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Old 01-31-2009, 06:06 PM   #1
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Default General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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Barbara Wieland from the Lansing State Journal: Domestic automakers are hoping more people prefer their home country when it comes time to buy a vehicle. Doing so, some believe, could save thousands of jobs. Just ask Brian Fredline, president of United Auto Workers union Local 602. Local 602 represents workers at GM's Lansing Delta Township plant.

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Old 01-31-2009, 06:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

What a load of crap. If GM cared about being "patriotic" and protecting American jobs, it wouldn't be importing cars from Mexico, Europe, China, Korea, and who knows where else...

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Old 01-31-2009, 07:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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What a load of crap. If GM cared about being "patriotic" and protecting American jobs, it wouldn't be importing cars from Mexico, Europe, China, Korea, and who knows where else...
The whole thing is a load of horse hockey. GM is a global company. They have manufacturing and assembly plants all over the world. I guess if people want to be "patriotic" they shouldn't buy the VUE (assembled in Mexico) or the Astra (assembled in Belgium)...not that it matters since nobody seems to be buying the Astras anyway. By this bullshiznit test, people ought to be buying Toyotas and Hondas that are assembled right here in the USofA.

When GM and the UAW have to plead with people to buy their crap based on some misguided sense of "patriotism" they've already effectively lost the battle. A true "patriot" would buy the best product which would force the laggards (whether they're foreign or domestic) to either produce better quality cars or join the T-Rex as a fossil. Enough is enough. Build better cars and cars that people actually want to buy or just cut the bull and go out of business already. I can think of a lot better places to put taxpayer dollars than in a company that consistently loses money and can't manufacture or market its way out of a wet paper bag.

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Old 01-31-2009, 07:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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The whole thing is a load of horse hockey. GM is a global company. They have manufacturing and assembly plants all over the world. I guess if people want to be "patriotic" they shouldn't buy the VUE (assembled in Mexico) or the Astra (assembled in Belgium)...not that it matters since nobody seems to be buying the Astras anyway. By this bullshiznit test, people ought to be buying Toyotas and Hondas that are assembled right here in the USofA.

When GM and the UAW have to plead with people to buy their crap based on some misguided sense of "patriotism" they've already effectively lost the battle. A true "patriot" would buy the best product which would force the laggards (whether they're foreign or domestic) to either produce better quality cars or join the T-Rex as a fossil. Enough is enough. Build better cars and cars that people actually want to buy or just cut the bull and go out of business already. I can think of a lot better places to put taxpayer dollars than in a company that consistently loses money and can't manufacture or market its way out of a wet paper bag.
Cheers,
Wow. Because I don't want to be branded a troll, I won't comment on that. Be prepared to be called a troll. Not by me, of course.

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Old 01-31-2009, 08:08 PM   #5
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Arrow Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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Because I don't want to be branded a troll, I won't comment on that.
Name calling is against the rules of this forum. Please report any posts where you feel you've been attacked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz
GM is a global company.
Exactly! And so is Toyota and Honda and VW and Ford, etc... in order to survive, all automakers have gone "global." That being said, I don't see what's wrong for rooting for the home team. Competition has forced GM to improve. The Aura, Vue, Malibu, CTS, Sky, and Astra are just some examples. I'd argue that my Outlook is just as good or BETTER than anything else in its class from Japan, Korea, or Europe...

GM is suffering right now because of mistakes it made in the past, not because its cars aren't on par with the competition today. The notion that GM builds inferior cars is old-school and a cheap shot.

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Old 01-31-2009, 08:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

I do find that article a bit ironic considering the Globalization of GM, Ford and Chrysler. Over half or more content comes from another country which makes it nearly impossible to "Buy Only American". Yes, I would like to Buy Made in USA, but what a challenge to do so. Foriegn made products have been consistently higher quality than American products, what a shame, but US car makers are bringing over and domesticating European quality, giving us better products than a decade ago. The only recourse is to support Amercan jobs, starting locally, whatever thier goods and services.

