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Old 02-19-2009, 04:38 PM   #41
K-1
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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Originally Posted by thatjerryguy View Post
OK, fine. What would make the most sense (and I sincerely hope this is the avenue being pursued, not some Chinese or Indian venture) is Saturn offering as much, if not all, of Opel's lineup here in the States. Quite frankly, there isn't a single car that Opel sells over there that couldn't sell over here. If it works, maybe they co-design the next generation of Saturn/Opel vehicles, take over some shuttered factories and build them here (as well as there).

Buick is Opel's buddy now, for better or worse.

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So what's the point of "Still Saturn" if all Saturn becomes a hodgepodge of imports? Defeats every ounce of the original intent of Saturn of trying to show off a quality American made/brand product, right? Ugh!
Long-term, the boutique rebranding won't work. I have a feeling the import production would only last until they pick up one of GM's shuttered plants. You never know, they could call Spring Hill home again. Only this time, the plant is fully flexible.

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Old 02-19-2009, 04:39 PM   #42
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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What, no i-Pod connection?
Well yes. iPod connectivity should be standard...and navigation optional. And there would be a bare-bones model like the old SL with 5-speed, cheap cloth seats and no floormats for under 10K.

To round out the initial lineup they could do a 5 door hatchback version and a coupe. And they could yank the 2-mode hybrid out of the VUE and retool it for the SL-H model, which should get insane mpg since its so light.

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Old 02-19-2009, 04:46 PM   #43
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Default Hmm. The purpose of maintaining our S-series cars is...

If Saturn the brand happens to go the route of being a Trojan Horse for Chinese/Indian/Middleeastern carmakers to gain a foothold in the U.S. then one has to ask, what does one do?

If that happens, I think there is value in keeping our S-series polymer cars going as long as we can, to impress people with how long lived they are. Why? Well, our Tupperware cars from Spring Hill will remind people that Americans *can* build good cars, innovative and impressively long lasting cars at that.

The value there would be like the 300 Spartans under King Leonidas. Their example got the Greeks to believe in their own ability again, to emerge greater. I'd like to think that seeing a polymer paneled SL2 humming along in 2015 will remind people here that yes, we can build good cars. And just maybe that will inspire a new generation of Americans to deliver.

So I will keep checking my oil. I'm going to beat Luke's record for most miles, someday

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Old 02-19-2009, 04:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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So, you guys *****ed about GM ruining Saturn and all that jazz. The glory days are gone, blah, blah, blah. Now that there's the possibility of a full spin-off, which could lead to full-scale manufacturing, not just boutique rebranding, and you guys are still *****ing. Does nothing ever please you?
I agree this site has become nothing more then Saturnhaters...my god people Dont knock her for having a positive outlook on things? Go pess on someone elses fire will yah.

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Old 02-19-2009, 05:03 PM   #45
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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Long-term, the boutique rebranding won't work. I have a feeling the import production would only last until they pick up one of GM's shuttered plants. You never know, they could call Spring Hill home again. Only this time, the plant is fully flexible.
Ok, Saturn, whatever it will be picks up one of GM's dead plant after 5-10 years of just being a retailer for imports and then what? It will take at least five years to actually draw up something, test it, and retool the plant to get the first product ready sale. And haven't even calculated the 100's of millions of dollars investment and capitalization that goes into this. The reason why Saturn was launched was due to GM's $ investment. Without a big daddy like that, it's nearly impossible to build a mainstream car company in this country.

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Old 02-19-2009, 05:15 PM   #46
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

Where can i find Opel logos for my Astra? The Saturn logos are so January.

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Old 02-19-2009, 05:18 PM   #47
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

The only thing I can think of is a not so famous quote....



"Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

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Old 02-19-2009, 05:41 PM   #48
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

What never ceases to amaze me is that no one seems to want to accept the fact that "rebadging" is the corporate equivalent of slapping a "Type R" sticker on a Yugo....

...
Old Saturns never die, people KILL them, so check your damn oil!
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." Albert Einstein

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Old 02-19-2009, 05:46 PM   #49
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Attention Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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Looks like this thing is made out of Legos.

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Old 02-19-2009, 06:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

Right now Saturn is a great process behind a badge, nothing more. Some harbor dreams that maybe, just maybe if some Chinese, Korean, French (oh please), or Italian company will ride in and put both the badge and process on cars and all will be well.

