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Old 03-05-2008, 12:41 AM   #1
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Default New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by 201

A new story entry has been added:

New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by 2010

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As another key element in its overall global strategy to improve fuel economy and reduce oil consumption and CO2 emissions, General Motors Chairman Rick Wagoner announced yesterday that GM will introduce a second-generation version of the GM Hybrid System with a new, more powerful lithium-ion battery.

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Old 03-05-2008, 12:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

Yay - BAS+.

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Old 03-06-2008, 10:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

Oh well here we go again, more talk talk from GM.....

OK, some questions for the more learned folks on the blog: 1.) Will the BAS-II system supplant the BAS-I system completely? 2.) Any news if this will be available sooner on the still yet to be released Aura/Malibu greenline hybrids? 3.) Any reason why the current US battery supplier wasn't up to the task? 4.) Will BAS-II actually be able to propel the vehicle on electricity alone, even for a few seconds, feet? (what a pathetic benchmark, I'm sorry even to ask it) 5.) There was a fabulous white paper floating around on the net on the BAS-I system from the SAE -- anyone find anything similar explaining BAS-II? 6.) Any news on the Hybrid-Two-Mode being ported over to any GM sedan platform within the next few years? 7.) Finally, any news on supplies of the basic BAS-I's greenlines being available anytime soon for 2008? To this day, I have only seen one Aura Greenline on the road. One.

--Sorry for all the questions. Any replies will be greatly appreciated.

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Old 03-06-2008, 10:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

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Originally Posted by hyperlexis View Post
Oh well here we go again, more talk talk from GM.....

OK, some questions for the more learned folks on the blog: 1.) Will the BAS-II system supplant the BAS-I system completely? 2.) Any news if this will be available sooner on the still yet to be released Aura/Malibu greenline hybrids? 3.) Any reason why the current US battery supplier wasn't up to the task? 4.) Will BAS-II actually be able to propel the vehicle on electricity alone, even for a few seconds, feet? (what a pathetic benchmark, I'm sorry even to ask it) 5.) There was a fabulous white paper floating around on the net on the BAS-I system from the SAE -- anyone find anything similar explaining BAS-II? 6.) Any news on the Hybrid-Two-Mode being ported over to any GM sedan platform within the next few years? 7.) Finally, any news on supplies of the basic BAS-I's greenlines being available anytime soon for 2008? To this day, I have only seen one Aura Greenline on the road. One.

--Sorry for all the questions. Any replies will be greatly appreciated.

1) Yes
2) No
3) Lack of automotive-scale production capacity
4) Yes
5) Not yet
6) Hybrid EpsilonIIs and Zetas are planned
7) Nothing recent

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Old 03-06-2008, 11:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

Thanks -- I just read the post on the battery supplier Cobasys. That is scary!!!!!!!! I would think that GM would have just bought them up and taken over production of the batteries themselves in order to get these greenlines out the door as fast as possible. It's really turning out to be a PR disaster. And for the few people that do own the greenlines, what would happen if the need a battery replacement (I read some of the first generation BAS-I battery packs were defective) and the battery supplier no longer is producing the units???? This is not good.

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Old 03-06-2008, 11:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

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Originally Posted by hyperlexis View Post
Thanks -- I just read the post on the battery supplier Cobasys. That is scary!!!!!!!! I would think that GM would have just bought them up and taken over production of the batteries themselves in order to get these greenlines out the door as fast as possible. It's really turning out to be a PR disaster. And for the few people that do own the greenlines, what would happen if the need a battery replacement (I read some of the first generation BAS-I battery packs were defective) and the battery supplier no longer is producing the units???? This is not good.
GM isn't in the position to go buying up companies that aren't core-function related. A123Systems supplies power tool batteries and other things non-automotive related. It's more cost-effective (the name of the corporate game) to just contract with them and buy the batteries.

Just like any other portion of the car, there's a good 10 years (or however long the requirement is) worth of replacement parts.

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Old 03-06-2008, 11:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

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GM isn't in the position to go buying up companies that aren't core-function related. A123Systems supplies power tool batteries and other things non-automotive related. It's more cost-effective (the name of the corporate game) to just contract with them and buy the batteries.

