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Old 12-10-2008, 06:54 AM   #1
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Default Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplate in

A new feeditems entry has been added:

Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplate in Limbo?

Quote:
Jerry Flint from Forbes: In order to appease Congress, General Motors executives have said their new "return to prosperity" plan involves saving Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC and "dumping" (selling, downsizing or closing) Pontiac, Hummer, Saab and Saturn. Does this plan make any sense?

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

The ambiguity obviously will not help sales at a time when other factors are already severely hurting business. Anything that hurts consumer confidence is a negative.

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Old 12-10-2008, 10:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

Never ever underestimate the stupidity of management. That is something that I learned from working in retail sales. You know common sense would indicate that GM should put out a statement soon regarding Saturn but in their typical fashion they will make a mess. In the meantime sales will still be dismal because of economic conditions and the holiday season. GM's dithering certainly doesn't help.

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Old 12-10-2008, 11:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

I love my Saturn. I rather have Buick and Cadillac go! A Buick?!?!?! Please, does those cars sale?

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Old 12-10-2008, 11:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

It sure seems like car- buyers are steering clear. We get on average 1-2 guests per day in this facility, and ours WAS in the Top 30 Saturn dealerships in the US out of 400+. It's like a ghost town here. 2 Sales consultants have been let go, and now were down to four just to cover the showroom hours and the internet leads which are few. 4 other team members have been cut or hours reduced. Sales have dropped way down...enough doom and gloom, but I swear I just saw a tumbleweed!

...
"According to a recent study, it was found that children are hereditary. If your parents didnít have any, chances are you wonít have any either."- Jackie Mason

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Old 12-10-2008, 12:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

Doesn't GM sell Saturns under the brand name "Opel" in Europe? Maybe they could merge the two brands and change the name from Saturn to Opel all around?

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Old 12-10-2008, 12:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

I just signed up to make a short statement as a previous Saturn owner.

I purchased a Saturn SL1 (older model) in 1995.
My wife leased a Saturn SL1 (newer model) in 1997.
My brother-in-law purchased a Saturn SL2 in 1998.

We loved our cars and we loved the Saturn company. Noticed I spoke in the past tense.

We all have replaced our Saturn cars with 3 Hondas. I have a Honda Fit. Krystal has a Honda CRV and Kevin has a Honda Accord.

Why did we buy Honda cars over new Saturns? Well the old Saturns were very reliable...easily as reliable as our Honda cars...but GM took the Saturn company in the wrong direction. Now the Saturn cars are just re-badged GM cars.

I was so sad to see Saturn go in this direction and that was the very reason for dropping our brand loyalty. My entire family has COMPLETELY given up on American cars. The Saturn was our last, great hope.

GM would be better returning the Saturn company back to its roots, but it is probably much too late for that now. Rightfully blame GM for the death of Saturn.

Joe Edwards

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Old 12-10-2008, 01:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Edwards View Post
I just signed up to make a short statement as a previous Saturn owner.

I purchased a Saturn SL1 (older model) in 1995.
My wife leased a Saturn SL1 (newer model) in 1997.
My brother-in-law purchased a Saturn SL2 in 1998.

We loved our cars and we loved the Saturn company. Noticed I spoke in the past tense.

We all have replaced our Saturn cars with 3 Hondas. I have a Honda Fit. Krystal has a Honda CRV and Kevin has a Honda Accord.

Why did we buy Honda cars over new Saturns? Well the old Saturns were very reliable...easily as reliable as our Honda cars...but GM took the Saturn company in the wrong direction. Now the Saturn cars are just re-badged GM cars.

I was so sad to see Saturn go in this direction and that was the very reason for dropping our brand loyalty. My entire family has COMPLETELY given up on American cars. The Saturn was our last, great hope.

GM would be better returning the Saturn company back to its roots, but it is probably much too late for that now. Rightfully blame GM for the death of Saturn.

Joe Edwards

This is the kind of short-sighted attitude that I just can't stand. It's frightening, however and GM needs to confront it. People willing to turn to Hondas ad other foreign brands because they feel personally hurt over changes in Saturn's lineup.