I would venture that most holding a torch for the next incarnation of Saturn, won't spend on a Kia, Hyundai or won't jump into just anything because it has "Saturn" painted, taped or screwed onto a fender. Hope is a good thing, but I am not buying into the continual disinformation that has been coming from GM, the FOT and yes, Jill.

This whole process is now no more than a show for the consumer and the dealers. I do not discount the chance that some Chinese company would buy the badge, but I doubt all the dealers are going to jump onto that bandwagon if it could get rolling in time to save their businesses. Clearly some would take a chance that new cars, the ability to service them and access to parts in a timely manner will work.

On the other hand, I doubt Opel could stand alone here. There is no need for another supplier of anything. We are looking at a 10.1 million car market, possibly for the next 2 to 4 years or longer. So people that talk about Saturn's survival, including GM, the FOT, and Jill, seem to forget to mention where, in a shrinking market, the numbers are going to come from to support a new company. Remember, Saturn is going away because GM has to adjust to the current real world status and even make a profit.

The only reasonable way for Saturn to survive in my opinion is if it remains part of GM and replaces both Buick and Pontiac. I'd kill of GMC as well. If they want Chinese Saturns, let them make a domestic Chinese car and call it Saturn, Buick or whatever, who really cares. The new GM is going to reduce dealerships and most of those should be PBG stores and the rest can be converted to Saturn stores selling a line that starts with an Outlook and ends with a properly priced and properly Americanized series of rebadged Opels. For the Buick die-hards, I'd even recycle a couple of Buick names for the fun of it. Saturn Century works for me.

Otherwise, it is time to ignore the hot air being passed. As it is, there is a better chance for GM to be forced into bankruptcy than someone get a new, successful Saturn program launched anytime soon.

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Old 02-19-2009, 07:23 PM   #51
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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Originally Posted by KUDZU View Post
I say they start over...release a new SL for 2012 and bring back the polymer!
Actually, I don't think you're that far off. The dealers collectively already own majority stake in Saturn Distribution Corp, which GM is dying to unload with the brand.
So the dealers unite, take it over with private investor money as well (Kerkorian has been itching to get in charge of his own company for years -- and SDC could be his privately-owned ticket). The dealers, having been around during the actual successful 90s, know exactly what worked (ahem: plastic, mpg, handling, price, customer service) and could bring Saturn back to exactly what it started off to be, and kicked butt doing.
If my local franchiser bails, which they should if Saturn keeps being rebadge-central, I hope they tell Wagoner where to shove it and become a Subaru & Volkswagen dealer. There is currently only one dealer for them in my entire metro area, and the owner of it is the biggest crook in the biz (behind Wagoner). Are you reading this Lockhart Group?!

...
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Old 02-19-2009, 10:12 PM   #52
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
And the band played on....
As the helicopters whirred
Drunk on the lawn in a nuclear dawn
My senses finally blurred

He was a rock, to the end, a solid reminder
Couldn't deny a friend

We lived in the noise and the sweet amber poison

Peekin' up the skirt of the end

And we'd drink, two gnarly dudes and some records
Much like plates of black food

We filled up our faces, saw some far places

Stood on the roof in the nude

And the band played on
As the helicopters whirred
Drunk on the lawn in a nuclear dawn
My senses finally blurred

Between poles, he said "We're like cows in the grass"
Brushing off flies

Chaise lounging around, standing up, falling down

Till we no longer opened our eyes

And we'd drink, ever notice how drinking's like war?
Cup o' troops o'er the gums

To the end of our health, a campaign 'gainst myself

Armed with bourbons and scotches and rums

And the band played on
As the helicopters whirred
Drunk on the lawn in a nuclear dawn
My senses finally blurred

Think of bombs, we're poised on the edge of disaster
Whether it's right or it's wrong

We opened the window, played some Nintendo

Sang a few bars of some pretty old song:

Irene goodnight, Irene goodnight
Goodnight Irene, goodnight Irene

I'll see you in my dreams

Oh to dream, those impotent bones of extinction
Flying graceful and free

None but the best 'cause the man cannot rest

Till he's finally beaten his me

And the band played on
As the helicopters whirred
Drunk on the lawn in a nuclear dawn
My senses finally blurred

Till the end, he passed out on the sundeck that morning
Quietly saying goodbye

But I was so hammered I sputtered and stammered

Told him he couldn't just die

He was a rock, went straight for his own Armageddon
Face froze in a grin

Ambulance flyin' in, I never drank again

Can't really call that a loss or a win

And the band played on
As the helicopters whirred
Drunk on the lawn in a nuclear dawn
My senses finally blurred

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Old 02-19-2009, 10:43 PM   #53
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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... And the band played on
As the helicopters whirred
Drunk on the lawn in a nuclear dawn
My senses finally blurred
wow, and I thought Hunter S. Thompson had gone on to that land where dead buffalo roam ...

