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Old 12-04-2008, 01:02 AM   #1
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Default GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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Peter Valdes-Dapena, senior writer for CNNMoney.com, says that "in its new marketing structure General Motors has identified four 'core' brands. Two other brands might be dropped altogether and another has been relegated, officially, to 'niche' status."

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Old 12-04-2008, 02:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

What they should do is realize that all their brands are niche and follow Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc., and pick TWO brands they want to save.

Something like Chevy for the average guy who needs econoboxes, midsize, and other vehicles and then Cadillac for the high end luxury segment.

It works for the Japanese because there is far less confusion and even a Honda is a nice car, just without all the bells and whistles of an Acura. Same thing for Toyota-Lexus and Nissan-Infinity.

GM is so idiotic and suffering so bad that I'd put a .45 hollow point into it's head to end the misery if it was an animal instead of a crap company.

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Old 12-04-2008, 07:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

Problem is, Chevy has nothing that comes close to a top end Honda or a low end Accura. As nice as the high end Malibu is, it doesnt come close to luxury features a high end Accourd has. And vise versa there is NOTHING Caddi makes that comes close to how cheap entry level Accuras are. Buick though does have some stuff, but I would rather see GM improve Saturn a little bit more since they are SO CLOSE to having a interior that matches the sharpness of the exterior than try to convince 4 generations of people that Buicks are not stuffy old people cars with a average age of 90.

The problem with your idea is that GM has splintered their lines so much that they just dont HAVE anything atm capable of being split like a two brand company. 3-4 though is not bad either. Entry, mid-lux, high end, and commercial truck makes sense. Problem is with GMs plan there is still WAY too much overlap.

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Old 12-04-2008, 08:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

Saturn should be the third brand if GM kept more than two. It could be the Scion version of GM. Controlling inventory is what GM definately needs to learn

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Old 12-04-2008, 09:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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Saturn should be the third brand if GM kept more than two. It could be the Scion version of GM. Controlling inventory is what GM definately needs to learn
Well thats basically the plan with Pontiac, which I dont blame them on. But its a loss less rational of "they have good cars" and a lot more "we cant let our original brands die, lets sacrifice the new guy!"

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Old 12-04-2008, 01:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

No doubt the way GM execs see it is that they gave Saturn dealers an entire line of fresh, competitive products, and they didn't achieve sales goals with any of them.

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Old 12-04-2008, 01:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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As nice as the high end Malibu is, it doesnt come close to luxury features a high end Accourd has.
It doesn't? name something that's missing

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Old 12-04-2008, 01:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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No doubt the way GM execs see it is that they gave Saturn dealers an entire line of fresh, competitive products, and they didn't achieve sales goals with any of them.
Plus they are at dealers that only sell one brand of car, not cost effective

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Old 12-04-2008, 02:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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It doesn't? name something that's missing
Even the new Malibu like the Aura and EVERY Chevy car pretty much has no TRUE nav system. Onstar is nice and all, but in 4 years of the added nav system you would have paid for the addition of one in the Accord. Thankfully the bluetooth complaint is negated but that was another sore subject as Onstar is again not a valid replacement for that unless your a Verizon customer like I am currently.

There is no coupe Malibu, though I guess technically you can overlook that with the Camaro coming out but before you couldnt It looks like GM might position the G6 as the alterna-malibu with the changes to Pontiac it plans, but again that means squat to the masses who dont know that when you can just step into a Honda dealer and see that.

The interior is still not of the quality of Honda. You can get REAL wood interiors on upper level Accords that you just cant get on a GM vehicle unless you buy a Caddi or Buick or have a dealer who does custom work (mine will add one for 500 dollars which is about the cost of the one Honda factory fits). The only sore spot I found in my Aura was again the interior, the stupid fit of the line between the doors and dash is just not acceptable for a 25,000+ car, and saving 200-300 bucks on plastic adds to that.

To my knowledge the new Malibu also does not have a rear-view camera or sensors.

And finally its only upon 2008, that GM caught up with the rest of the car producing world to add a damn iPod adapter, except half the dealers dont even KNOW IT. Its a checkoff option on the configuration sheet you get from Honda.