I'm sorry, but I do not own a Saturn. I actually own a Hyundai. It's been an OK car for the most part, with a few major warranty repairs (like a whole new engine replacement). But, like a Honda or a Toyota, it's not really a car. It's an appliance -- a point a-to-b, vanilla appliance with wheels. My old Audi was a real car, exciting, solid and an absolute joy to drive and it even had a name (my mechanic knew it well....). But the Hyundai? Feh. Still unnamed although 'Old POS' sometimes comes to mind....

It's a shame GM/Saturn has let Saturn go to hell like this, but whatever is done with the brand, the important thing is that GM itself MUST survive to fight another day, to someday create new Saturns or something similar. People switching loyalties to Japanese appliance-cars is definitely part of the underlying problem.

I don't know what's going to happen to Saturn or GM or the rest -- but one thing I do know. My next car will be American. Assuming there are any American automakers left!

And today the f-ing Republicans in the Senate just announced they are going to try to block aid to the automakers..... Unreal what kind of counrtry are we living in!

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Old 12-10-2008, 02:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

The problem with the general American car buying public is that they are sheep...

throw them a line that says you will make a vehicle that "gets 40 mpg", and everyone will buy it....

say that "a car company will go away"...and nobody will buy it....

The General American car buying public is stupid, plain and simple. They will flock to whatever is put out there as "the next best thing".

I would venture to say that 4 out of 5 people didn't know that the original Saturns were built in Tennessee, and that 4 out of 5 people now think that the Astra is built in the States.

People have become sheep...they will believe whatever you tell them, and the prospect of people doing any kind of research anymore on anything is really sad.

We are all led to believe...

but no one wants to take on their own responsibility to understand the difference.

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Old 12-10-2008, 02:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

look... the word is getting out http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/sat...0%99t-leave-us

interesting stuff!

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Old 12-10-2008, 03:39 PM   #11
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Dizzy Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

We have had cars from the Detroit 3 and a number of foreign cars. We currently have a couple of Subarus and a Saturn. After 3 Subarus, we will replace those with yet another Subaru. The Saturn is 10 years old and was to be replaced with another Saturn next year because it has been a very good car. Both the Saturn and Subaru have been reliable and well designed, more so than the VWs, Chevy's, Dodge's and Ford's we've had. Whether GM goes bankrupt or drops Saturn, we would still buy another Saturn. We do not use dealers because of too many bad experiences with them all, so we rely on a local mechanic. The only thing that might prevent us from buying another Saturn is the comment elsewhere that the current crop of Saturns were redesigned to match other GM cars. If so, why bother and I hope that is not true. My Subaru was built in Indiana with a 90% American. I believe my original Saturn was too. I don't think the other GMs are, so I don't have any particular loyalty to Detroit as they don't have much for me either. If I can't get a Saturn, I'll go Subaru for all my cars and at least know I will drive for years unconcerned about the issues other car owners whine about.

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Old 12-10-2008, 04:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

In the case of the Astra, built in Belgium, its an Opel/Vauxhal/Holden being sold as a saturn.

I bought a new Astra XR3-door in March 08. Love the car. Quality fit and finnish. Unfortunately it's been a sales Flop. I look forward to keeping it a long long time. Now if GM dumps Saturn, I suppose the parts will dry up. Unless of course I choose to have them imported from Opel, Vauxhal, Holden.
Thanks GM, I'll be sure to come back for another screwing
Oh yea, and since my wife bought a new Sky this year, we get the double shaft.

And I do believe the American public are like sheep, they are presented with a nice high quality premium small car, and they don't buy it, they go for the Mazda 3, like the three other sheep on their block. (No dissrespect to the Mazda 3 intended)

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Old 12-10-2008, 05:31 PM   #13
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperlexis View Post
This is the kind of short-sighted attitude that I just can't stand. It's frightening, however and GM needs to confront it. People willing to turn to Hondas ad other foreign brands because they feel personally hurt over changes in Saturn's lineup.

I'm sorry, but I do not own a Saturn. I actually own a Hyundai. It's been an OK car for the most part, with a few major warranty repairs (like a whole new engine replacement). But, like a Honda or a Toyota, it's not really a car. It's an appliance -- a point a-to-b, vanilla appliance with wheels. My old Audi was a real car, exciting, solid and an absolute joy to drive and it even had a name (my mechanic knew it well....). But the Hyundai? Feh. Still unnamed although 'Old POS' sometimes comes to mind....

