SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Ion > Ion Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-17-2008, 06:54 PM   #1
Maximaguy2002
New Member
Maximaguy2002 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3

2003 ION-3 Sedan
Attention Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Has anyone looked into how to set up a case or a lawsuit about the problems we are having with our Ions. I recently just bought an Ion 3 and had a battle with the dealer over things that were wrong with the car when I bought it. I have just now joined the No crank/No start club and I have about had it with this car. And Ive only had it six months. My 1st saturn SL1 was the greatest car ever.. and now I think Ive bought a rubbermaid money trap. Please tell me your input. I hope I havent upset anyone.. but this is my honest opinion.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Maximaguy2002's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Maximaguy2002 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Maximaguy2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 01-17-2008, 07:33 PM   #2
davidsky
Master Member
davidsky will become famous soon enoughdavidsky will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,976
 

2005 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

For the most part the passlock issue happened within 20K miles and was fixed quickly under warranty. No use for a lawsuit.
Your car is 5 years old. Are you sure the battery isn't just dead?

...
Member of the Crank Window Club

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to davidsky's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help davidsky reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
davidsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 07:51 PM   #3
SaturnSdn
Master Member
SaturnSdn will become famous soon enoughSaturnSdn will become famous soon enough
 
SaturnSdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Az
Posts: 3,306
 

2007 ION-3 Sedan
2007 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Mad.........?, mad about what. How can I be mad when I can't stop laughing.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to SaturnSdn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help SaturnSdn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
SaturnSdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 08:08 PM   #4
Maximaguy2002
New Member
Maximaguy2002 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3

2003 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

No.. The battery is fine. Everything checks out perfect, and the codes are there. Its just now replacing the switch, and hopefully this will fix the problem. The car only has 53,000 miles it seems very low to start having screw ups with something like this.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Maximaguy2002's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Maximaguy2002 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Maximaguy2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 09:00 PM   #5
CarNut
Advanced Member
CarNut is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 533
 

2004 ION Red Line
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

If you're paying this out of pocket, ask the dealer to disable VATS (vehicle anti-teft system) instead. In theory they should be able to do it. I'd try it myself, but I'm still under warranty and I'm sure they'd be reluctant. Who needs VATS anyway? Ions are'nt exactly popular so they probably won't make any frequently stolen lists.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to CarNut's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help CarNut reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
CarNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 09:20 PM   #6
twosaturns
Master Member
twosaturns will become famous soon enough
 
twosaturns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,055
 
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximaguy2002 View Post
No.. The battery is fine. Everything checks out perfect, and the codes are there. Its just now replacing the switch, and hopefully this will fix the problem. The car only has 53,000 miles it seems very low to start having screw ups with something like this.
money trap? recently purchased? you bought a USED CAR, and you want to start a class action lawsuit?


whatever.

...
for the first time in 8 years, I don't own a saturn.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to twosaturns's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help twosaturns reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
twosaturns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 10:00 PM   #7
Chevy_Rules
Member
Chevy_Rules is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 456

2007 AURA XR
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

This country is way to freaking sue happy. You bought a used car. Most likely traded in for the problems you have experienced. There will only be a basis for a lawsuit if GM was outright ignoring the problem( Note: I said GM, not the dealer).

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Chevy_Rules's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Chevy_Rules reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Chevy_Rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 10:59 PM   #8
Maximaguy2002
New Member
Maximaguy2002 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3

2003 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Well.. In response to all of the above.. Thank you for the ones who actually thought about the issue. The part is 35 bucks, The situation can be fixed by me.. but I just wanted to know what the response is for the people who have paid 300.00 or more b/c they didnt know what was happening.. in not only the Ions, but every other car GM has put the Passlock III system in. I know I bought a used car.. and I expect stuff to happen. But if you go to Search on this forum and type Ion Passlock or just google it.. all you get is bad reactions.. and post and blogs about how bad this system is with out some additional work. Iam not sue happy.. and I don't hate saturn. I am upset that almost half the people who own a saturn has had this problem, and many have been take to the cleaners. And I know if mine goes into the shop.. I can bet the same thing will happen. The simple fact is this: there is a TSB for this issue that both my local dealership and the Spring Hill offices are pretending to know nothing about - Saturn knows about it, but is evading the issue under any sort of probing. This is their fault - a manufacturing defect - and it stands to reason that it should be their responsibility to fix it. So read some other peoples post before you blow out a response. It will make you think a little.