The only thing GM has over Honda is its cheaper and "just" as nice. But "just" doesn't cut it for a lot of buyers, not when your buying something thats 1/4 to 1/2 a persons yearly salary or more. Granted some people overlook this stuff. As I mentioned elsewhere my coworker loves my car and he's a 3 series owner. But I as a buyer saw these things. It was only though the deal I got in Sept from my dealer, and the offer to overlook the 2k left on my lease that I bought the car.

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Old 12-04-2008, 02:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out



It's a shame. However, I am not entirely surprised. There are many changes within GM and Saturn that could have been changed to insure success.

Saturns sales have been declining like everything else in this country, and it's a shame.

I will be sad to see Saturn go.

I don't really have much more to say. No excuses here. In my opinion, if you look at the facts, and the way the brand "rotted" from say 1995-2007ish, I say the writing was on the wall for Saturn years ago.

It really is a shame. I think a few changes could have saved GM, and more importantly Saturn.

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Old 12-04-2008, 05:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

I would like to see the Vue replace the Chevy Equinox. At least the Vue has all of the GM powerplants unlike the chinese built 3.4 equinox. And why would GM waste money again using two powerplant 3.4 and 3.6 vs. cooperate wide 4 banger. more waste

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Old 12-04-2008, 05:37 PM   #12
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Sad Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

So sad .
If GM gets rid of Saturn, I'm buying a Mini Cooper as my next car. There are simply no other GM cars that I would consider buying.

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Old 12-04-2008, 06:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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No doubt the way GM execs see it is that they gave Saturn dealers an entire line of fresh, competitive products, and they didn't achieve sales goals with any of them.
They did indeed give Saturn a line of nice new products. Unfortunately these products often had prices higher than many existing economy oriented Saturn owners were willing to pay. Capturing a new customer base is never an easy thing especially with a relatively small marketing and advertising budget. Unfortunately just as the Aura and new VUE seemed to start to gain a following, an economic crisis like none other seen for decades in the US hit the nation. Even if Saturn/GM had made the right product decisions at the time the decisions were made, they were snake bitten with the timing when it came to selling the vehicles.

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Old 12-04-2008, 06:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

Yep, I'm sad to see them go too, if that happens! I'm a seller and an owner. I don't see myself selling another brand!

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Old 12-04-2008, 07:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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The interior is still not of the quality of Honda. You can get REAL wood interiors on upper level Accords that you just cant get on a GM vehicle unless you buy a Caddi or Buick or have a dealer who does custom work (mine will add one for 500 dollars which is about the cost of the one Honda factory fits). The only sore spot I found in my Aura was again the interior, the stupid fit of the line between the doors and dash is just not acceptable for a 25,000+ car, and saving 200-300 bucks on plastic adds to that.

I'm sorry but there is no real wood in the Honda or any Honda fro that matter. unless you pay 70 k or more on a Benz or a Jag you get plastic. the Honda interior is just as cheap as anything by GM its all plastic. even the Acuras are all plastic, same fro Lexus and Infinity even BMW gives you plastic. in fact real wood is disappearing from cars fast as it is becoming ever more impossible to form the wood to the contours of modern interiors.

the Cheap interiors crap comes from magazine edditors looking for stuff to complain about and frankly its starting to get very old. the interiors of the imports are no better.

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Old 12-04-2008, 07:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

[QUOTE=Falconfire;1359377] And vise versa there is NOTHING Caddi makes that comes close to how cheap entry level Accuras are./QUOTE]

Have you driven a CTS? Ihave owned a new Acura CL and I now own a CTS, and I don't see anything better in quality in the Acura over the CTS. My partner has a new TL and it dosen't do anything my CTS won't do and my wood and leather is as just as good. If anything I like the ride and handling of the CTS better. GM should drop Pontiac and keep Saturn as its innovator and green division---with a full line of hybrids and alternative fuel cars. Chevy should make "family cars" and SUV's while GMC should make Larger trucks. Buick could be folded into Cadillac as something like the Lasalle companion division of Cadillac in the 1920's; older people who wanted a conservative upper middle class ride but didn't want to pay the Cadillac price could pick from the 1 or 2 "lasalle"models in the Cadillac showroom. Other than the G8, I don't see anything in the Pontiac lineup that GM hasn't already got in the other divisions, and that could be made into a "Lasalle"

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Old 12-04-2008, 07:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

I'm sad to see Saturn go and Pontiac reduced to niche status, but since crossing over to the Dark Side (read Japanese brands) when replacing my wrecked SL2, I can't say 'if Saturn gets canned, I'm going over to Brand X'.