It's a shame GM/Saturn has let Saturn go to hell like this, but whatever is done with the brand, the important thing is that GM itself MUST survive to fight another day, to someday create new Saturns or something similar. People switching loyalties to Japanese appliance-cars is definitely part of the underlying problem.

I don't know what's going to happen to Saturn or GM or the rest -- but one thing I do know. My next car will be American. Assuming there are any American automakers left!

And today the f-ing Republicans in the Senate just announced they are going to try to block aid to the automakers..... Unreal what kind of counrtry are we living in!
1. Learn some internet etiquette and don't attack people by calling them names, etc.
For the record, neither I, nor my family are short-sighted. We think long-term, that is why this downturn in the economy going to affect up permanently. We all walked away from GM because THEY lost sight of what Saturn stood for. I am IN NO WAY personally hurt by GM's actions. My epidermis is pretty thick. I turned to Honda because only Honda or Toyota filled my needs after GM started to rebadge GM cars versus producing true Saturn cars.

2. Why are you here attacking posters when you have never even owned a Saturn. Go troll somewhere else.

3. Our Hondas are not "appliances", they are true cars. Maybe they are not the old cars of yore .... ie 70s muscle cars, but they are reliable and get me where I need to go.....just like the Saturns did.

4. Your mentality of "we must keep the BIG 3 alive at all costs" could be considered the problem too. Most American taxpayers do not want to keep those dinosaurs alive with their worthless unions dragging them down. Let the go Chapter 11 and reorganize without the unions. The Japanese plants work just fine without unions and the workers there are just fine. I have family that work and worked in the GM plants.....it is pitiful what they get overpaid to do.

Again...take your trolling somewhere else.

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Old 12-10-2008, 06:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

As a capitalist, I say, the let market cull the ranks of loosing propositions.

But as a SATURN OWNER since '91, I want to see saturn live. But the dream died long ago. Saturn the import fighter?!? now half the car line is imports.

As a republican, I am ashamed of how the politics of socialism are creeping in. Where's your back bone congress?

As an engineer, I see that saturn are still are great products. I will always want another, so long as they are sufficiently different from chevy.

As an american citizen, I ask how well can congress( or any one else appointed) run GM if they can even balance thier own buget. BTW when was the last time that happened? Stop giving my money away and acting like fools!

I may buy another Saturn someday. But my current one is only 2.5 yrs old. I can take that depreciation hit again. But can I stand to buy my used '06 VUE with a Honda engine? I guess that I will. But I am not going to like it.

...
A Saturn owner since 10/91.
'92 SC, '91 SL2, 95 SW1, '06 ION3
other car- '02 Expedition 5.4L

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

Their probably not even going to get a bailout based on the bank bailout debacle. At least thats the word on the hill.

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:43 PM   #16
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

Saturn will be treated like a red headed step child by the market. I don't think Saturn will be alone though. GM's sales will continue to slide even after they get their free Obama dollars. The market couldn't care less about them, especially after this fiasco. A victim of the market downturn my ***** . A poorly run company with half hearted products for decades. It's a shame GM had anything to do with Saturn. It really could be much more than it is.

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

For a second there, I coulda swore you were a UAW member!

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Edwards View Post
4. Your mentality of "we must keep the BIG 3 alive at all costs" could be considered the problem too. Most American taxpayers do not want to keep those dinosaurs alive with their worthless unions dragging them down. Let the go Chapter 11 and reorganize without the unions. The Japanese plants work just fine without unions and the workers there are just fine. I have family that work and worked in the GM plants.....it is pitiful what they get overpaid to do.
What's better $15 billion now or hundereds of billions later when millions are out of work? Where do you get that unions are dragging them down? They have already agreed to get rid of the jobs bank, whic is a great idea. The retirees health care cost will be paid for by a VEBA fund. They have also reduced their starting wages to $14 an hour. While the honda plant in Indiana starts their workers at $18 an hour. What mopre do you think they are supposed to do? Since you seem to think they are overpaid, what do you think that a typical UAW worker makes? I'm just curious to see what kind of misinformed inforomation people seem to think they know.