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Old 02-19-2009, 11:40 PM   #54
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

This is such great news. Keep Saturn alive, Jill!!!!

I would personally like to see Saturn team up with Honda. How about a Honda Civic with a unique Saturn exterior and interior, polymer panels, but same engine and tranny options? Now, that would be a RELIABLE Saturn!!!

If not a Saturn Civic, let's hope someone decent teams up with Saturn.

My hopes are up again! Saturn still has a chance!!!!

...
2002 SC2 (78,000 miles) I LOVE my Saturn! =]

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Old 02-20-2009, 12:50 AM   #55
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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Originally Posted by briansnoopy View Post
Actually, I don't think you're that far off. The dealers collectively already own majority stake in Saturn Distribution Corp, which GM is dying to unload with the brand.
So the dealers unite, take it over with private investor money as well (Kerkorian has been itching to get in charge of his own company for years -- and SDC could be his privately-owned ticket). The dealers, having been around during the actual successful 90s, know exactly what worked (ahem: plastic, mpg, handling, price, customer service) and could bring Saturn back to exactly what it started off to be, and kicked butt doing.
If my local franchiser bails, which they should if Saturn keeps being rebadge-central, I hope they tell Wagoner where to shove it and become a Subaru & Volkswagen dealer. There is currently only one dealer for them in my entire metro area, and the owner of it is the biggest crook in the biz (behind Wagoner). Are you reading this Lockhart Group?!
If Kerkorian wanted a car company so bad he could buy all of GM right now. Their stock is virtually valueless. He won't touch it or Saturn with a 20 foot pole.

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Old 02-20-2009, 04:10 AM   #56
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Attention Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

Wow, tough crowd here. I join the growing number of folks wondering what Saturn needs to do to make some of the disgruntled members around here happy. I know some of you guys have had issues with your cars, some with your retailers, and others with the "GMization" of Saturn, but why not give Jill and the FOT a chance to succeed before squashing the idea of making Saturn independent?

We all look back with fond memories of the past, and quickly forget that all was not perfect back in the day. As long ago as 1993-94, I remember reading pleas from owners, begging GM to keep Saturn a completely independent, separate subsidiary. Now, under dire circumstances, we actually have an opportunity to see that happen, and some are quick to criticize the move. Why not give them a chance to get this effort off the ground before bashing it? Saturn has always been about being open-minded, experimenting with new ideas, and doing things different, yet some of you are being too close-minded to see the potential here. Why focus on worst case scenarios? Do you really think that Saturn believes it has a chance of being successful if they just rebadge the some of the Chinese- or Indian-built cars you've talked about here? They know better than that! In order to be successful, any cars sold in Saturn facilities will need to be designed to meet their design requirements, exceed Government safety standards, and manufactured to at least the same level of quality found in the GM-built cars today. There's a lot of excess manufacturing capacity in North America and Europe. Who knows how this will unfold? We could even see features, like updated polymer body-side panels, make a comeback. Am I optimistic? You bet. The sky is the limit at this point.

I find it interesting that there's a relatively small, but vocal, group of members who complain about everything Saturn does. In contrast, there's a significantly larger group of folks -- by many orders of magnitude -- who want to see Saturn succeed. They are among the several thousand people who signed the "Save Saturn" petition. Those are the folks who have sent me emails sharing their excitement and hope about what Saturn can become. They tend not to post as much, because they don't want to see their ideas and comments rudely shot down by the aforementioned group of naysayers. But I'll fix that problem. I think its important that everyone feel comfortable posting in the forum... regardless of their opinion. And please don't confuse this with censorship. I'm not saying that I'm going to only allow "positive" posts -- I think its important that we discuss both good and bad aspects of any particular topic -- but everyone needs to be more respectful of one another and respect the rules of the forum. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be posting messages here.

