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Old 12-20-2008, 11:22 AM   #1
Someclown
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2002 VUE 3.0L
Dizzy oil leak

oil started leaking in the front of my 3.0L vue engine smoke coming from engine compartment all of a sudden when the air temperature hit -30 C.
Does anyone have a clue as to what may cause this to happen???

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Old 12-20-2008, 07:44 PM   #2
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: oil leak

Can you give us more info. Wow, -30 is cold!

I had to replace the valve cover gaskets on my V6 2003 VUE. You could smell the burning oil in the cabin because the air intake is right in front of the driver.

I had both covers replaced when I did my 100 kMiles service.

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Old 12-21-2008, 08:01 AM   #3
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Default Re: oil leak

Someclown ... the climate appears to be changing toward the cold side.

Its -12 F in my part of Iowa this morning ... the chill factor is probably 25 degrees below that.

I hope you get lots of suggestions.

My two cents ... you could have a clogged crankcase ventilation system. I'm not certain what type PCV loop your Saturn uses but its happened with me on several types of vehicle.

The hoses, valves, passages, etc could have developed internal condensation which freezes and blocks air flow when the air temp drops. Positive pressure builds inside the engine (including valve cover) forcing the oil to do unnatural things.

I had a 86 VW Vanagon which would belch smoke like I'd broken a piston until the engine warmed up sufficiently to thaw the mess from one 24 inch section of hose. I removed and warmed the hose until a few ounces of goop drained out. The VW ran perfectly thereafter.

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Old 12-21-2008, 04:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: oil leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
Someclown ... the climate appears to be changing toward the cold side.

Its -12 F in my part of Iowa this morning ... the chill factor is probably 25 degrees below that.

I hope you get lots of suggestions.

My two cents ... you could have a clogged crankcase ventilation system. I'm not certain what type PCV loop your Saturn uses but its happened with me on several types of vehicle.

The hoses, valves, passages, etc could have developed internal condensation which freezes and blocks air flow when the air temp drops. Positive pressure builds inside the engine (including valve cover) forcing the oil to do unnatural things.

I had a 86 VW Vanagon which would belch smoke like I'd broken a piston until the engine warmed up sufficiently to thaw the mess from one 24 inch section of hose. I removed and warmed the hose until a few ounces of goop drained out. The VW ran perfectly thereafter.
Good answer. He might just check the oil canister cap too.

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Old 12-31-2008, 10:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: oil leak

The oil leak fixed itself but thanks for your input to the problem,I like those kind of repairs especially when its -30C outside.
It was just the PCV valve blowing by because of the outside temperature and as you said ,condensation inside the engine .I will be flushing the engine at my next oil change and see if the condensation problem persists.
This is a 2002 Vue 3.0L AWD 149000km, the oil was a heavy mist in the engine compartment on the right side of the motor, that's the belt side and spraying around the front right side of the engine and compartment.
One more thing, the all wheel drive is awesome, you need to really use it to the max in order for it to work good dont baby it and expect it to work,make it work for you.With all the snow we've been getting up here in Sudbury Canada in the past two months I make it work for me.It works as good or better than my 98 Sierra 4x4.

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Old 12-31-2008, 05:57 PM   #6
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: oil leak

Engine/Emissions - Oil Leaks In Sub-Freezing Temps.
File in Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-001

Issue Date: January, 2004

Subject:
Oil Leaks from Engine After Sub-Freezing Temperatures (Remove Ice/Water
from Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) Hose and Re-route Hose)
Models Affected:
2002-2003 Saturn VUE Vehicles
with 3.0L V6 Engine (VIN B - RPO L81)
Attention: Technician

Condition:

Some customers may comment on oil leaks from the engine during or following sub freezing temperatures.

Cause:

This condition may be caused by water freezing in the PCV hose located between the throttle body and oil separator causing high crank case pressures resulting in oil leaks.

Correction:

Remove ice/water from PCV hose and re-route hose to eliminate low sections to prevent blockage in sub-freezing temperatures. Refer to service procedure in this bulletin. Repair oil leaks using the appropriate Saturn Engine Service Manual.




1. Remove PCV hose from throttle body to PCV oil separator.
Important : Do not remove the braided covering from the hose.
2. Remove rubber isolator from PCV hose.



3. Cut the PCV hose to length as shown. Remove 65 mm (2.5 in) from the throttle body end of the hose.



4. Install PCV hose over intake manifold. Ensure routing is between the A/C line and the intake manifold.



5. Install hose clamp over PCV hose at oil separator.
6. Remove the front Outlet Resonator/Duct Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolt.
7. Install hose retainer, P/N 2043150, over PCV hose and secure with Air Cleaner Outlet Resonator Bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the Outlet Resonator/Duct
Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolts (L81)
to 10 N.m (89 in-lbs).







8. Install PCV hose on throttle body and secure clamp.
Important :Ensure nylon chaff protection is positioned between rubber hose and intake manifold at contact areas.



Parts Information:

Claim Information:

To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period, submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for J6020 (Hose, Crankcase Case Ventilation - Replace).

...
PBW
"nasty" vue , 2003 awd v6.

