Saturn) price and I intend to keep it for a long time. Barring unforeseen circumstances I am hoping the two Saturns I now own will be the last exclusively gasoline powered vehicles I ever buy. On the other hand I recently advised my kid who was driving an ION to buy another make because it is far more likely that as his needs change he will be concerned about trade-in or resale value. Others told him the same thing and he did what we suggested.

Beyond that, my reason for wanting Saturn to go on has little to do with my own needs, wants or direct financial interests. I simply want some people who I respect and like to keep their jobs.

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Old 03-10-2009, 08:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: An Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by John10 View Post
Here is what I did which is better than just my opinion. In January I bought a new Saturn VUE because I got an unbelievable (for Saturn) price and I intend to keep it for a long time. Barring unforeseen circumstances I am hoping the two Saturns I now own will be the last exclusively gasoline powered vehicles I ever buy. On the other hand I recently advised my kid who was driving an ION to buy another make because it is far more likely that as his needs change he will be concerned about trade-in or resale value. Others told him the same thing and he did what we suggested.

Beyond that, my reason for wanting Saturn to go on has little to do with my own needs, wants or direct financial interests. I simply want some people who I respect and like to keep their jobs.
Completely understandable, that's exactly what I'm advocating. If you're planning on keeping it up yourself for a long time, then the fate of the brand has less influence on your decision. But if you're someone who goes through cars every few years, well then the depreciation aspects of it are going to be a more prominent issue.

That's one of the things that turns me off about the Genesis Coupes so much as compared to a G35 or G37. I recognize that while I may be able to pick up a used GenCoupe for a good price due to the depreciation, I go through cars rather quickly. So after a handful of years, the GenCoupe will have lost more value than a G, removing most price advantage it would have. Were I to keep the car for 5+ years, then the difference would likely be smaller as both cars would depreciate a significant amount, but in the short term the Hyundai will depreciate significantly more than even an older Infiniti.

[/rant]

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Old 03-11-2009, 07:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: An Explanation

I'll wait and see, but I'll also express my opinion that if it's not American - both design and production - then I won't ever regain the interest I had in the original Saturn. And if Saturn ends up selling cars for some Indian or Chinese company, I won't even consider one.

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Old 03-12-2009, 06:22 AM   #10
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Default Re: An Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkle bik View Post
Did you just buy an Astra, ClapDaddy?
Yes.

My family has bought two Astras. My son who is 30 now and one of my brothers bought one.

...
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: An Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by John10 View Post
I agree. If I thought I could consistently predict the future with even 60 to 65%, much less total accuracy, I'd quit working, move to Vegas and live happily ever after.
John10,

ROTFLMAO !

I really don't understand aLL the hostility towards the future of Saturn, when Saturn has NOT disclosed its plan(s).

The point that I am trying to make is that back in 1994, when I bought our first Saturn, considered them to be "junk". I wanted to prove to my then 16 year old son, that MY view/prejudice of American Cars, was the RIGHT view. When you think about it, I gave up a 1994 Camry XLE to try and prove I was right.

We also NOW know about the "issues" that the early Saturns had.
  • Oil Burning
  • Weak Alternators
  • Motorized Seat Belts
  • Diaper for an Air Bag
  • ABS that did its initial check at 8 mph thus giving almost NO braking when backing up
  • Distortion in the rear windows of the Sedans
  • No "rain gutters".

But the early Saturns SOLD out each model year!

IMO, the BIGGEST reason was the Saturn Experience.

Lets SEE what Saturn comes out with and judge it by the product and not by rumors, press releases or our OWN prejudices.

...
Al ClapDaddy

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