Just like any other portion of the car, there's a good 10 years (or however long the requirement is) worth of replacement parts.
So you are saying that Cobasys has already supplied GM with a stockpile of 10 years worth of batteries when they can't even seem to produce one meager production year's worth of product? I truly doubt that. A company that is described as "essentially out of money" in my experience is usually on the way to bankruptcy protection or complete liquidation.

So GM will either have to 1.) buy or partner with the division making their greenline batteries to keep the manufacturer afloat; 2.) somehow license and magically produce the units themselves in a GM plant; 3.) buy retrofit batteries from another, more stable battery manufacturer (i.e., Matsu****a); or 4.) continue this debacle, continue bullsh-tting the public and dealers, and, wink-wink, just not produce any hybrids aside from those put on display in advertisements and at auto shows....

I'm afraid we are seeing GM play out option #4.

I saw the plug in Prius at the Chicago auto show. It will likely be at dealers in the next few model years. GM really needs to wake the hell up. It's apparently letting a failing battery company stymie all its hybrid sedan plans. Even the most basic, mild hybrid BAS-I versions. If this mess was happening at a Japanese auto manufacturer, the execs involved would likely have already been fired (or killed...). Tsk, tsk, GM.

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Old 03-06-2008, 12:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperlexis View Post
So you are saying that Cobasys has already supplied GM with a stockpile of 10 years worth of batteries when they can't even seem to produce one meager production year's worth of product? I truly doubt that. A company that is described as "essentially out of money" in my experience is usually on the way to bankruptcy protection or complete liquidation.

So GM will either have to 1.) buy or partner with the division making their greenline batteries to keep the manufacturer afloat; 2.) somehow license and magically produce the units themselves in a GM plant; 3.) buy retrofit batteries from another, more stable battery manufacturer (i.e., Matsu****a); or 4.) continue this debacle, continue bullsh-tting the public and dealers, and, wink-wink, just not produce any hybrids aside from those put on display in advertisements and at auto shows....

I'm afraid we are seeing GM play out option #4.

I saw the plug in Prius at the Chicago auto show. It will likely be at dealers in the next few model years. GM really needs to wake the hell up. It's apparently letting a failing battery company stymie all its hybrid sedan plans. Even the most basic, mild hybrid BAS-I versions. If this mess was happening at a Japanese auto manufacturer, the execs involved would likely have already been fired (or killed...). Tsk, tsk, GM.
Sorry, yeah, Cobasys, not A123... GM is already contracting with Hitachi/Matsu*****a-Panasonic for the new batteries. Having everything done basically in-house (i.e. keiretsu-style) would be nice, but U.S. companies aren't set up that way.

You're seeing #1 when it comes to alternative fuels (see Coskata) and finally #3 when it comes to BAS batteries. You can't blame GM for trying to contract with a U.S. company. Unfortunately, in doing so, they got burned.

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Old 03-06-2008, 12:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

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Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
Sorry, yeah, Cobasys, not A123... GM is already contracting with Hitachi/Matsu*****a-Panasonic for the new batteries. Having everything done basically in-house (i.e. keiretsu-style) would be nice, but U.S. companies aren't set up that way.

You're seeing #1 when it comes to alternative fuels (see Coskata) and finally #3 when it comes to BAS batteries. You can't blame GM for trying to contract with a U.S. company. Unfortunately, in doing so, they got burned.
Yeah, I would hope that they can return to using a US supplier(s) but they must do something to keep this viable, and do so quickly. Ford as far as I know, uses Japanese batteries, and their basic hybrid system itself is partially licensed from Toyota.

And the tax breaks to the oil companies continue....... Ughhhh, crazy.

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Old 03-06-2008, 12:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: New Low-Cost GM Hybrid System Previewed in Geneva, Will Debut in North America by

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Ford as far as I know, uses Japanese batteries, and their basic hybrid system itself is partially licensed from Toyota.
To the detriment of Ford, they use Toyota's battery supplier. They have a licensing agreement on the hybrid design to avoid patent infringement. Ford's design was all done in-house.

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