*Btw.. guys.. really.. when someone ask a question.. is it a must to make a joke.. or be a dick about the question, suggestion, or comment?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Maximaguy2002's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Maximaguy2002 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Maximaguy2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 11:04 PM   #9
F-Bobby
Member
F-Bobby is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 113
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

just get a new ignition switch and stop whining. for the love of god. People with VTis that blow up when they are chaning lanes at 70 and almost get killed have a reason to file a law suit, just cause you cant start your car for 10 minutes in the morning doesnt give you a reason.

...
Bobby H.
Saturn Tech
CVT (VTI if you prefer) and Hybrid Specialist (only cause no one else wants to go near them)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to F-Bobby's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help F-Bobby reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
F-Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 01:02 AM   #10
QCs_R4_Girls
Member
QCs_R4_Girls is on a distinguished road
 
QCs_R4_Girls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 175

2006 ION-2 Quad Coupe
1998 SL2
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Learn to replace the ignition switch yourself and you'll save yourself the hassle of paying a service tech $135 each time it needs to be replaced.

...
"Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph."

***
3 - 2006 Ion Quad Coupe 2.2L, Manual, Black
2 - 2002 SC2, Manual, Silver
1 - 1998 SL2, Manual, Blue

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to QCs_R4_Girls's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help QCs_R4_Girls reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
QCs_R4_Girls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 02:45 AM   #11
SaturnManiac
Master Member
SaturnManiac is on a distinguished road
 
SaturnManiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Near VA Border
Posts: 3,855
 
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy_Rules View Post
This country is way to freaking sue happy.
I was about to say the same thing. People of this generation are too quick to want a free hand-out everytime something goes wrong. (No offense to the original poster, this is just a problem in general.) Whatever happened to people just dealing with life's problems...life is going to be hard. I mean, look at all the business owners that lose their business and all the money they put into it...who can they sue to get their money back...no one.

Stuff happens, just deal with it and move on. Nothing is perfect and no one is...this is almost why I'm so tired of all the laws and crap we have to protect morons...for example...the idiot that sued McDonald's cause they were too dumb to know coffee is hot....my gawd. And now that dumb person probably has enough money so they never have to work again! I guess being dumb pays more than being smart these days.

I can understand suing someone for a logical reason...but for something minor or something totally dumb...come on now...

And I definitely agree with F-Bobby about the VTis and the statement in general.

...
R.I.P. - My 1996 Saturn SL2, "Psycho" - 7/95-2/17/06

R.I.P. - My 2000 Saturn SL2, "Sexy" - 11/24/99-8/05/08

If you're a car begging for your life, wouldn't you want someone to add fluids?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to SaturnManiac's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help SaturnManiac reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
SaturnManiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 10:50 AM   #12
twosaturns
Master Member
twosaturns will become famous soon enough
 
twosaturns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,055
 
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximaguy2002 View Post
So read some other peoples post before you blow out a response. It will make you think a little.

*Btw.. guys.. really.. when someone ask a question.. is it a must to make a joke.. or be a dick about the question, suggestion, or comment?
your original post was vague and inflammatory, and the problem is no where near as big as you imagine it to be. get over yourself.

...
for the first time in 8 years, I don't own a saturn.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to twosaturns's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help twosaturns reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
twosaturns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 10:52 AM   #13
QCs_R4_Girls
Member
QCs_R4_Girls is on a distinguished road
 
QCs_R4_Girls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 175

2006 ION-2 Quad Coupe
1998 SL2
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Alright, not to be a dick about this by any means, but there's a couple clarifications that need to be made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximaguy2002 View Post
I know I bought a used car.. and I expect stuff to happen. But if you go to Search on this forum and type Ion Passlock or just google it.. all you get is bad reactions.. and post and blogs about how bad this system is with out some additional work.
Omg, a used car with problems? I can be completely insensitive to this because 1) I bought my Ion brand new off the truck and I've had to replace my ignition switch 3 times... and its an 06. And 2) There's tons of info all over the web about this problem, and any amount of research about an Ion would surely bring this problem up. (Hence the reason I learned to do it myself) It's not a surprise by any means. And if it was that much of a problem, find another car to buy. No one's forcing you to buy a Saturn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximaguy2002 View Post
The simple fact is this: there is a TSB for this issue that both my local dealership and the Spring Hill offices are pretending to know nothing about - Saturn knows about it, but is evading the issue under any sort of probing. This is their fault - a manufacturing defect - and it stands to reason that it should be their responsibility to fix it.
Everyone needs to stop throwing around the phrase TSB like it's some kind of cure-all for a car. A TSB is exactly that: A Technical Service Bulletin, not to be confused with a Safety Recall. A recall would be any work that is provided on the car by the manufacturer at no charge to the owner. Not all TSBs are recalls. In fact, a TSB is merely an aid in solving problems and providing up to date repair information. TSBs are put out to update repairs in the FSM instead of reprinting an entire book. They can also outline easier fixes to established problems. The only reason why any work would be done on the car for free was if it was still under warrenty.

