ION automatic - 31 mpg highway?

[VTHokie00SL2]

I was just looking at the 2003 Ion web site, just cuz I'm bored. I noticed that the mileage estimates are even worse than I thought! 23/31 for the Ion automatic? That's pathetic! Heck, there are midsize cars with 200 hp V-6 engines that'll get close to that mileage on the highway!

A small car with midsize car fuel mileage...wonderful.

And if any of you have seen that VUE ad on television where they specifically mention the 4 wheel independent suspension, doesn't that pretty much imply that even Saturn admits it's superior to a torsion beam setup?

I'll admit that the styling and the interior is subjective, so while I hate the bumper car steering wheel, the Toyota Echo instruments, and and the "cute and friendly" theme in the styling, I'll admit that it's an issue of preference. However, I don't see any way to view the pathetic (for a small car) fuel economy, the cheap beam axle suspension, or the cheap drum brakes as anything but downgrades over the S Series. It just annoys me that GM will cut corners and charge the same amount, and so many people are willing to accept it because they're so enamored with Saturn that they can't be objective. If nobody accepted mediocrity, we'd end up with better products!

And I know other manufacturers do it as well. Drum brakes are found on other cars, and Honda and Toyota have both downgraded suspensions on their small cars. But it would be nice if Saturn showed some leadership for a change. Instead, they seem to be trying to develop their own line of Toyota clones. So far, they've got the L Series looking like the Toyota Avalon (of course without the Avalon's reliability and refinement) and the Ion filling in for the Echo.

[100KSW2]

Matt

I guess we will see shortly if people DO accept it or not.

I'm hoping that along with the dealer available supercharger, that maybe there will be a rear brake upgrade (i.e. to discs).

As for the suspension, that is a lot harder to fix, I'd guess. :-(


Jim

[VTHokie00SL2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the L200 actually get better fuel mileage than the Ion? Hell, the L300 isn't too far behind the Ion!

I have to admit, I'm also not thrilled with the published fuel economy of what will likely be my next car, the Mazda 6. For the 219 hp V-6, they're saying 19 mpg city, 27 mpg highway (for the automatic). Still, if that V-6 delivers in the performance department, it's not bad. But I think 30 mpg highway should be the goal for today's mainstream V-6 engines.

Looking at the mileage estimates of various cars, the Ion appears to be a small car with midsize car mileage. Granted, it's roomier than the S Series, but it's still not a midsize.

[Terrandus]

Those numbers are for a standard 5-speed Auto.. in early 2003 the CVT transmission will be avalible offering better gas milage... and according to some.. better gas milage than the manual, that i have a hard time believing.

[03VUEAWDVTI]

I don't have a hard time believing it. According to the EPA the 5 speed manual and the VTi are tied for fuel economy for the VUE. As for real world, my car runs about 600 rpm lower than my fathers 5 speed manual. I was initially turned off of the VUE due to the buzzy nature of the 5 speed. The VTi sold me. So far, I've been able to easily beat the highway fuel economy figure several times on my mixed highway/city commute. The VTi doesn't suffer from the same power robbing problems that plague the conventional geared automatic.

[Harry]

Some other manufacturers have called torsion beam suspensions "semi-independent" for years and with marketing people it is easy to lose things like "semi-". It isn't a solid axle between the two so they aren't completely dependent so it isn't a total lie.

As for "small car with mid sized mileage" it isn't really a small car. It is only 5" shorter and a couple hundred pounds lighter than the L200. Such a small difference means you would expect it to be only slightly better than the L200. You're right that some V6 cars (especially from GM) get good mileage. The cars are geared for cruising and they get good mileage in the tests but I think in actual use may not fare quite as well.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Originally posted by Harry
It isn't a solid axle between the two so they aren't completely dependent so it isn't a total lie.

Great...

As for "small car with mid sized mileage" it isn't really a small car. It is only 5" shorter and a couple hundred pounds lighter than the L200.

Then they made this car way too big to be the S Series replacement. And still, the mileage is poor even for its size.

[VTHokie00SL2]

You know, the Mazda 6 4 cylinder gets about the same mileage as the Ion! The 4 cyl Honda Accord gets better mileage! Hell, the new Accord V-6 is rated for 30 mpg highway! The Toyota Camry also gets better mileage than the Ion. When you look at it that way, the Ion's mileage ****s big time!

Looking at some other small cars, it looks like the Mazda Protege's mileage is pretty poor, though. I'm surprised that isn't better.

[Agent017]

In a review I saw on CVT/VTi for either the VUE or Audi A4, it said the manufacturer stated improvement in mpg would be 10% over the conventional automatic. The review said that from their brief experience, it was more like 25% improvement in mpg.

Here's the math:

Stated mpg for the automatic on the Sedan at 2003 Ion site
City/Highway - 23/31

10% improvement assuming CVT instead of conventional automatic
25.3/34.1

25% improvement assuming CVT instead of conventional automatic
28.75/38.75

Where will it fall during real world driving and ownership? We will have to wait see and the driver and their style of driving is a large component of this equation as well. As one of the VUE CVT owners said, you ride/drive(?) the transmission and not the engine, something I would have to get used to.

