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Old 02-16-2009, 07:04 AM   #1
Charlie
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Default February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn "Pro

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February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn "Probably" Dies

Quote:
Jamie LaReau from Automotive News: Bob Lutz says GM's struggling Saturn brand probably won't survive. "My personal favorite would be to see Saturn survive and prosper," GM's vice chairman told Automotive News. "But frankly, the reality is that that is probably not going to be the outcome." He added: "We spent a huge bundle of money in giving Saturn an absolutely no-excuses product lineup, top to bottom. They had a better and fresher lineup than any GM division, and the sales just never materialized. So we have to act on that. It's our duty."

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Old 02-16-2009, 07:23 AM   #2
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Sad Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

That seals it for me as well. I had a good feeling this was going to be the fait for Saturn. As soon as the pulled funding and removed the future products from there site I knew it was over. I was right.
It was a good ride for a Saturn. At least it went out with a bang.
:t ear:

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Old 02-16-2009, 08:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Interesting that Lutz would say this...to me; his comments are the equivalent of a two-faced liar.

One one hand, he "supports" Saturn "My personal favorite would be to see Saturn survive and prosper,", but then on the other hand he's been part of the Stabbing in the back of Saturn since he first came to GM....

Thanks BOB for all of your HARD EARNED WORK...don't let June 1st hit you too hard on the way out....

Schmuck.

Thanks for "Everything".

This just confirms my affirmation that I will continue to drive the cars that I have now....screw GM and every other Car company. I'll drive the cars I own now until they can't be driven anymore.

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Old 02-16-2009, 08:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2NDSOUT View Post
Interesting that Lutz would say this...to me; his comments are the equivalent of a two-faced liar.

One one hand, he "supports" Saturn "My personal favorite would be to see Saturn survive and prosper,", but then on the other hand he's been part of the Stabbing in the back of Saturn since he first came to GM....

Thanks BOB for all of your HARD EARNED WORK...don't let June 1st hit you too hard on the way out....

Schmuck.

Thanks for "Everything".

This just confirms my affirmation that I will continue to drive the cars that I have now....screw GM and every other Car company. I'll drive the cars I own now until they can't be driven anymore.
Normally I don't quote myself.. but Lutz also said, from the same Article:

Lutz said he isn't sure why Saturn has not done better.

Whisky Tango Foxtrot!!!!! Did he REALLY say this?

Hmmm...let's see BOB...Starving Saturn of product and FUNDING over the years, giving the consumer FAILED products (Anyone remember the RELAY? Too little too late)....

Maybe if you had actually done some RESEARCH to find out what PEOPLE WANTED in a timely fashion...maybe Saturn would have done better....instead of joining every other company and outsourcing your materials (Astra and VUE Production come to mind)....

This comment to me proves that Lutz is really just Senile in his old age....

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Old 02-16-2009, 08:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Getting rid of the Ion was a big mistake.

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Old 02-16-2009, 09:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

It's quite obvious that division is too advanced a concept for anyone at GM.

For 2008
Saturn: 400 retailers, 5 models = 188,004 sales = 470 sales/retailer

Chevy: 4000 dealers, 15 models = 1,801,131 sales = 450 sales/dealer

GMC: 2200 dealers, 6 models = 376,996 sales = 171 sales/dealer

Cadillac: 1400 dealers, 6 models = 161,159 sales = 115 sales/dealer

Pontiac: 2700 dealers, 6 models = 267,348 sales = 99 sales/dealer

Buick: 2700 dealers, 3 models = 137,197 sales = 51 sales/dealer

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Old 02-16-2009, 09:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

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Originally Posted by BUBBLEMAN View Post
Getting rid of the Ion was a big mistake.
Agreed.

As I stated before, if they had just put a regular dash in it.

It is a fine car.

No, I don't wish to get into the 'dash' debate again. Just my opinion.

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Old 02-16-2009, 10:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
It's quite obvious that division is too advanced a concept for anyone at GM.