(Also Saturn didn't manufacture the Passlock system)

...
"Remember folks, street lights timed for 35 mph are also timed for 70 mph."

***
3 - 2006 Ion Quad Coupe 2.2L, Manual, Black
2 - 2002 SC2, Manual, Silver
1 - 1998 SL2, Manual, Blue

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to QCs_R4_Girls's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help QCs_R4_Girls reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
QCs_R4_Girls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 02:06 PM   #14
nababbo
Member
nababbo is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 478

2004 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Man, I really understand your frustration. Don't mind these grumpies....you say something bad about Saturn they take it like you offended their mom or something.

Since this is such a common issue I do believe Saturn, it they were serious people, should fix it for free. However, Toyota or Honda or any one of them would do exactly like Saturn. These are economy cars, they don't cost much and occasionally things go wrong so you just gotta fix it yourself.

If you want a company to actually stand behind a car then you need to buy in a different segment, like a Land Rover, BMW, Benz, Porsche, Lexus.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to nababbo's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help nababbo reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
nababbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 06:35 PM   #15
F-Bobby
Member
F-Bobby is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 113
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

HA HA buy a land rover for reliability? Thats like buying a Geo to go fast.

And if not the he ofended saturn. Saturn pays my bills, thats all. I dont like these cars all that much, but i fix them and i liek to help people fix them, so that they dont get raped by dealers on stuff they dont need. But saying you want to sue the company because of an ignition switch problem is just plain dumb.

...
Bobby H.
Saturn Tech
CVT (VTI if you prefer) and Hybrid Specialist (only cause no one else wants to go near them)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to F-Bobby's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help F-Bobby reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
F-Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 03:32 AM   #16
Meatonn
Member
Meatonn will become famous soon enough
 
Meatonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 102

2007 AURA XE
Idea Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnManiac View Post
I was about to say the same thing. People of this generation are too quick to want a free hand-out everytime something goes wrong. (No offense to the original poster, this is just a problem in general.) Whatever happened to people just dealing with life's problems...life is going to be hard. I mean, look at all the business owners that lose their business and all the money they put into it...who can they sue to get their money back...no one.

Stuff happens, just deal with it and move on. Nothing is perfect and no one is...this is almost why I'm so tired of all the laws and crap we have to protect morons...for example...the idiot that sued McDonald's cause they were too dumb to know coffee is hot....my gawd. And now that dumb person probably has enough money so they never have to work again! I guess being dumb pays more than being smart these days.

I can understand suing someone for a logical reason...but for something minor or something totally dumb...come on now...

And I definitely agree with F-Bobby about the VTis and the statement in general.
1.: I agree that cars break, and warrantys only last so long, and if you buy a car out of warranty you have no right to go back to the dealer demand that they repair an out of warranty car for free unless there is a recall.

2.: As for the McDonald's coffee case, it isn't that simple. That specific McDonald's location had been repeatedly warned by McDonald's Corporate that they were keeping their coffee much too hot. The woman who bought and spilled the coffee ended up with at least second degree burns (blisters) on her inner thighs and genitals. There is no doubt that she was partly to blame for putting the cup where she did, but McDonald's was serving coffee unreasonably hot and as I remember served it to without the lid put on all the way. What most people never heard about was the fact that after the jury awarded the high verdict, the judge reduced the award considerably. The woman needed skin grafts as I recall.

