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Old 09-13-2008, 07:57 PM   #1
cverstij
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Default Changing the spark plugs

Just to let anyone know who plans on doing this, it's another one of GM's bright ideas about making the consumer come in for service. The front three are easy as pie. The back three plugs are a pain the arse!!! Especially the one to the far right (when standing in front of the car). I thought I was going to have to take the entire freaking engine block out to get to it. I was steaming mad!!!

However, I got to all of them (and it took some time, sweat, bad words, and scraped hands) and switched them out! Had to try many different angles and positions of the ratchet, plus moving hoses and brackets back and forth, but I got it. Take it hard GM...

I put in some Denso Iridium spark plugs. They claim to increase acceleration, horsepower, and fuel consumption efficiency. I will keep you posted on how they perform.

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Old 09-14-2008, 09:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by cverstij View Post
Just to let anyone know who plans on doing this, it's another one of GM's bright ideas about making the consumer come in for service. The front three are easy as pie. The back three plugs are a pain the arse!!! Especially the one to the far right (when standing in front of the car). I thought I was going to have to take the entire freaking engine block out to get to it. I was steaming mad!!!

However, I got to all of them (and it took some time, sweat, bad words, and scraped hands) and switched them out! Had to try many different angles and positions of the ratchet, plus moving hoses and brackets back and forth, but I got it. Take it hard GM...

I put in some Denso Iridium spark plugs. They claim to increase acceleration, horsepower, and fuel consumption efficiency. I will keep you posted on how they perform.
is this car the first FWD V6 you've had? They are all like that. On some of them, you even have to take off the rear intake manifold to get to the plugs.
Consider yourself lucky you did not have to do that. As far as better acc, MPG etc., I hope you did not change the plugs for that.

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Old 09-14-2008, 10:11 AM   #3
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

I thought the plugs were good for 100,000 miles, no?

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Old 09-14-2008, 11:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

I would not even consider replacing the plugs until 1) the car is off warranty and 2) the car has more than 60-75K miles on it. Otherwise, you are wasting your money unless you enjoy the pain of replacing the plugs. The factory plugs are actually quite good, if not the best plug out there for the Aura. There is not an aftermarket plug made that will give you 1) improved mpg or 2) better performance vs the factory plug. Did you install the "high performance" plug wires and the air intake "Vortex" insert too? They also are a waste of money, and can actually cause decreased performance and lower mpg. Yes, the factory plugs are designed by GM to last for approx 100K miles.

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Old 09-14-2008, 06:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Do you not just undo the top engine mount and rotate the engine forward with a block of wood like you do with the older 3.4L and 3.5L V6's?

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Old 09-14-2008, 06:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by nababbo View Post
is this car the first FWD V6 you've had?

As a matter of fact, yes it is.

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Old 09-14-2008, 06:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWCarcrazy View Post
The factory plugs are actually quite good, if not the best plug out there for the Aura. There is not an aftermarket plug made that will give you 1) improved mpg or 2) better performance vs the factory plug. Did you install the "high performance" plug wires and the air intake "Vortex" insert too? They also are a waste of money, and can actually cause decreased performance and lower mpg.

Not really interested in an opinion of someone who is crazy about ANYTHING German.

As far as the factory plugs being the best plugs out there for the Aura....why have there been so many posts regarding the rough idle? My guess would be that cheap plugs are put in at the factory.

And, no, I didn't put the "high performance" plug wires and the air intake "Vortex" insert too. They only make those for kraut-cars.

Here is a link to the Denso site:

http://www.densoiridium.com/spconstruction.htm


By the way, there are Denso parts that attach to the spark plugs out of the factory on the Aura....just thought I would use the same brand spark plug with these other parts. Factory uses AC Delco, which in my opinion, are krap.

Last edited by cverstij; 09-14-2008 at 06:50 PM..

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Old 09-14-2008, 06:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Please let us know if you record any difference with the new plugs.

I just put new plugs in my Intrigue (well, at 79k miles). I noticed an 8 mpg jump on my daily commute. I know thay're supposed to be 100k plugs, but my gas savings have already paid for the tuneup.

...
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Old 09-14-2008, 06:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacepope View Post
Please let us know if you record any difference with the new plugs.

I just put new plugs in my Intrigue (well, at 79k miles). I noticed an 8 mpg jump on my daily commute. I know thay're supposed to be 100k plugs, but my gas savings have already paid for the tuneup.
But Spacepope, in the words of VW: There is not an aftermarket plug made that will give you 1) improved mpg or 2) better performance vs the factory plug. Did you install the "high performance" plug wires and the air intake "Vortex" insert too?