For 2008
Saturn: 400 retailers, 5 models = 188,004 sales = 470 sales/retailer

Chevy: 4000 dealers, 15 models = 1,801,131 sales = 450 sales/dealer

GMC: 2200 dealers, 6 models = 376,996 sales = 171 sales/dealer

Cadillac: 1400 dealers, 6 models = 161,159 sales = 115 sales/dealer

Pontiac: 2700 dealers, 6 models = 267,348 sales = 99 sales/dealer

Buick: 2700 dealers, 3 models = 137,197 sales = 51 sales/dealer
Glad someone posted these numbers. Maybe a little product advertising would increase the overall units sold by Saturn.? And they still outsold in total units Caddy AND Buick, the supposed mainstays for GM. Get a clue guys!

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:08 AM   #9
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Quote:
"We spent a huge bundle of money in giving Saturn an absolutely no-excuses product lineup, top to bottom. They had a better and fresher lineup than any GM division"
....and then they didn't advertise it.

I love Saturn and my Aura but it is unbelievably frustrating watching them whither away with a great lineup because nobody friggen knows about their cars. I admit it would have taken some time and effort to change Saturn's perception as cheap plastic econo-boxes but they never even gave them a chance.

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

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Originally Posted by ChgoBlues View Post
Glad someone posted these numbers. Maybe a little product advertising would increase the overall units sold by Saturn.? And they still outsold in total units Caddy AND Buick, the supposed mainstays for GM. Get a clue guys!
I agree.. MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING!
They never gave it a chance to sell..

Even when at Aura make NA Car of the Year.. Never saw any real advertising... How can they expect it to sell.

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

F-ck GM.

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:36 AM   #12
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Default The MBA mindset: "product", not cars

A pet peeve of mine is that the executives of American companies tend to view what the company creates as "product". They don't think in terms of cars, drill bits, notebook PCs, or wooden furniture. It's all just "product", as taught at business schools.

I think this matters because without passion for cars or whatever a company makes, it's hard to be great. I recall reading a study of companies in Southern California and the firms run by engineers who had risen through the ranks were much better off than firms run by finance-trained MBAs. I suspect that phenomenon is not unique to Southern Cal.

I hope that someday this country returns to the sort of business leadership that we see more often in German companies now. Hands-on scientists and engineers, not financial men who are most concerned about maximizing their payout from stock options. As the "product" withers on the vine underneath them.

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

GM is to big for the US market offering to many brands. The economy simply came along and exposed what many of us already knew.

Smaller will be better now so GM can be around later to maybe bring back Saturn like they are bringing back the Camaro. Well probable not........

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Makes me wonder what will happen with the "reorganization"... will Saturn simply be folded into Chevrolet (or Buick-Pontiac-GMC)? Or will they take a billion or so of bailout money and pay off the dealers to go away?

I was hoping to see what the next Aura would be, but maybe now it'll be a Pontiac.

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

I find it near hilarious that GM (after years of starving Saturn for product) throws a few rebadged GM twins in the Saturn line-up, launched all four vehicles on a fraction of the budget they used on the Malibu alone, and then claim they dumped all this new product, that barely arrived before the downturn, and want to make it the networks fault for not selling enough.

Has anyone noticed that compared to Saturn's little line of cars, Kia and Hyundai have been given products and look what happened?

Saturn was the answer to GM's woe's with imports, imagine if they had stuck with that mantra rather than starve the brand into failure.

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Old 02-16-2009, 11:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChgoBlues View Post
Glad someone posted these numbers. Maybe a little product advertising would increase the overall units sold by Saturn.? And they still outsold in total units Caddy AND Buick, the supposed mainstays for GM. Get a clue guys!
Do you expect any better when the ones who f*&ked up the company are the sameones who are going to save it?

GM might as well file for chapter 11.

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Old 02-16-2009, 12:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaySki View Post
I agree.. MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING!
They never gave it a chance to sell..

Even when at Aura make NA Car of the Year.. Never saw any real advertising... How can they expect it to sell.
There is never enough advertising!!

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Old 02-16-2009, 12:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
It's quite obvious that division is too advanced a concept for anyone at GM.