If GM makes it through this tough climate, I'd like to see one brand emerge from the BPG mix. Make it a mid-level bridge between Chevrolet and Cadillac. I don't care if they call it Buick, Pontiac, LaSalle or Opel, just get it done. GM should also make GMC all about commercial and light trucks. Chevy gets paired with Cadillac. GMC is aligned with the mid-level brand. The Sloan model should have been revised to reflect changing times eons ago.


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Old 12-04-2008, 10:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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the Cheap interiors crap comes from magazine edditors looking for stuff to complain about and frankly its starting to get very old. the interiors of the imports are no better.
My parents have a 2008 Accord and I actually agree, it's nothing special. I'd say it's good enough, but I doubt it's any higher grade than what's in a new Aura or Malibu. (The G6 could use an update, though, at least on the center console!) I think my Legacy has a very nice interior for its class, but I don't necessarily think the materials are higher quality. I just like the color scheme and the layout better than, say, the Accord's.

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Old 12-05-2008, 01:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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So sad .
If GM gets rid of Saturn, I'm buying a Mini Cooper as my next car. There are simply no other GM cars that I would consider buying.
No GM cars? that's a lot of cars.
A Mini Cooper is quite different than what you have now.
Sounds like you want a Mini regardless of Saturn's fate.

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Old 12-05-2008, 10:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: GM Brand Makeover Leaves Saturn Out

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Problem is, Chevy has nothing that comes close to a top end Honda or a low end Accura. As nice as the high end Malibu is, it doesnt come close to luxury features a high end Accourd has. And vise versa there is NOTHING Caddi makes that comes close to how cheap entry level Accuras are. Buick though does have some stuff, but I would rather see GM improve Saturn a little bit more since they are SO CLOSE to having a interior that matches the sharpness of the exterior than try to convince 4 generations of people that Buicks are not stuffy old people cars with a average age of 90.

The problem with your idea is that GM has splintered their lines so much that they just dont HAVE anything atm capable of being split like a two brand company. 3-4 though is not bad either. Entry, mid-lux, high end, and commercial truck makes sense. Problem is with GMs plan there is still WAY too much overlap.

The point is: If GM did not waste it's time screwing around making 4 versions of every product to satisfy dealers for so many different divisions and the marketing and costs that each version of the same damned old thing require, they would have enough cash and talent and market focus to build a knock out car or truck in each segment.With just two divisions.

Consider how much damage those fool Mini Vans did to each of GM's divisions. For the money they spent to build 4 versions of junk, they could have spent the money on a class leading one for Chevrolet. It was Cimarron Part II. 4 versions of the corporate cross over, 4 or more versions of the corporate mid size SUV including one for Saab. [and Isuzu or Suzuki or something or other], An Avalanche for Cadillac. The answers to questions no one asked GM just keep on coming. 5000 lb crossovers, sports cars that lose $10,000 on each unit sold, importing a small car for Saturn that costs more, gets worse mileage and loses money on every unit than the outgoing "inferior" ION. Stop the frigging insanity with all the brands.

GM's market share cannot sustain all 4 or 5 or 8 or however many brands and produce class leading, desirable products for each brand. And keep them current. And continually improving. They never bothered with Saturn after the initial launch, nor the update of the Cavalier in 95, nor the Cobalt, nor the 97 Malibu, the minivans or small pick ups. Let them all rot while they chased short term profits with SUVs and full size pick up trucks in a maddening array of versions and styles and options.

And when you see the 2020 Cruze, you'll be seeing the 2010 if GM lasts that long.

Sorry for the cynicism but I have watched this show for far too long to think that GM can do anything with Saab, Hummer, Saturn, Buick or Pontiac other than offer Opel clones for all or an SUV or crossover. Been there, did that, doesn't work, GM.

Perhaps they missed the boat by not offering Buick and Saturn and Cadillac and Hummer a version of the Aveo. A waste of time and money which GM does not have of course. But no doubt some genius at GM would have thought that was a great idea,leveraging our "global portolio' to the max.

Doesn't that ramble kind of reflect the sort of chaos and brand destruction GM has already done to itself ? That's why they only "need" two brands.

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