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Old 09-14-2008, 07:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Honda uses OEM Iridium plugs in the 3.5L engine in my VUE, and I used them in my SC. They did give my SC a smoother idle.

If I was replacing a plug that I plan on lasting an extended period of time in a car, I would go out of my way to use them. Especially on a car where the plugs are difficult to reach.

Note the unique electrode design, and u-channel to increase the surface area of the spark gap. It's a very nice spark plug that gives superior performance over a standard spark plug over a very long time.




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Old 09-14-2008, 07:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Sorry guys, I am with VW on this one. I don't think you are going to find a plug that gives you better performance or economy than the factory ones. With maufacturers trying to squeeze every MPG out of their engines, they are going to certainly put a lot of thought into what plugs they use in their engines.

That said, I don't think I would go more than around 60k on a set of plugs. They are cheap enough, and fairly easy to replace...(especially on the 2.4)

But when I do end up replacing them at 60k, I will use the factory plugs. Probably change the coolant, fuel filter, PCV valve and tranny fluid at that point too. I don't think the 2.4 has plug wires so I don't have to worry about that!

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Old 09-14-2008, 09:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dishdude View Post
Probably change the coolant, fuel filter, PCV valve and tranny fluid at that point too. I don't think the 2.4 has plug wires so I don't have to worry about that!
I can find no reference in the owner’s manual to a fuel filter? I have heard it is in the tank and "not serviceable" Not sure on this...

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Old 09-14-2008, 09:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Just a point of interest; if your car idles roughly or you are experiencing poor mileage when it had been good at one time, changing the plugs can help. If it does, chances are good that a plug or two were not working or just barely working.
My caddy had hesitation, missing, rough idle and I figured the plugs and/or plug wires were the problem.
If you think changing the plugs on a transverse V6 is tough, come try it on my caddy's transverse V8
I couldn't do it, my hands and arms are just to big. I took it to a shop that has an alien in back (you know I mean the little gray men with the really long skinny arms) that specializes in changing plugs on a Cadillac or other GM FWD V8 cars.
Broken plug and a plug wire that was burnt through was the cause. MPG went up about 7-8M/G city and acceleration was back to normal.
I can build a car from parts but I cant change plugs on my own car

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Old 09-14-2008, 10:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dishdude View Post
Sorry guys, I am with VW on this one. I don't think you are going to find a plug that gives you better performance or economy than the factory ones. With maufacturers trying to squeeze every MPG out of their engines, they are going to certainly put a lot of thought into what plugs they use in their engines.

That said, I don't think I would go more than around 60k on a set of plugs. They are cheap enough, and fairly easy to replace...(especially on the 2.4)

But when I do end up replacing them at 60k, I will use the factory plugs. Probably change the coolant, fuel filter, PCV valve and tranny fluid at that point too. I don't think the 2.4 has plug wires so I don't have to worry about that!
What plug does the OEM Saturn use? Now days premium plugs are used for extended maintenance intervals. Using your cheap copper or NGK plugs is not going to cut it. If you are not careful you may replace a premium long life plug with an inferior one.

Honda uses Iridium plugs as OEM in their V6. What does Saturn use in their 2.4L, 3.5L, and 3.6L engines?

There is no harm in using a better performing plug over the OEM one. Look outside the box and stop being so closed minded.

If you don't want to try them, then don't tell the person who used them that they don't work. Let's hear from the person who has the real life experience with the product.

cverstij when you have some observations if the Iridium plugs are better, or worse than the OEM plugs; let us know!

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Old 09-15-2008, 12:04 AM   #15
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by cverstij View Post
But Spacepope, in the words of VW: There is not an aftermarket plug made that will give you 1) improved mpg or 2) better performance vs the factory plug. Did you install the "high performance" plug wires and the air intake "Vortex" insert too?
And you fail to see the difference between swapping out nearly new OEM plugs and OEM plugs with 80k miles on them?

Go put some trips on your new set up and get back to us with some data.

...
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:47 AM   #16
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Did I ever say not to use Denso Iridium plugs. I actually have them in one of my cars (Mustang GT). I did not install them to increase mpg or performance, but to replace the original plugs (non-platinum) when they reached the recommended end-of-life. They are a good plug. Now, if you listen very closely---I said it was a waste of money to replace the practically new, extremely well made and highly recommended Delco Platinum plugs in your almost new Aura---thinking that Denso manufacturer hyperbole is God's given truth. Again, Denso Iridium plugs are very nice---and VERY EXPENSIVE. You will not be able to tell the difference between them and the original plugs. You will not get better mpg. Now for some other facts --- Masters Degree---Mechanical Engineering. Former Auto Mechanic. I rebuild cars for fun (including VW's, you have a problem with that?). I know my &%$T. Do you? Over the past 30+ years, I have used many different types of plugs in many different vehicles. If I had a dollar for every claim that a plug, engine add-on, oil additive, oil type (Mobile 1, Amazoil), etc would increase mpg, performace or make you more appealing to the opposite sex---I would be retired and living on an island in the South Pacific. As far putting new plugs in an old Dodge and getting 8 mpg better, perhaps doing some maintenance at 79K miles is not such a bad thing, huh? As far as complaining that the rear plugs on most front-wheel-drive V6 powered cars are hard to change, that's a real DUH, coming from somebody that has changed more than a few and the scars to prove it...