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Old 01-01-2009, 12:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: oil leak

PBW ... I'd rank your post in the top-five of most informative ones I've read.

I don't have the 3.0L engine but have read enough posts to understand there are many in sub-freezing regions with clogged PCV components resulting in crankcase over-pressure.

Many owners could benefit from implementing these fixes to reduce likelihood of damaging valve cover gaskets.

To use an expression I often heard in the military: You done good!

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Old 01-02-2009, 04:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: oil leak

Excellent, excellent post for the fix. When I first heard of this problem here on the forum, I thought of a possible strategy to prevent it. In very cold temps, start the engine and let it idle until warmed up. Turn it off and let it stand for 15 minutes, which should melt any ice in the PCV lines. If you can't avoid short trips, be sure to let it idle and get fully warmed before turning off.
This doesn't fix anything, but could prevent an oil eruption until the hose can be looked at. The worst thing you can do with this problem is to drive right off after a cold soak in frigid temperatures. You have to understand that all engines have 'blow-by' which is combustion pressure getting past the rings and pressurizing the crankcase. Water is a huge by-product of this combustion and condenses in the cold PCV hose. Idling engines produce less blow-by and there is no cooling air moving on the parked VUE - the electric fan won't come on until it gets really hot. So, under this condition heat in the engine compartment should warm the PCV hose adequately to prevent ice blockage when you drive off.

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Old 01-03-2009, 09:46 AM   #9
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: oil leak

PBW got him a copy of the service manual! I note the 3.0 has camshaft covers not valve covers, and there are two gaskets for each two front head, two back head. They leak on the 3.0 very often. Service manual mentions using a permatemp sealant as part of the gasketing process as well. Why the hell do they do this> SEALANT of all things>>>>>??????

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Old 01-04-2009, 11:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: oil leak

Excellent post pbw I am on my way to do this repair on the hose right now before this happens again.Thanks a lot for the detailed repair information its much appreciated .

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Old 01-04-2009, 12:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: oil leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayzur9 View Post
PBW got him a copy of the service manual! I note the 3.0 has camshaft covers not valve covers, and there are two gaskets for each two front head, two back head. They leak on the 3.0 very often. Service manual mentions using a permatemp sealant as part of the gasketing process as well. Why the hell do they do this> SEALANT of all things>>>>>??????
It's common practice to use a sealant on rocker/cam covers and has been for about 100 years.

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Old 01-20-2009, 05:34 PM   #12
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2002 VUE 3.0L
Question Re: oil leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbw View Post
Engine/Emissions - Oil Leaks In Sub-Freezing Temps.
File in Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-001

Issue Date: January, 2004

Subject:
Oil Leaks from Engine After Sub-Freezing Temperatures (Remove Ice/Water
from Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) Hose and Re-route Hose)
Models Affected:
2002-2003 Saturn VUE Vehicles
with 3.0L V6 Engine (VIN B - RPO L81)
Attention: Technician

Condition:

Some customers may comment on oil leaks from the engine during or following sub freezing temperatures.

Cause:

This condition may be caused by water freezing in the PCV hose located between the throttle body and oil separator causing high crank case pressures resulting in oil leaks.

Correction:

Remove ice/water from PCV hose and re-route hose to eliminate low sections to prevent blockage in sub-freezing temperatures. Refer to service procedure in this bulletin. Repair oil leaks using the appropriate Saturn Engine Service Manual.




1. Remove PCV hose from throttle body to PCV oil separator.
Important : Do not remove the braided covering from the hose.
2. Remove rubber isolator from PCV hose.



3. Cut the PCV hose to length as shown. Remove 65 mm (2.5 in) from the throttle body end of the hose.



4. Install PCV hose over intake manifold. Ensure routing is between the A/C line and the intake manifold.



5. Install hose clamp over PCV hose at oil separator.
6. Remove the front Outlet Resonator/Duct Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolt.
7. Install hose retainer, P/N 2043150, over PCV hose and secure with Air Cleaner Outlet Resonator Bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the Outlet Resonator/Duct
Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolts (L81)
to 10 N.m (89 in-lbs).







8. Install PCV hose on throttle body and secure clamp.
Important :Ensure nylon chaff protection is positioned between rubber hose and intake manifold at contact areas.



Parts Information:

Claim Information:

To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period, submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for J6020 (Hose, Crankcase Case Ventilation - Replace).
does anyone have pic's of this repair

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Old 01-20-2009, 08:51 PM   #13
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: oil leak

I'll post the photos in the morning.

...
PBW
"nasty" vue , 2003 awd v6.

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Old 01-21-2009, 07:43 AM   #14
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: oil leak

Engine/Emissions - Oil Leaks In Sub-Freezing Temps.
File in Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 04-06-01-001

Issue Date: January, 2004

Subject:
Oil Leaks from Engine After Sub-Freezing Temperatures (Remove Ice/Water
from Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) Hose and Re-route Hose)
Models Affected:
2002-2003 Saturn VUE Vehicles
with 3.0L V6 Engine (VIN B - RPO L81)
Attention: Technician

Condition:

Some customers may comment on oil leaks from the engine during or following sub freezing temperatures.