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Old 01-31-2009, 08:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
The notion that GM builds inferior cars is old-school and a cheap shot.
GM is still wildly inconsistent. When you buy a Honda or Toyota, you can be reasonably sure that the quality will be consistent across the entire lineup. When you buy a GM vehicle, it really depends on the plant that it was produced in. Even recently, GM produced some very poor products, including its uncompetitive, unreliable minivans that included the Saturn Relay.

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Old 01-31-2009, 08:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

here's the list of vehicles you're allowed to buy
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2009/


2009 VEHICLES BUILT BY UNION MEMBERS
IN THE UNITED STATES & CANADA

UAW CARS

Buick Lucerne
Cadillac CTS
Cadillac DTS
Cadillac STS
Cadillac XLR
Chevrolet Cobalt
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Malibu/Hybrid
Chrysler Sebring Convertible
Chrysler Sebring Sedan
Dodge Avenger
Dodge Caliber
Dodge Viper
Ford Focus
Ford Mustang
Ford Taurus
Lincoln MKS
Mazda6
Mercury Sable
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder
Mitsubishi Galant
Pontiac G5
Pontiac G6
Pontiac Solstice
Pontiac Vibe
Saturn Aura/Hybrid
Saturn Sky
Toyota Corolla*

UAW PICKUPS

Chevrolet Colorado
Chevrolet Silverado*
Dodge Dakota
Dodge Ram Pickup
Ford F Series*
Ford Ranger
GMC Canyon
GMC Sierra*
Mazda B-Series
Toyota Tacoma*

UAW SUVs/CUVs

Buick Enclave
Cadillac Escalade/Hybrid
Cadillac Escalade ESV
Cadillac SRX
Chevrolet Suburban*
Chevrolet Tahoe*/Hybrid
Chevrolet Traverse
Chrysler Aspen/Hybrid
Dodge Durango/Hybrid
Dodge Nitro
Ford Escape/Hybrid
Ford Expedition
Ford Explorer
Ford Explorer Sport Trac
Ford Taurus X
GMC Acadia
GMC Yukon*/Hybrid
H2 Hummer
H3 Hummer
Jeep Commander
Jeep Compass
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Jeep Liberty
Jeep Patriot
Jeep Wrangler
Lincoln Navigator
Mazda Tribute/Hybrid
Mercury Mariner/Hybrid
Mercury Mountaineer
Mitsubishi Endeavor
Saturn Outlook

UAW VANS

Chevrolet Express
Dodge Caravan
Ford Econoline
GMC Savana

CAW CARS

Buick Lacrosse
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Impala
Chrysler 300
Dodge Challenger
Dodge Charger
Ford Crown Victoria
Lincoln Town Car
Mercury Grand Marquis

CAW SUVs/CUVs

Chevrolet Equinox
Ford Edge
Ford Flex
Lincoln MKT
Lincoln MKX
Pontiac Torrent
Suzuki XL7
UAW/CAW PICKUPS

Chevrolet Silverado*/Hybrid
GMC Sierra*/Hybrid

UAW/CAW Vans

Chrysler Town & Country
Dodge Caravan
Volkswagen Routan

IUE SUVs/CUVs

Chevrolet Trailblazer
GMC Envoy

...
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:27 PM   #9
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Dizzy Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

Heyyyy....who snuck Mitsubishi in there? thought we weren't paying attention, didn'tja?

Chevy Colorado? GMC Canyon? anyone know who makes the I-5 engine? Not made here. Like I said, it's hard to find anything 100% USA made. There's some good USA bets in that list though, made in Ohio, Ky, Michigan, Wilmington DE....I dunno about other brands, but as far as GM ,look for the Made in sticker inside the driver's door.

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Old 01-31-2009, 09:29 PM   #10
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Arrow Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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GM is still wildly inconsistent. When you buy a Honda or Toyota, you can be reasonably sure that the quality will be consistent across the entire lineup.
Not necessarily. I don't think GM is any more inconsistent than most manufacturers in the industry. Even Toyota gets beaten up in surveys every once in awhile.