I currently get on the highway about 28 mixed and 33 highway when I'm good and I have a 99 SL2 which is, as we all know, lighter and has a smaller engine and it's stated City/Highway is 28/36.

I would like to get the QuadCoupe with the CVT and if I could get it with the rumored turbo at 210 hp and match my current mpg, it'd be as smug as a bug in a rug. Otherwise, I'd like to get the stock CVT and have the dealer add a few things on, I ain't mechanically inclined in the least.

Tawk amoungst yourselves, it's 555-TALK, I'm not Linda Richman and this isn't Coffe Tawk. I'll give you a subject, is my math right and what will the EPA rate the City/Highway mpg at. Yes, it's 555-TALK and this isn't Coffe Tawk.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Personally, I wouldn't want the new and unproven CVT, so I don't think you should have to get that in order to get decent mileage. And comparing the Ion with CVT to other cars with conventional transmissions isn't really a fair comparison. When you compare the Ion 5 speed auto to other cars out there, the mileage just isn't very good.

[Dr. Bob]

I think that 23/31 w/ automatic matches the Focus.

I've always wondered why the Focus automatic got such poor mileage - maybe my expectations are too high...

As the the ION, I don't think I'd want an automatic anyway if I was going to buy one - I'd go for a manual - unless the VTI was pretty close in mileage to the manual. But then, I'm pretty frugal.

[Terrandus]

The CVT technology isn't brand new and its only semi new to Saturn. They have used a CVT transmission in the VUE and the people here in this area have had rather good things to say about the CVT in the VUE's. I haven't heard of any major problems surrounding the CVT, so in my opinon I would feel safe with a Saturn car with a CVT in it.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob
I think that 23/31 w/ automatic matches the Focus.

I've always wondered why the Focus automatic got such poor mileage - maybe my expectations are too high...

Okay, maybe I'm missing something here, but can someone explain why these small 4 cylinder cars are topping out in the low 30's, while Honda's new 240 hp Accord V-6 is rated at 30 mpg highway?!

[03VUEAWDVTI]

From what I've gleaned from the VTi owners here, I'm the only one with a replacement transmission. HOWEVER, the dealer replaced a trans that did NOT need replacement. If they would have listened to what I was telling them about my complaint, they would have worked on the suspension like I wanted them to do in the first place.

[Terrandus]

As far as gas milage of Honda's V6 and I4 being comparable, my theory would be that the I4's are higher reving engines as compared to the v6's.. a possible reason for the gas milage being simialr.

At 80mph a v6 will run roughly around 2000rpm's (my mom's Chrysler Van) and my Saturn (1996 sl1) runs roughly at 3000rpm's at 80mph...

[VTHokie00SL2]

Very true, I thought about that myself. But, the Ion auto is a 5 speed, so I would expect it to have a lower RPM at highway speeds than, say, my 4 speed automatic SL2 (which hits 3000 RPM at about 72 mph).

And besides, the Accord V-6 is pretty close to these 4 cylinders with its city mileage estimate as well!

[Terrandus]

One more thing, the Honda V6 has Exhaust recycling system while the the Ecotec 2.2 I4 DOES NOT. The 2.2 I4 meets emissoin standars without recycling the exhaust gases.

Originally posted by VTHOKIE97SL2
. If nobody accepted mediocrity, we'd end up with better products!

. So far, they've got the L Series looking like the Toyota Avalon (of course without the Avalon's reliability and refinement) and the Ion filling in for the Echo.

Look at this thing...its UUUUUUGGGGGGGGLLLLLLLLYYYY! Used to be a nice looking car.

As far as gas milage of Honda's V6 and I4 being comparable, my theory would be that the I4's are higher reving engines as compared to the v6's.. a possible reason for the gas milage being simialr.

Using that logic, a V8 should be able to turn the same kinda mileage...doesn't work that way. You only need something like 8HP to maintain 60mph, so the engine shouldn't have to work that hard. Don't forget that a V6 has two extra jugs to feed...its mileage should not be comparable to a four, unless the four is overtaxed or undergeared. With only 140HP, it should get better mileage. Sounds like some taller gearing would help. Ion must be a real brick, aerodynamically speaking.

Then they made this car way too big to be the S Series replacement. And still, the mileage is poor even for its size.

Too fat, yes...however, I don't expect the interior dimensions to increase much, given the piddly 0.8" increase in wheel base. All the length increase went into the ugly long nose, and the enormous trunk. The car got wider, too, so expect the "volume" numbers to make the interior sound cavernous. They should have pushed the wheels to the corners, would have done wonders for the ride as well as interior room...and left the Coupe on a short wheelbase(shorter cars handle better)

[XtremeGrandAm]

Im not surprised the ION gets terrible gas mileage because my grand am does too..although my grand am is heavier and bigger. They estimate it at 24/32 automatic.

[VTHokie00SL2]

Originally posted by Plastic Gravity
Look at this thing...its UUUUUUGGGGGGGGLLLLLLLLYYYY! Used to be a nice looking car.

Looks a bit like a Mercury Grand Marquis in that photo.