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Last edited by VWCarcrazy; 09-15-2008 at 10:01 AM..

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Old 09-15-2008, 10:17 AM   #17
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

By the way, the factory Delco spark plug in the 2007 Aura 3.5L V6 is #41-100 and is an Iridium plug, essentially equivilant to the Denso Iridium plug. Again, the Delco plug is a good plug and has always tested well.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Delco 41_100.gif (90.8 KB, 46 views)

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Old 09-15-2008, 01:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Spacepope, I was agreeing WITH you on my comments, not AGAINST you....

Also, for those of you who stated to go out and drive and report back with the results.....read the final line of my initial post.

VW: I don't have a 3.5L, I have the 3.6....my factory plugs were AC Delcraps. Thanks, but no thanks. The MAIN reason I changed out was to see if I could get rid of the rough idle that this car has out of the factory. Your experience may be exceptional to the mechanical community, but I wasn't asking for your's or anyone else's opinon. I was posting my experience with the car (which is what I thought this forum was for). As for working on VW's, those aren't really a normal, everyday car to work on anyway, correct (now that I asked a question, you can answer it)? Finally, on your statement about me complaining about a FWD V-6 being difficult to change plugs....IT IS MY FIRST EWD V-6!!!!! Read my previous posts!!! I am a CPA, so I don't know much about some of these things!!!!

Once again, I will keep you all posted on my experience with the plugs. Jeez, rough crowd.

Last edited by cverstij; 09-15-2008 at 01:20 PM..

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Old 09-15-2008, 01:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

Definitely let us know if that solves the rough idle.

In my experience, I can't think of any GM V6 engines that truly idled smooth.

Even some of their 4cyl engines idle more smoothly!

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Old 09-15-2008, 03:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: Changing the spark plugs

If you would re-read my comments, you will note that I said your 2007 XR has Delco Platium plugs. I just wanted to note that the XE 3.5L and 2.4L come with Delco Iridium plugs. There is virtually imperceptable difference between a new Platinum and Iridium plug, you might notice a difference after many miles. That is the benefit of Iridium over Platinum, longer life. But most people will not go 100K miles without replacing their plugs. You mentioned a rough idle on your XR. Did you check the removed plugs you removed for improper gap, or fouling, that could indicate the source of a rough idle? Hopefully you used anti-seize compound and torqued the new plugs to specs with a torque wrench when you installed them. If your car continues to have a rough idle, and it is still under warranty, you should return it to the dealer to check for other potential causes such as a fouled fuel filter, bad plug wires, injector or coil-pack issue. Another possibility can be the gas you are using. While unlikely, you might try a different Tier-1 gas station in your area. Now as to VW's (and I also own Fords, GM's and Chrysler's currently), you are correct in stating that VW's can be a different animal entirely. Personally, I enjoy working on the VW "old" Beetle and Porsche engines and driving them for recreation. I would hesitate to have one for a regular daily driver. They can be fussy cars and I much prefer American-made products. As far as AC Delco parts, I will buy them any day over most brands - they are not "crap". Most mechanics would agree that Delco means good quality at a reasonable cost. Your original comment cast dispersions on the design of GM products, V6's in particular as to spark plug positioning. Most V6 engines traversely mounted in front wheel drive cars have the same issue with near inaccessibility of the rear sparkplugs. Not much you can do about that, it is inherent in the design - no matter which manufacturer V6 you are talking about - they are all different levels of difficult. Actually, I find GM V6 engines to be above average for plug accessibility provided you use the proper tools (wear gloves, use flex and swivel joint socket extensions) and resolve yourself to accessing the rear plugs from the middle top rear of the engine after removing as much stuff (air intakes, etc) as you can and covering the top of the engine so you can crawl up there to get at the plugs. Others are quite correct that some V6 engines require removal of the motor mounts and "rotating" the engine forward to access the rear plugs (very common in some Ford products). Getting the spark plug wire boot off the plug without damaging it is often harder than removing the plugs. As far as CPA's, I never mix business and pleasure. Best luck with your new plugs, hope they solve the issue you were having.

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