This discussion is is a good example of the perception issue GM is battling right now. While the quality gap has narrowed significantly between all automakers, the improvements haven't translated into increased market share for the Big 3. Honda and Toyota worked hard years ago at improving their quality -- and they deserve the reputation they have today. But GM has also made marked improvements in recent years. They build vehicles that deserve equal consideration from shoppers. Unfortunately, it seems that its going to be a long time before that happens. GM is finding out the hard way that you can't regain consumers' trust and confidence overnight.

Charlie

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Old 01-31-2009, 10:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

See, I don't believe GM is battling a perception problem NOW. I think it is the same problem they have had since the 1970's.

Sure their cars have improved, they had great ideas like the original Saturn (which they killed), they have made some good strides forward, but the fact remains that a large portion of the population doesn't like domestic cars and doesn't like the UAW.

Heck, people like me who were at least very loyal and strong supporters of Saturn are now soured by GM. They pretty much ignored everyone who griped about the death of Springhill, the Saturn way of doing things, polymer, small/inexpensive/good cars, etc., and convinced themselves a new lineup of re-badges and imported cars would be far more profitable.

Sorry, but the 'buy American," BS doesn't even work on people like me anymore. If I am spending $20-40K+ on a new car I can tell you right now it would most likely not be from a domestic car maker, especially after my recent Chevy sales experience.

If GM and the domestics were a horse we would have put a mercy bullet into the head long ago.

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Old 01-31-2009, 10:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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GM is finding out the hard way that you can't regain consumers' trust and confidence overnight.
Actually, GM regained my confidence and trust by creating Saturn and adopting better practices. I likely would have ended up purchasing the Mazda 626 that I test drove in '97 had it not been for Saturn. The Spring Hill built cars, with their solid reliability ratings and features such as the timing chain, easy maintenance, durable plastic body panels, good crash test ratings (for their day), sporty styling and impressive feature list for their class won me over when I otherwise would not have purchased a GM car. When GM took every attribute about Saturn that attracted me to the brand, and flushed it down the toilet, I went back to buying imports. At least my Subaru Legacy was assembled in the United States, unlike many of the new Saturns!

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Old 01-31-2009, 11:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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Wow. Because I don't want to be branded a troll, I won't comment on that. Be prepared to be called a troll. Not by me, of course.
Sometimes you just need to call a spade a spade. This is a discussion board. People shouldn't be afraid of expressing their opinion. As far as I know, trolls don't normally hang out in the tech sections and help people solve problems with their cars. The hard core trolls are in "off topic".

Cheers,

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Old 01-31-2009, 11:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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The notion that GM builds inferior cars is old-school and a cheap shot.
It wasn't intended as a cheap shot. I think it's a fairly accurate assessment of things today. GM might have gotten better, but it's still lagging the competition. That is a fact...and the steady decline in sales (as a percentage of total auto sales) shows it. So people can go round and round about WHY, but the fact of the matter is that GM is consistently losing market share. If their cars were on par with their competitors, I don't think that would be the case.

Cheers,

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Old 02-01-2009, 12:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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It wasn't intended as a cheap shot. I think it's a fairly accurate assessment of things today. GM might have gotten better, but it's still lagging the competition. That is a fact...and the steady decline in sales (as a percentage of total auto sales) shows it. So people can go round and round about WHY, but the fact of the matter is that GM is consistently losing market share. If their cars were on par with their competitors, I don't think that would be the case.
Some GM cars might be on par with the competition. Maybe a new Chevy Malibu is on par with a Honda Accord. I don't know, but I know it's supposed to be close at least. But is it too little too late?