Where do you people get that filing for bankruptcy is going to solve the problem? It isn't! People are not going to buy from a bankrupt company and that will just keep putting them in a worse position. Will all of this talk you're starting to sound like a follower of that hick shelby from good ole boy alabama.

Last edited by s-seriesguy; 12-10-2008 at 08:36 PM..

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

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What's better $15 billion now or hundereds of billions later when millions are out of work? Where do you get that unions are dragging them down? They have already agreed to get rid of the jobs bank, whic is a great idea. The retirees health care cost will be paid for by a VEBA fund. They have also reduced their starting wages to $14 an hour. While the honda plant in Indiana starts their workers at $18 an hour. What mopre do you think they are supposed to do? Since you seem to think they are overpaid, what do you think that a typical UAW worker makes? I'm just curious to see what kind of misinformed inforomation people seem to think they know.

Where do you people get that filing for bankruptcy is going to solve the problem? It isn't! People are not going to buy from a bankrupt company and that will just keep putting them in a worse position. Will all of this talk you're starting to sound like a follower of that hick shelby from good ole boy alabama.
Filing for bankruptcy protection will help keep the creditors at bay. GM lost money the last six quarters. If their liabilities keep outweighing their assets, legacy costs included, they may have no other choices but to consider bankruptcy or become extinct. Sad to say but true, and one does not need to be a follower of a Southern politician with a Honda assembly plant in his district to realize this.

...
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Will Customers Steer Clear of Saturn Now that GM Has Put the Fate of the Nameplat

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Originally Posted by s-seriesguy View Post
What's better $15 billion now or hundereds of billions later when millions are out of work? Where do you get that unions are dragging them down? They have already agreed to get rid of the jobs bank, whic is a great idea. The retirees health care cost will be paid for by a VEBA fund. They have also reduced their starting wages to $14 an hour. While the honda plant in Indiana starts their workers at $18 an hour. What mopre do you think they are supposed to do? Since you seem to think they are overpaid, what do you think that a typical UAW worker makes? I'm just curious to see what kind of misinformed inforomation people seem to think they know.

Where do you people get that filing for bankruptcy is going to solve the problem? It isn't! People are not going to buy from a bankrupt company and that will just keep putting them in a worse position. Will all of this talk you're starting to sound like a follower of that hick shelby from good ole boy alabama.
First off, there is no way in hell that 15 billion dollars is going to fix the problem. Almost all of the economists have already stated that it would require an injection of between 75 and 125 billion dollars to show any improvement in the future....and that is assuming that these companies are REALLY going to turn around and start from scratch. In a year they will be back asking for more money from the taxpayers. The problem isn't the starting pay, but the overall average pay per worker. The big three average, with benefits and retirement, about 73 dollars a hour, while the non-unionized Japanese companies average a little under 50 dollars an hour. My wife's uncle makes over 55 dollars an hour base pay without benefits!!! My wife is a clinical pharmacist and instructor with 7 years of school and 2 years of residency and only makes about 39 dollars an hour base pay. What is wrong with this picture???!!!???

What else are they supposed to do? GET RID OF THE UNIONS!!! My aforementioned uncle OFTEN would go to work and freakin sleep...making 55 dollars an hour!!! Unions were of use when the workers needed protection, now we need protection from the unions.

How will bankruptcy help? By allowing the compaines to clear debt, void contracts with the UAW, reduce the size of the compaines, reorganize the way the compaines run, etc. These companies should not be given special treatment because they are the Big Three, their leaders ran them into the ground and now they pay the price. It is true that there are many companies that have relied upon the Big Three in the past and they may suffer the consequences of Detroit's actions. That is unfortunate, but it was only a matter of time before these companies imploded from poor management and bad decision-making. If it means reducing these companies to a much smaller state than they are now so that they can recover and finally make cars that can compete with the foreign models then so be it. I for one have no desire to give the Big Three my tax dollars just to keep them afloat for now, only to have them self-destruct in a couple of more years. We need to "Pay the Piper" now and get it over with.

I have never been to Alabama.

Also, what do you propose????

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Torque Steer, Bump Steer, Front End Rattle Matt42 Vue General 5 08-29-2005 12:48 PM


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