I'd like to see those of you who are so critical, focus your energy on providing Saturn with constructive criticism and ideas on how to be better in the future. Why spend so much time around here bashing everything that Saturn does? Continuing that behavior, attacking other members who support Saturn, or slamming the ideas being explored to make Saturn a truly different kind of car company once again will not be tolerated. It's rude and inappropriate. I'm not going to let the actions of a few, ruin this forum for everyone else. We're all here because we want to see Saturn succeed.

I commend Jill and the FOT on their efforts to save Saturn from being shutdown by GM. I'm also happy that GM is giving Saturn a chance to be successful as a stand-alone entity. Success is not guaranteed, and nobody is saying that their transformation is going to be easy. But at least they're trying. Back in the early 1990s, Saturn proved that a small, upstart car company could revolutionize a century-old industry. I'm anxious to see that same type of innovation at work once again.

Charlie

...
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:56 AM   #57
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

I'm one of the negative members, obviously. However, it's not out of any disdain for Saturn or GM, far from it.

My opposition to throwing good money after bad with regards to Saturn lies in the economics of it. The car market has contracted severely over the past 18 months. Even the grandest, most intelligent ideas for Saturn going forward have little chance of succeeding. When I hear about a dealer owned Saturn, Saturn shops turned into Flying J truck stops, etc., I LOL. Doesn't take an MBA or an economist to be able to recognize a dud of a business plan.

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Old 02-20-2009, 11:01 AM   #58
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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I'm one of the negative members, obviously. However, it's not out of any disdain for Saturn or GM, far from it.

My opposition to throwing good money after bad with regards to Saturn lies in the economics of it. The car market has contracted severely over the past 18 months. Even the grandest, most intelligent ideas for Saturn going forward have little chance of succeeding. When I hear about a dealer owned Saturn, Saturn shops turned into Flying J truck stops, etc., I LOL. Doesn't take an MBA or an economist to be able to recognize a dud of a business plan.
Indeed. I take zero joy from seeing Saturn and GM belly flop. But people shouldn't have to feel like they can't express their opinion because some folks can't or won't deal with alternative viewpoints.

Best,

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Old 02-20-2009, 12:31 PM   #59
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

And unfourtunatly those petitions do little good unless each person that signed them also bought a brand new Saturn but they didn't.

Saturn had a good chance with the new lineup but a rather healthy bomb on the economy crippled Saturn. Saturn spent years trying to sell to a segment that produces little in the way of profits (compact economy cars). From what i have read on this forum there is just to many of us who kept our beloved S-series for too long. We did not comeback and buy a new one every 3 years and then when they finally gave us something new in the Ion we scoffed at it an kept our S's. When the reality of the costs and appearance of Polymer bodies was finally realized we scoffed at Saturn again and kept our S's. So now that Saturn is on the brink of failing we complain how they stopped building the S but we only ever bought one to begin with and we are still driving it.

I would like to see Saturn survive but i can't afford to buy any new car let alone the astra right now. and with no manufacturing facility and no independent engineering inplace to develop a new model I just dont see Saturn surviving.

GM is having trouble selling Hummer and Saab because those too are nothing more than badges. (Hummers line is all based of the Trailblazer and Colorado.) Saab is all rebadges of other GM products and one Subaru.

...
If it isn't broken.........Your not trying hard enough

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Old 02-20-2009, 01:12 PM   #60
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Default Re: Jill Lajdziak: We are Still Saturn

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From what i have read on this forum there is just to many of us who kept our beloved S-series for too long. We did not comeback and buy a new one every 3 years and then when they finally gave us something new in the Ion we scoffed at it an kept our S's.
Part of the fault for that goes to GM though (or whoever). They started downgrading options. I paid extra for 4 wheel disc brakes on my S. If I recall correctly, when I went and looked at the Ions, they had taken that option away, unless I went for a redline, which I didn't want or need. So yeah, I kept my S! I didn't want to go backwards.

Same problem when they came out with the Vue, or I would have gotten one. I did however buy an '02 L200, because I wanted a bigger car. Nice that I was finally able to get 4 weel discs again. I've read a lot of bad about the car, but mine has been great.

Oh, BTW, even with the L200, I still kept my S!

Andy

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