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Old 02-01-2009, 12:27 AM   #16
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

The majority of N. American vehicle purchasers will no doubt proclaim the higher quality of manufacturing and superior engineering of Japanese manufacturers. I was in a friend's 4 year old Honda Accord with over 100 k miles on it and it was more solid and rattle free than any domestic vehicle I've ever been in. That includes Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Chrysler 300's. Why didn't I buy a Japanese vehicle when my lease ended on my '05 Equinox? It was all about the money, 0% financing for 72 months + cash back. It would have cost me at least $5k more to be in a Toyota Corolla than a comparable Chevy Cobalt. Since I'd rather put an extra $5k into an 8% yielding bond than a car, the Cobalt was my next ride. If money wasn't an issue I would never buy a N. American vehicle. Am I being negative? Not at all. Until the N. American manufacturers step up and build cars like the Camry's, Accord's, and Sonata's, they'll keep losing market share. Yes, the new Malibu's are very highly rated, but even when you close the doors on them you don't get that Accord "thump". It's no wonder at all why Toyota is now the top selling vehicle manufacturer in the world. GM has a lot of catching up to do. I hope the Chevy Cruze will be a quality solid vehicle and not just a good looker. Saturn? That's a whole other story.

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Old 02-01-2009, 01:52 AM   #17
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If their cars were on par with their competitors, I don't think that would be the case.
VTHokie00SL2 brings up a good example: the new Malibu. Critics widely praise the car as being just as good, if not superior to, its competition. Yet, the Camry's sales were almost 50% higher in December. The Camry's sales for 2008 totaled more than 2x the Malibu. I think that points to a perception issue. I'd bet that most folks who bought an Accord or Camry in December didn't even consider the Malibu, despite the positive reviews, quality awards, and comparisons its foreign competition.

Saturn is up against what might even be a worse problem: a lack of awareness. A lot of folks I talk to don't even realize that Saturn has expanded their product line beyond small cars. Boggles my mind every time. If Saturn had an advertising budget large enough to adequately launch and support 5 vehicles, I don't think we'd be debating Saturn's future today...

Charlie

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Old 02-01-2009, 08:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

Bring back the SL or the ION and I will buy USA. If not the UAW can forget about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Opels are not made in the USA and it looks like they are not wanted, I don't want one

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Old 02-01-2009, 09:19 AM   #19
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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VTHokie00SL2 brings up a good example: the new Malibu. Critics widely praise the car as being just as good, if not superior to, its competition. Yet, the Camry's sales were almost 50% higher in December. The Camry's sales for 2008 totaled more than 2x the Malibu. I think that points to a perception issue. I'd bet that most folks who bought an Accord or Camry in December didn't even consider the Malibu, despite the positive reviews, quality awards, and comparisons its foreign competition.

Saturn is up against what might even be a worse problem: a lack of awareness. A lot of folks I talk to don't even realize that Saturn has expanded their product line beyond small cars. Boggles my mind every time. If Saturn had an advertising budget large enough to adequately launch and support 5 vehicles, I don't think we'd be debating Saturn's future today...

Charlie
Yes, I agree with you that GM is paying a heavy price for past indiscretions. You can't screw your customer base repeatedly and then tell them "Aw, come on back...it's better now." So the Malibu may indeed be on par with its foreign counterparts, but many people aren't going to roll the dice on GM again. However, that's just ONE vehicle of the many that GM produces and there's also the added dynamic of people worrying that GM will go out of business and leave them hanging. Pining away about GM's lack of Saturn advertising is wasted breath. It's water under the bridge and we're WAY past that point now. It doesn't matter anymore.

Despite what your perception of the Malibu is, owner surveys and sales numbers show that GM has deep systemic problems with quality and its mix of product. That is the reason for their failure. The "financial crisis" is just the trigger for a potential mortal blow. The better run companies are also hurting, but they're not on the verge of collapse as a result.

Cheers,

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Old 02-01-2009, 10:33 AM   #20
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Default Re: General Motors, UAW Push Patriotic Buying

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or the Astra (assembled in Belgium)...not that it matters since nobody seems to be buying the Astras anyway.
Cheers,
Technically, the Astra is still selling well, just not to Americans.

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