For 2008
Saturn: 400 retailers, 5 models = 188,004 sales = 470 sales/retailer

Chevy: 4000 dealers, 15 models = 1,801,131 sales = 450 sales/dealer

GMC: 2200 dealers, 6 models = 376,996 sales = 171 sales/dealer

Cadillac: 1400 dealers, 6 models = 161,159 sales = 115 sales/dealer

Pontiac: 2700 dealers, 6 models = 267,348 sales = 99 sales/dealer

Buick: 2700 dealers, 3 models = 137,197 sales = 51 sales/dealer
This sales/dealer number doesn't mean much if your product isn't as profitable. Because production volume ties in with part of the equation for net profit, 450 sales at $1 profit per sale is better than 470 sales at $0.50 profit per sale.

But really, these sales/dealer number is more for dealership's motivation. From GM, its all about volume. 1.8 mil product sales vs 188k product sales. Saturn sales volume is a measly 10% of that of Chevy's sales volume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChgoBlues
Glad someone posted these numbers. Maybe a little product advertising would increase the overall units sold by Saturn.? And they still outsold in total units Caddy AND Buick, the supposed mainstays for GM. Get a clue guys!
The more uplevel you go, in Cadillac and Buick case, generally the higher profit margins you have. They're low volume, high profit margin brands.

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Old 02-16-2009, 12:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

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This sales/dealer number doesn't mean much if your product isn't as profitable. Because production volume ties in with part of the equation for net profit, 450 sales at $1 profit per sale is better than 470 sales at $0.50 profit per sale.

But really, these sales/dealer number is more for dealership's motivation. From GM, its all about volume. 1.8 mil product sales vs 188k product sales. Saturn sales volume is a measly 10% of that of Chevy's sales volume.

The more uplevel you go, in Cadillac and Buick case, generally the higher profit margins you have. They're low volume, high profit margin brands.

Couldn't agree with your explanation more, and to my point, my concerns stem from product starvation. GM looked to upscale the product line to gain a better margin position, but lacked launch money and timely infusion of product. Today's predicament is caused by not introducing products long before this financial crisis, and when you finally do, you launch on a minimal budget, why? So you can say you tried? Based on every introduced platform being a GM sybling, sort of supports a conspiracy theory that this outcome was inevitable. Do not give Saturn a unique product to make it easier to absorb and dismantle, consume assets like their real estate in Spring Hill, and voila, the old regime kills the Saturn project they always detested.

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Old 02-16-2009, 12:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: February 17th Preview? Lutz Tells Automotive News that Despite Good Cars, Saturn

Saturn has been dead for years. It was doomed when the S-series wasn't revised and was GMised into the ION instead.

The L-series was a less than smart move, but it wasn't a deal breaker. The ION was a soft, weird, yet somehow unexciting, bleh-mobile when compared to the S-series. While the Redline tried to make up for it it was too big and floppy to take care of buisness. I don't mean to discourage ION owners who love their cars. But I'm sure you can see that a lot of stuff was tried all at once and some things just didn't play out for the best. Dispite what is probably the best 4 cylinder powerpant in the world, The ION just wasn't the car to base a company on.

The ION lost Saturn customers. It wasn't a bad car, but it was bigger, weirder and less Saturn-like. Many of my family members bought S-cars; Over the years there were (8 in my immediate family. We even had 3 L-series. But not one ION. I test drove the ION when it first came out and didn't like it. It was big and GMish with weird ergonomics.

GM took Saturns best selling model and replaced it with a car that just didn't fit in. It didn't sell to the the S-series buyer and left them dry. When replacingthe S-series, GM saw Saturns "different" as weird and made a weird car.

Then when the ION flopped GM decided that was proof that Saturn was dying and they needed to head anouther direction. Rather than returning to Saturn roots (Good Value, Different thinking) they decided that the brand should move upscale. This, along with getting rid of the "Saturn Homecoming", moving production out of Springhill, getting rid of 0 haggle, etc..., all further seperating the brand from its fanbase.

GM "tried" to save Saturn by rebadging some very high quality products from Europe. But their timing was horrid. The dollar lost value and they nearly broke even on the imported Saturns. They were a good value for the buyer though. Just a poor situation for GM.

Saturn will die because of GM mismanagement. GM management has been killing the brand since 2002 and the latest economic situation just closes the deal. It is sad because Saturn could have continued to make good competitive cars. But remember GM of the past 10 years or so has really been about selling car loans, not good cars.

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