My primary point in discussing this is the fact that limits on jury verdicts are a bad idea. I don't know how many of you remember the Ford Pinto. Ford discovered a design flaw that could end up causing the gas tank to leak and catch fire in a fairly moderate rear end accident. The cost to recall the cars and fix all the cars was estimated to be more expensive than just fixing the problem on the cars being built from that point forward and paying for the deaths and injuries from any accidents that caught fire because of the defect. A jury should be able to award a verdict that may seem much to high for the injury created in order to punish a company the size of Ford or GM or such when it makes a decision that human life is not worth protecting. It must be made to feel the pain of its decisions. After all, a company like GM won't even feel a verdict limited to a few hundred thousand dollars.

Enough of my soap box.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Meatonn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Meatonn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Meatonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 06:53 PM   #17
Mic_
Junior Member
Mic_ is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 32
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-Bobby View Post
just get a new ignition switch and stop whining. for the love of god. People with VTis that blow up when they are chaning lanes at 70 and almost get killed have a reason to file a law suit, just cause you cant start your car for 10 minutes in the morning doesnt give you a reason.
x2 new ignition switch and be done with it.

...
2004 Ion 2.2L (L61)
2009 Vue XR

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Mic_'s Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Mic_ reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Mic_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 09:29 PM   #18
SaturnSdn
Master Member
SaturnSdn will become famous soon enoughSaturnSdn will become famous soon enough
 
SaturnSdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Az
Posts: 3,306
 

2007 ION-3 Sedan
2007 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

White wine ......... red ? or just cheeeeeese.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to SaturnSdn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help SaturnSdn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
SaturnSdn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 11:25 PM   #19
AuraDrvr89
Master Member
AuraDrvr89 will become famous soon enough
 
AuraDrvr89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Derby, NY
Posts: 2,384
 

2007 AURA XE
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Wow..

I just had to replace an Ignition Module and Coil Tower in my Ion...

..You think that I could start a Class Action lawsuit too?

I've only had my Ion 6 months.

Ridiculous.





I know it's hard to believe something could actually go wrong with a used car.

Get a life

...
-Joel

Now: 2009 BMW 328i xDrive, Monaco Blue Metallic
Then:
2007 SATURN AURA XE,Cream White
2004 Saturn Ion 3 Special Edition Sedan, Onyx Black

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to AuraDrvr89's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help AuraDrvr89 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
AuraDrvr89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 10:21 PM   #20
lgodave
Senior Member
lgodave will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 1,649
 

2003 ION-3 Sedan
Default Re: Class Action Lawsuit about the Saturn Ion "No Crank/No start" Issue?

Just thought I'd post that my 2003 ION-3 which I've owned since new is over 52,000 miles and is currently at Saturn for a Second Ignition Switch and Blower Motor. Should have it back Saturday. (Got to take home a Saturn Relay like Chevy Uplander rental for the night while they do the work.)

Had the original Switch replaced in 2005 at around 19,000 miles after a very low sub-zero cold snap caused a service vehicle/no start issue. The blower motor got replaced that same year when the "Vent Doors" got jammed up (loose insulation), they swapped it out because it was squeaking/squawking at lower speeds.

From what Saturn told me tonight the "new" Ignition Switch is an improved version over the versions used in 03 and 05. He claims it's tested to "80 below" and shouldn't provide the conditions I've recently had.

For those with the Service Vehicle/No Start problem... I was told to try heating the "left side" of the Steering column (opposite of the ignition switch) to try and get the passlock system to recognize the key. That wasn't working... At -14F I wasn't interested in taking much more time trying to warm the locks when I was freezing to death... So I got the Spare Key from the House and tried that. It fired right up when the "old" key wouldn't do the trick.

The Service Manager suggested the "new" key would have allowed for a better contact. I would personally recommend trying this "fix" if a spare key is available OR if you are expecting a cold snap to carry a "newer" key with you. I lucked out when traveling in Northern WI last week. VERY COLD temps around the -14F like when the switch failed on me a few days later. I wasn't carrying a spare key OR have easy access to Service but it started for me...

Hopefully the No Start will be history for me as of Saturday. Probably going to have the Battery checked out soon too. It is technically over 5 years now... so I should plan for a replacement for certain by FALL 2008.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to lgodave's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help lgodave reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
lgodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Video: New Saturn "Pundits" Commercial Discusses Class-Leading Fuel Economy and Side- Charlie General Saturn Discussion 3 03-20-2009 03:52 PM
Class Action Lawsuit Over VTI??? perfectionlawn Vue Tech 0 10-18-2007 07:20 PM
Class Action Lawsuit rayw1199 L-Series General 9 08-16-2005 12:44 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.