Cause:

This condition may be caused by water freezing in the PCV hose located between the throttle body and oil separator causing high crank case pressures resulting in oil leaks.

Correction:

Remove ice/water from PCV hose and re-route hose to eliminate low sections to prevent blockage in sub-freezing temperatures. Refer to service procedure in this bulletin. Repair oil leaks using the appropriate Saturn Engine Service Manual.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...3/ppuser/39758

1. Remove PCV hose from throttle body to PCV oil separator.
Important : Do not remove the braided covering from the hose.
2. Remove rubber isolator from PCV hose.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...4/ppuser/39758

3. Cut the PCV hose to length as shown. Remove 65 mm (2.5 in) from the throttle body end of the hose.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...5/ppuser/39758

4. Install PCV hose over intake manifold. Ensure routing is between the A/C line and the intake manifold.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...7/ppuser/39758

5. Install hose clamp over PCV hose at oil separator.
6. Remove the front Outlet Resonator/Duct Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolt.
7. Install hose retainer, P/N 2043150, over PCV hose and secure with Air Cleaner Outlet Resonator Bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the Outlet Resonator/Duct
Assembly-to-Support Bracket Bolts (L81)
to 10 N.m (89 in-lbs).

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...6/ppuser/39758

8. Install PCV hose on throttle body and secure clamp.
Important :Ensure nylon chaff protection is positioned between rubber hose and intake manifold at contact areas.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...8/ppuser/39758


Parts Information:

Claim Information:

To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period, submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for J6020 (Hose, Crankcase Case Ventilation - Replace).

...
PBW
"nasty" vue , 2003 awd v6.

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Old 02-13-2011, 07:32 PM   #15
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2003 VUE 3.0L
Default Re: oil leak

Figured I'd just bump this old thread.
I've been having this EXACT same issue with oil leaking and burning when it miserably cold outside. I took it in to have it looked at and they determined that my valve cover gasket needed to be replaced so I had them do that.

Today, it was about 45 degrees outside so it wasn't cold at all. I still let the car warm up a tad but by the end of my driving I could smell oil again and see a little smoke. Would this still be the PCV line? or something else? I have these pictures (pre-valve gasket replacement) but I can't tell exactly where the smoke is coming from.

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Old 02-13-2011, 07:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: oil leak



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Old 02-13-2011, 08:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: oil leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
Someclown ... the climate appears to be changing toward the cold side.

Its -12 F in my part of Iowa this morning ... the chill factor is probably 25 degrees below that.
The earth is actually is a cooling cycle which lead to the last ice age. Only mans changes to the environment has prevented it from being worse.

What is bother me more is the shift of the magnetic pole. Possibly all of this is related...

It may not necessarily being global warming, but a shift of climates from the poles moving.

...
2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 7 Beta 7

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Old 02-14-2011, 11:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: oil leak

Droth, have you rerouted the PVC hose over the plastic intake cover then flush your engine to rid the condensation ?
the pics are were some of the oil was building up in my engine compartment when this happened to me.
For the most part I believe the oil blows by the end seals were they contact the cam shafts and not through the cam cover seals but does no damage to the seal or shafts. I know this because oil will not be all over the hood insulation and right side engine compartment if it leaked down from the cam covers. If that were the case the front, rear and top of the engine would be oil soaked, which its not, correct?. It comes out the seals, blows onto the pulleyes and serpentine belt and gets thrown and blown throughout the right side engine compartment and undercarriage and also drips down on to the exhaust manifold and pipe and builds up on the exhaust flange, there may be very, very slight leaks through the cam covers but mostly the end seals and may even blow the dipstick out enough to leak out of it.
I have remote starters in all my vehicles and use them to their fullest so the vehicles are always warmed up enough to melt any condensation in the engine before I drive away and always up to full temp. when parked.
I didnt put the clamp back on the hose were it meets the air intake and once in a while when its cold as Iqaluit out I'll pull it off and blow in the hose and low and behold the condensation is there plugging the hose/PCV valve again.
In my belief it is just poor design, maybe Opel suppliers got the PVC from Toyota suppliers, I know Toyota had severe sludge problems in there 3.0L engine as well,quite possibly the same PCV system.
This happened to me again last week when the temps. went down to -29C
with the hose rerouted and no low spots in it
Another engine flush and oil change for me before its time
I was really hoping it was going to start a fire and burn to the ground this time, maybe next time
I'm glad I have a few back up vehicles to drive and will not even touch this piece again when temps go below -15C. this will save me some money on engine flush and synthetic oil
BobbyP its quite possible the poles are shifting in the Canadians favor we haven't had anywhere near as close to the amount of snow or length of winter here for the past few years. last year winter ended here in March usually its April, this year is looking the same so far
+7C this week with rain to melt our one foot of snow we got this winter,
so much for snowmobiling down to the lake to go ice fishing this week

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Old 02-15-2011, 11:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: oil leak

No I haven't yet. I don't have the tools or the expertise to do it myself at the moment. I'm not terribly sure how to go about doing it even with the previous posts.

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Old 12-19-2013, 09:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: oil leak

thanks alot! Good advice, should do timing belt now too? at 122000

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